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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 27 seconds ago by blueberryjohnson
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17 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 13866 posts in this topic. You are on page 128 of 278.
#6351 1 year ago
Quoted from Bingovit:

Statements like this disgust me.

Brussel sprouts disgust me.

#6352 1 year ago

"Generally" production following a prototype testing results in reduced features rather than added features. Although there can be exceptions, when adding stuff another prototype usually results.

#6353 1 year ago

Did he say if the countdown clock in the employee break room has been plugged in again?

Is there a countdown clock for the countdown clock?

10
#6354 1 year ago

well after that summary cant wait to hear it from Robert himself. i also predict deeproot is going to turn into another homepin. few people are going to want to buy a pinball from such a negative company.

#6355 1 year ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

From my point of view, it's patently obvious that JPop is both a terrible art director and things went badly wrong for you.
The stuff he had you do stands out like a sore thumb as being way below the calibre of any of your other work - pinball or other. The colour work - no offense - is bad, quite apart from the design direction.
Also, his version of Houdini .... god that was hideous. Matt Andrews then goes and does a very decent package for TNA immediately afterwards.
I don't understand why people think JPop is some kind of god in this respect. He isn't.
Moreover he repeatedly tried to pass off artists' work as his own, including yours.

Ok, now Dave, I have to disagree, the Jpop Houdini art was much better and TNA's art reveal kicked off a shitstorm on here, and rightfullly so..

#6356 1 year ago

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt there talk at some point where there was supposed to be 3 machines released at the same time? I believe it came up around the zidware reparations discussion.

So anyway, if this did in fact happen why are we not seeing the other two machines? Clearly DR has no problems showing prototypes so I'd really like to see where AIW is right now!

#6357 1 year ago

A few messages back:
Deeproot has 21 games in design. 13 are 50% and the rest are 15%.

So it appears RAZA was the only one complete enough to get public play, so thats the one they brought. Maybe by March two more will be ready and maybe AIW with be one of them. Lots of maybes.

Quoted from CLEllison:

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt there talk at some point where there was supposed to be 3 machines released at the same time? I believe it came up around the zidware reparations discussion.
So anyway, if this did in fact happen why are we not seeing the other two machines? Clearly DR has no problems showing prototypes so I'd really like to see where AIW is right now!

#6358 1 year ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

A few messages back:
Deeproot has 21 games in design. 13 are 50% and the rest are 15%.
So it appears RAZA was the only one complete enough to get public play, so thats the one they brought. Maybe by March two more will be ready and maybe AIW with be one of them. Lots of maybes.

Since RAZA doesn’t show any sign of being built with some common or reusable components I don’t see the point of developing 21 games in parallel.

The market isn’t wide enough to release this many games without getting them to compete with each other.

And unless they have 1000 people in a factory ready to bulld in parallel there isn’t much point in having them ready to shoot.

#6359 1 year ago

Been watching this crapfest that is deeproot pinball unfold from afar, but since I logged in to upvote ZombieYeti (thank you Mr. Packer, you are a class act!) I thought I'd share an observation

Quoted from rubberducks:

I don't understand why people think JPop is some kind of god in this respect. He isn't.

Well, JPop thinks himself as some kind of... something. From the recent TWIP interview where he tries to validate his idea process by comparisons to Nikola Tesla and Leonardo da Vinci:

I do not use technology to draw my designs, ramps, flow. I do that by hand like Leonardo...

so this is an example of John Popadiuk misusing words he doesn't understand (technology) to spin a tale of how smart/insightful he is.

The pencil and yellow pad are simply Jpop's technology of choice for part of his idea process. Please note, I will never call what he does a creative process, because everything he does relies on others to be created.

But if by technology Popadiuk meant computers, touchscreens, etc., maybe he doesn't realize those tools were NOT available in the 15th and 16th centuries... And if the were, the forward thinking Leonardo would certainly have embraced and used them.

#6360 1 year ago

If they got rid of the ramp and Jpop it might help improve the prototype.

14
#6361 1 year ago

So if Pinside is a sewer to Robert then that makes us all.....?

