(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

3 years ago



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21
#6051 1 year ago

A few minutes of gameplay video including zombie multiball.

#6052 1 year ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

How does it even get to the left return? Just a matter of which way it randomly rolls when it makes it off the top end? The only video I've seen of it being made rolled down the right return.

So based on the close up from potatoloco ... There's a hole for the right return and if by some miracle you manage to JUMP OVER THAT you make it to the left return?

Holy shit is that hilarious.

#6053 1 year ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

Who doesn’t love David Thiel?!
Aaron
FAST Pinball

Arguably David Thiel is the reason I have a Dialed In right now over a Wonka. He knows his stuff!

#6054 1 year ago
Quoted from Potatoloco:

A few minutes of gameplay video including zombie multiball.

Your video went from good to great when the music blaring the same lyrics over and over again in the background stopped. The game looks fun to shoot, I wonder if it was suffering from the low voltage issues that are common at shows. Seems like a bit more flipper strength and the ramp shot would be makable.

#6055 1 year ago

Deeproot needs to add a magnetic ring to advance the ball up that ramp.

I am thinking something similar to P3 cosmic cart racing.

Is there any reason to have a ramp that is so difficult to achieve?

#6056 1 year ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Your video went from good to great when the music blaring the same lyrics over and over again in the background stopped. The game looks fun to shoot, I wonder if it was suffering from the low voltage issues that are common at shows. Seems like a bit more flipper strength and the ramp shot would be makable.

I felt the same in person as well about the music!

The flippers just weren’t great. They started to have a lot of give by Saturday night and the rubber was tearing off. Hopefully that’s more of an indication of it being played a lot rather than just bad parts.

#6057 1 year ago

You can trash Jpop all you want...the guy was a terrible CEO but he's made some really good pinball machines. ToM, TotAN, CV, WCS are all really good pinball machines. You can take any designer I don't care who it is....Pat Lawlor, Steve Ritchie, Barry Oursler, Dennis Nordman and many others out there...they have all designed a dog or two.

#6058 1 year ago
Quoted from J85M:

Was this the original RAZA artwork? that’s loads better than the new DR artwork, shame they couldn’t bring that over to use on this version.

Agreed, the original art was way better. I don't care much for the current art but that's just a matter of preference. The game looks like it has some interesting things going on. I am glad they got it out.

11
#6059 1 year ago
Quoted from Chicoman:

You can trash Jpop all you want...the guy was a terrible CEO but he's made some really good pinball machines. ToM, TotAN, CV, WCS are all really good pinball machines. You can take any designer I don't care who it is....Pat Lawlor, Steve Ritchie, Barry Oursler, Dennis Nordman and many others out there...they have all designed a dog or two.

Yeah but that didn't steal money and lie to pinball collectors

#6060 1 year ago

Weighing in with my unsolicited opinion (cause what else is this thread for?)

I was really excited for a new Jpop game, drama + bullshit aside I'm just a fan of his past work, and a big CV fan specifically. The original pictures of this game got me very excited, I love games full of toys and this has plenty of unique stuff. Love the wide display, artwork + colors of the playfield (though the yellow lighting in this event hall makes the game look a lot less attractive than the photos posted by TWIP). After watching videos I'm a lot less excited, but the game's flow seems to be ruined by the weak flippers not clearing the ramp. Really hoping this thing gets tweaked a bit and turns out killer, think it's got a lot of potential and with some kinks worked out it could be very cool. Excited to see if deeproot will actually be able to do a production run, VERY curious what the pricepoint will be, and looking forward to flipping one for myself in the future.

I'm too young to actually know, but wasn't Cirqus Voltaire a flop when it was first released? I've heard there weren't many fans of the colors/theme but I personally think it's one of the most gorgeous games ever made. Hearing similar aesthetic complaints here, just my 2c.

#6061 1 year ago
Quoted from nogoodnames222:

I'm too young to actually know, but wasn't Cirqus Voltaire a flop when it was first released? I've heard there weren't many fans of the colors/theme but I personally think it's one of the most gorgeous games ever made. Hearing similar aesthetic complaints here, just my 2c.

Yep, CV was a flop. Agreed one of the best looking pins ever made. Ive always been a fan of his artwork... but that's where it ends. Jpop also has an incredible talent for adding annoying toys that affect flow and offer no reward and my biggest gripe is he always has to screw up the shooter lane. I see he's managed to do it to this game too.

#6062 1 year ago

Cirqus Voltaire was indeed a flop because it has horrible rules and an uninspiring layout. It’s a beautiful machine with fun toys and gimmicks which make it collectible, but it actually does a good job of showing the problems with JPop design when it comes to balance and lastability.

That said, I hope RAZA is big hit, and I hope they fix some of the problems with the prototype.

#6063 1 year ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Yep, CV was a flop. Agreed one of the best looking pins ever made. Ive always been a fan of his artwork... but that's where it ends. Jpop also has an incredible talent for adding annoying toys that affect flow and offer no reward and my biggest gripe is he always has to screw up the shooter lane. I see he's managed to do it to this game too.

Shooter lanes are a necessary evil of pinball IMO, some designers do skillshots well but for the most part I appreciate any shooter lane that saves playfield space. Different strokes. I think Theater of Magic, even loaded with cool toys, shoots (+ flows) awesome. I just hope RAZA has better orbits than what I've seen in videos.

#6064 1 year ago
Quoted from Potatoloco:

I felt the same in person as well about the music!
The flippers just weren’t great. They started to have a lot of give by Saturday night and the rubber was tearing off. Hopefully that’s more of an indication of it being played a lot rather than just bad parts.

After watching that video and the ramp rejects i don't even get the point of a makeable ramp shot in that game. One ramp, returns to the right flipper if you can make it. In other words, see JPLE for creative ramp shots that mean something to the game.

The spinning disc looks like its just thrown in there and in the way.

I don't know, maybe i expected way too much after 7 years?

I was expecting more of a POTC type reveal that blew me away and made me want one! I'm sure Raza will end up ok but just expected much more i guess.

14
#6065 1 year ago
Quoted from Chicoman:

You can trash Jpop all you want...the guy was a terrible CEO but he's made some really good pinball machines.

And these guys had to finish many of them. There is a Steve Ritchie article in an Australian pinball magazine around 1999 that goes into detail.

Quoted from Chicoman:

..Pat Lawlor, Steve Ritchie, Barry Oursler, Dennis Nordman and many others

LTG : )

11
#6066 1 year ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

I am getting bummed out, RAZA seems to have a number of poorly designed key elements. For one, the ramp, what are they thinking putting only one ramp in the game, but at the same time using up so much real estate for return ramps. In addition, nothing kills flow like a ramp shot that cannot be made. I see no real innovation in this game, just a bunch of concepts from other games thrown together.......The Elements look forced. This is a disaster!
Suggestions
1.Get rid of the ridiculous inverse TOTAN lamp spinner - poor location and poor design
2. Fix the ramp by eliminating the top portion and making it flow better.
3. Eliminate the duck targets and go to regular targets, current design just looks cheap and foolish.....bad idea.
4. Ferris wheel looks cheap and unimpressive....remove it
5. Spinning disc on right is awkwardly placed....remove it.
6. Add another ramp shot to make this flow better.
7. Add some shots that “feel good”

Basically you're saying: Build a Stern.

Even if the ferris wheell and duck target wouldn't add too much (wich we don't know) it adds to the theme big time.

Remove each and evry mech that is not quintessential is... Well, a Stern.

#6067 1 year ago
Quoted from nogoodnames222:

Weighing in with my unsolicited opinion (cause what else is this thread for?)
I was really excited for a new Jpop game, drama + bullshit aside I'm just a fan of his past work, and a big CV fan specifically. The original pictures of this game got me very excited, I love games full of toys and this has plenty of unique stuff. Love the wide display, artwork + colors of the playfield (though the yellow lighting in this event hall makes the game look a lot less attractive than the photos posted by TWIP). After watching videos I'm a lot less excited, but the game's flow seems to be ruined by the weak flippers not clearing the ramp. Really hoping this thing gets tweaked a bit and turns out killer, think it's got a lot of potential and with some kinks worked out it could be very cool. Excited to see if deeproot will actually be able to do a production run, VERY curious what the pricepoint will be, and looking forward to flipping one for myself in the future.
I'm too young to actually know, but wasn't Cirqus Voltaire a flop when it was first released? I've heard there weren't many fans of the colors/theme but I personally think it's one of the most gorgeous games ever made. Hearing similar aesthetic complaints here, just my 2c.