RizzoTheRat (resized).jpg
#6362 1 year ago

Hopefully we’ll at least get better quality playfields out of this. Robert sounded awfully confident in their quality while putting down other manufacturers. That’s something that surely needs improvement.

#6363 1 year ago
Quoted from wesman:

So if Pinside is a sewer to Robert then that makes us all.....?

Garbage collectors that might still buy his games.

#6364 1 year ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

Just look what Haggis did in only a year.

And they used an off the shelf board set. Deeproot will not be.

22
#6365 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

He's not wrong. I've never seen a bigger collection of people who seem to hate pinball on a pinball forum.

I don't think it's Deeproot people dislike as much as they do Robert and the way he goes about things.

#6366 1 year ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

I don't think it's Deeproot people dislike as much as they do Robert and the way he goes about things.

They would have had a better shot if it was somebody besides Robert, and no Jpop. Two strikes to start with.

#6367 1 year ago

WTB: Three green triangles.

#6368 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Garbage collectors that might still buy his games.

It's almost as if he's trying deliberately to help people forget the issues they might have with JPop, by being the biggest, most unlikable and obnoxious nob he can be. Is he trying to win an award or something?

When he was on here, I thought things were rough, but this interview really makes it difficult for me to want to consider a game from his company, past a few bucks in.

#6369 1 year ago

I haven't been able to follow this thread but I just listened to the interview and I don't see any point in "waiting for deeproot" anymore. I went from having no expectations to expecting the worst.

Edit: I think kaneda failed pretty hard in pressing him when he dodged questions. He clearly wanted to stay friendly with the guy.

#6370 1 year ago
Quoted from wesman:

It's almost as if he's trying deliberately to help people forget the issues they might have with JPop, by being the biggest, most unlikable and obnoxious nob he can be. Is he trying to win an award or something?

Perhaps he is trying to make himself and the rest of us forget his own issues he had with J-pop, and perhaps some of the other promises made.

Quoted from deeproot:

We had skin in the game at one point, but no longer. Both Popadiuk and Marsh violated our NDA agreements and have defamed, misrepresented our efforts to have a very different result.

#6371 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Perhaps he is trying to make himself and the rest of us forget his own issues he had with J-pop, and perhaps some of the other promises made.

Christ, he's got beef with Steve Marsh too? Steve's a teddy bear!!

Is there anybody this guy won't get in the ring with?

#6372 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Is there anybody this guy won't get in the ring with?

If you can take a deeproot beatdown, then they may have a position for you.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/deeproot-tech-job-postings

#6373 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

If Robert allows small batches of games to be built on demand, that would be an innovation and better than Stern. Stern is so big that their run sizes are bigger and it takes them awhile to switchover between titles. The production schedule is more rigid

No. Stern has switchovers nailed down. The reason they build larger batches is for economies of scale not because they are too rigid. Parts have lead times... they have minimum volumes...they get cheaper as you buy more at the same time... you lose production output as you switchover. Stern is highly optimized in they can cutover and be ramping to full speed with minimal productivity loss because they have their production processes and funnels so well defined. Thats why games have minimum runs... not because of size holding them back.

The “small batch” model doesn’t work because its too inefficient and increases per unit costs. You can make it work... you will just have much higher costs per unit, much higher overhead, much lower throughput, and thus much higher prices.

#6374 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

As Robert Mueller's interview is pertinent to this thread, I will post some highlights. There are plenty of interesting points and comments made, so listen for yourself.
* Playfield will be made of wood and it can take sledge hammer without enduring damage.
* Deeproot will encounter the same manufacturing challenges as everyone else.
* There won't be any great initial awareness that the product is innovative. When you see all of their games and you open them up and see how they go together, you'll see the innovation more clearly. (oh brother).
* Customer may have options for playfield art, cabinet art and customization of the game.
* Robert is waiting to set game pricing until before launch. Won't price it at a discount. Robert maintains he will provide value, but not all at the Stern pro price.
* There may be three levels of every game released. Undefined what this means. (Robert implies that certain models with have more value and indicates more mechs or more software for a higher price and a version without that is lower cost). They will be pricing some games below market and some above market (I see Robert releasing models in all ranges between $4k - $15k).
* Robert says that he does not read Pinside anymore because it is too negative. "Pinside is a sewer" and any feedback is worthless and goes right in the trash. (He said this three times but I wonder why he can't get find any constructive feedback here. He is right that Pinside can be negative, but there is plenty of great observations and analysis from my armchair perspective. His comment is suspect since the stated reason for going to Houston was to get feedback).
* Deeproot has 21 games in design. 13 are 50% and the rest are 15%.
* All games will be different from one another in style, content, target demographic, skill level.
* Zombie Yeti's version of "artwork on Raza was a hack job".
* "Stern is weak".