It was considered at flop at launch and the bare bones code was bad. A little later Cameron Silver came up with a greatly expanded gameplay code with multiple level wizard modes,etc. This (to me) made all the difference and made it a great home game.

I didn't love the wild colors at the time but it grew on me over the years. Didn't hurt that they were blowing them out at $1700 NIB at the time either (well it hurt WMS).

#6068 1 year ago
Quoted from Chicoman:

You can trash Jpop all you want...the guy was a terrible CEO but he's made some really good pinball machines. ToM, TotAN, CV, WCS are all really good pinball machines. You can take any designer I don't care who it is....Pat Lawlor, Steve Ritchie, Barry Oursler, Dennis Nordman and many others out there...they have all designed a dog or two.

Funny you mentioned Ritchie as he finished World Cup Soccer for JPOP lol...Whoops just saw LTG’s post, too late lol.

#6069 1 year ago

The lighting in that hall Is horrible. Even that Simpson’s in the back of that video looks like crap.

#6070 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

And these guys had to finish many of them. There is a Steve Ritchie article in an Australian pinball magazine around 1999 that goes into detail.

LTG : )

WCS for sure: he was a newbye. For the others, it’s less obvious and it has always been a team effort at Williams. Ideas came from the team too. CV was even co-designed with Cameron so doesn’t mean anything. Main PF, toys signatures and design was under his direction.
Honestly, I have respect for SR, but he has been a newbyes too at some point and all his designed were not great. At the same time, it’s a bit dumb to think JPop is a god for design.
Stories, sometimes are more complex than black or white...

#6071 1 year ago
Quoted from beatmaster:

i thought i was the only one. trap the ball, control it... something.
it's like when you have people over playing pinball for the first time, both flipper.... both flipper, drives me crazy.

I played 3 games with a top 40 player, his scores were pretty crazy , my highest score was 5500, his lowest was 17000, this is a very low scoring pin, watching him handling the 6(I think) ball multi ball stopping, cradling, etc was awesome, also I spoke with all the engineers at length, they were VERY receptive to feedback, I personally am looking forward to March

#6072 1 year ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

how does this happen? You're a PINBALL COMPANY. Even if it was play tested like crap before it got shipped and you forgot to swap them out, you are at a PINBALL SHOW. someone go buy a dozen set of rubbers from a vendor there.

Deep Root isn't a pinball company. They are an entertainment company. Like Rudy Ray Moore, the complete entertainment package: Movies, TV, Streaming, Vacation Properties, Auto Insurance, IP, Animation...complete cultural domination. Pinball is a just a small part of it.

#6073 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Deep Root isn't a pinball company. They are an entertainment company. Like Rudy Ray Moore, the complete entertainment package: Movies, TV, Streaming, Vacation Properties, Auto Insurance, IP, Animation...complete cultural domination. Pinball is a just a small part of it.

Stern is a lifestyle brand if you ask them.

17
#6074 1 year ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

All shots in the game should feel good FFS. Seriously, go token up a Jurassic Park Pro from Stern. Every. shot. Is. Satisfying.
The problem with Raza is a standard JPOP problem which is few of the shots return to the flippers. That slows the game down and prevents combos, which are a super satisfying part of modern pinball.

Right. The huge Jpop problem is he thinks stuff that indeed ARE cool in a game from 1968 are going to translate to being awesome in a fast, rampy, 3D playfield in 2019.

They aren't. People want speed, combos, flow. They don't want a roto target, or a TOTAN spinner, or a swinging target or a bunch of standups that you literally can't shoot directly and hope the ball will just ricochet into. These ancient EM elements are fun on slower, shallower pitch EM games, but they don't work in modern pinball.

After RAZA tanks I'm wondering if people will finally figure that out.

18
#6075 1 year ago
Quoted from Chicoman:

You can trash Jpop all you want...the guy was a terrible CEO but he's made some really good pinball machines. ToM, TotAN, CV, WCS are all really good pinball machines. You can take any designer I don't care who it is....Pat Lawlor, Steve Ritchie, Barry Oursler, Dennis Nordman and many others out there...they have all designed a dog or two.