The "hack job" quote, are you sure that is not out of context?

I could have sworn he was talking about the final art that is on RAZA production game being a "hack job" in that it is put together from several artists... it needed some major alterations to incorporate rules and theme/story.

I didn't hear it as him saying ZY art itself was a hack job at all. ? .... (except maybe in the way it was given vague direction at zidware?)

Maybe we better listen again.... :-

#6375 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

No. Stern has switchovers nailed down. The reason they build larger batches is for economies of scale not because they are too rigid. Parts have lead times... they have minimum volumes...they get cheaper as you buy more at the same time... you lose production output as you switchover. Stern is highly optimized in they can cutover and be ramping to full speed with minimal productivity loss because they have their production processes and funnels so well defined. Thats why games have minimum runs... not because of size holding them back.
The “small batch” model doesn’t work because its too inefficient and increases per unit costs. You can make it work... you will just have much higher costs per unit, much higher overhead, much lower throughput, and thus much higher prices.

Yeah I don't get this line of attack at all.

I hear Primus was on and off the line in one day. All 100 copies. Stern's biggest "innovation," besides managing to stay in business in the late 90s through the 2000s, was flexibility on the line. At W/B, when a game was done, it was done, which was why they left thousands of MM and AFM sales on the table.

#6376 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Christ, he's got beef with Steve Marsh too? Steve's a teddy bear!!
Is there anybody this guy won't get in the ring with?

Steve's a great guy and i'm pretty confident he ain't worried one iota about some supposed NDA violation. LOL

#6377 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

If you can take a deeproot beatdown, then they may have a position for you.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/deeproot-tech-job-postings

Oh come on, everybody knows I'm angling for a job at Stern.

Though Texas BBQ sounds way more attractive than Chicago winters.

13
#6378 1 year ago

I'm mostly ambivalent about the Jpop fiasco, but Robert makes it insanely difficult to root for the company.

#6379 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Oh come on, everybody knows I'm angling for a job at Stern.
Though Texas BBQ sounds way more attractive than Chicago winters.

You know it is Levi! Come on down brother

16
#6380 1 year ago
Quoted from aingide:

I'm mostly ambivalent about the Jpop fiasco, but Robert makes it insanely difficult to root for the company.

Would you say you have to dig deep to root for them?

.......I'll see myself out.

#6381 1 year ago

What's the point of doing an interview with Chris? His audience is the "Pinside sewer". He did steal that line from Steve Ritchie.

Not sure why he's trying to one up the Homepin guy?

#6382 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Brussel sprouts disgust me.

"I have every right to be offended!! ... and you have every right to really not care!"

#6383 1 year ago

Deeproot continues to be a dumpster fire at all levels and the gameplay videos look horrendous. But I am looking forward to the final product it can only go up from here (?)

10
#6384 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

What's the point of doing an interview with Chris? His audience is the "Pinside sewer". He did steal that line from Steve Ritchie.
Not sure why he's trying to one up the Homepin guy?

The point was obvious: Let Mr. "no holds barred tell it like it is" lob softball questions at Rob so he can spew his usual unadulterated bullshit for two hours, without the usual pushback he got when he was doing the same thing on Pinside.

For Chris it was also a no brainer- land his first guest in forever who is actually (kind of) still in the industry and will get some people who have tuned out to tune back in. Chris can always turn on him and pull a Wonka later if he needs to drum up some fresh interest and a new angle but for now giving Robert a friendly forum was his best play and the biggest pop he's had in ages.

Seems like it worked out for everybody but doesn't really "move the needle" as everybody likes to say. Nothing has changed in perception or reality beyond the fabulous PROTOTYPE unveiling and I doubt any minds have been changed either.

#6385 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

That would be truly amazing if the top layer is also made out of wood with some kind of clearcoat.
If the top layer is some kind of thick plastic, then it is not entirely made out of wood.

Theme has killed almost every game from the last 5 years for me. And no, I won't pay money to play them. However, if it is free somewhere, I will play a couple balls to see how it shoots.
If a collector has only those at is place, I will not go out of my way to visit just to play them.

Doesn't sound like you actually like pinball...

#6386 1 year ago
Quoted from valgalder:

Doesn't sound like you actually like pinball...

How's that? I play almost every day and late into the night.

Maybe I just don't like your pinball?

It's like food, I eat what I like. If somebody else wants to eat dog food, that's up to them.

#6387 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

How's that? I play almost every day and late into the night.
Maybe I just don't like your pinball?
It's like food, I eat what I like. If somebody else wants to eat dog food, that's up to them.

We all know all you eat are burritos.

Your house must smell great!

#6388 1 year ago

As a matter of fact I just had a chorizo, huevos, papas burrito and it was muy bueno.

#6389 1 year ago
Quoted from wesman:

So if Pinside is a sewer to Robert then that makes us all.....?[quoted image]

“PINRATS” Chewing on “Underwhelming Prototypes!”

#6390 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Deep root aren’t trying to go for the “plucky upstart” thing that worked for spooky. That would be so far beneath them.
They are going for - embracing in fact! - the “obnoxious asshole” thing - and sticking the landing!! They are eliciting the exact response they are looking for. This is all part of their brilliant marketing plan. Not sure why you’d hold it against pinside for giving them exactly what they want.

yep, being an a-hole worked for Mike too.
Alienate and lie to your customers.... marketing genius.

#6391 1 year ago
Quoted from frankmac:

“PINRATS” Chewing on “Underwhelming Prototypes!”

Weak Ass Flippers!

Weak Ass Flippers (resized).png

10
#6392 1 year ago
3h0gry (resized).jpg
#6394 1 year ago

A couple of takeaways I got from the podcast. (Besides that fact that he really, really hates Pinside.)

Robert really needs to hire someone as a spokesperson and disappear behind the scenes. I thought the interview would find him more humble but it was the opposite. At times he came off angry and defensive. As others have mentioned, the guy is really difficult to root for.

He mentioned a licensed game that's in the pipeline after saying what a huge fan he is of Battlestar Galactica. Hmmmmmm

I wish Deeproot well. Robert told Chris that his show was the last interview he's doing until the game release in March. I think that's probabaly not a bad idea.

#6395 1 year ago
Quoted from PismoArcade:

He mentioned a licensed game that's in the pipeline after saying what a huge fan he is of Battlestar Gallactica.

Sure and Lorne Greene died back in the 1980s too.

Why not do Bonanza as well? Anybody up for a HossLE?

#6396 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Sure and Lorne Greene died back in the 1980s too. Why not do Bonanza as well. Anybody up for a HossLE?

I’m a Gunsmoke fan. Learned right from wrong by listening to Lawman Lucas McCain. We only know a few of Deeproot’s 13 titles. The others will by definition be a surprise. If one was Gunsmoke, I wouldn’t be surprised.
A4B5EE71-51F9-46DA-9DF5-E3FF98A9F243 (resized).jpeg

#6397 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

I’m a Gunsmoke fan. Learned right from wrong from listening to Lawman Lucas McCain.

I still watch all three regularly.

#6398 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

I still watch all three regularly.

Living in the Past (resized).png

#6399 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Anybody up for a HossLE?

In the bunny suit throwing eggs instead of bullets ?

I'm in.

LTG : )

#6400 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

I’m a Gunsmoke fan. Learned right from wrong by listening to Lawman Lucas McCain. We only know a few of Deeproot’s 13 titles. The others will by definition be a surprise. If one was Gunsmoke, I wouldn’t be surprised.
[quoted image]

One of these licenced themes is going to have to be Sledgehammer!! ... How could it not be!!

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