There's not a single "legend" in pinball design who's reputation rests on so little actual achievement. Jpop's games NEVER sold, were mostly disasters for ops. Most of his games have glaring flaws that render them useless in tournaments or for good players who don't want to be bored in a week. He's always relied on recycled gimmicks that are so old most people don't know they are from the 60s, magnets, and flamboyant fantasy artwork, while neglecting things that players value, like refined geometry and quality rulesets.

His games have their charms but the best playing one - by far - is also the one that was taken away from him halfway through and finished by people who knew what they doing (WCS). I don't know why people expect anything different but this is just more of the same. I just don't get the spell that JPOP has cast, the grip he has on pinball collectors. It might be time to get over it people.

#6076 1 year ago
Quoted from Potatoloco:

A few minutes of gameplay video including zombie multiball.

Ramp shot is horrible.

-1
#6077 1 year ago

1. People hate Jpop because of his business decisions. Fair. That does not give anyone a licence to claim they know that he "always" needs help with his designs and is just a shit-show for pinball design. Good designers would welcome help. Jpop designed some great classics that are well respected in the community. That is the plain truth.

2. Robert came across as a self-centered asshole when he posted here. I remember clearly, and I still cringe while thinking about it. After many months, I'm willing to chalk it up to overconfidence induced by excitement. When people shit on your unicorn, you might lash out too. I'm willing to move on from this.

3. Yes, the launch is delayed like they all are, and promises were not met. They say they are designing more than one game, and maybe they are delaying to do everything right. They have the money, so why not? They are hopefully going to pump out high-quality machines. I'm willing to wait if that is true.

4. The game is a prototype. Why can't so many of you understand this? The ramp shot isn't being made well because the game is likely playing VERY differently at the show than it did in the design studio. Do you really think they sat there and shot the ball half way up the ramp for a week and said, "That'll do 'er!" ???

5. Finally seeing a guy who could play (most recent vid) shows that this game shoots well, with the exception of under-powered flippers. I do think diverters are smarter design than steepness though. My games are always jacked to max steepness, so if that doesn't work with that ramp, it would be a big problem for me.

6. This game is not supposed to be a Stern. It appears to shoot like Jpops 90s designs, just like DI shoots like a polished older lawlor. If you want combo city, buy a stern. I look forward to some "bump into new mechs" and some stop and go. I consider myself a good player and I still have a blast when playing TOTAN. The design amazes me.

7. See number 4.

#6078 1 year ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Your video went from good to great when the music blaring the same lyrics over and over again in the background stopped. The game looks fun to shoot, I wonder if it was suffering from the low voltage issues that are common at shows. Seems like a bit more flipper strength and the ramp shot would be makable.

Quoted from Potatoloco:

I felt the same in person as well about the music!
The flippers just weren’t great. They started to have a lot of give by Saturday night and the rubber was tearing off. Hopefully that’s more of an indication of it being played a lot rather than just bad parts.

Wasn't that a live band in the background for the first minute or so? That didn't sound like it was coming from the game. At least I hope not.........

#6079 1 year ago

Ramp needs work. Alot of the other stuff is cool.

#6080 1 year ago

So the most important things we got from this:

- There's a lot of people around here that are just plain dead inside get their only joy from bad mouthing everything in sight

- We now know for sure why Stern doesn't show prototypes... or stopped posting here... and why Deeproot just deactivated their account

20
#6081 1 year ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

The game is a prototype. Why can't so many of you understand this?

Because Robert said they didn't need to make prototypes.

So is this really a prototype ? Or production game ?

Is Deeproot at the show and declaring it one or the other ?

LTG : )

-3
#6082 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

There's not a single "legend" in pinball design who's reputation rests on so little actual achievement.

Wow. Maybe so. But I do not think he has said that about himself. Too bad to have been working at Willy in the DMD-era, right.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

He's always relied on recycled gimmicks that are so old most people don't know they are from the 60s

Everybody recycles. Look at Lawlors designs. Sometimes for shear budgets reasons. Product developement, tooling etc. Funny how it is a sin for some. But a smart move for others.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

His games have their charms but the best playing one - by far - is also the one that was taken away from him halfway through and finished by people who knew what they doing (WCS).

As I remember the story, the playfield was done when Jpop had to stay home for awhile. So Larry Demar took leadership of the project.

I also believe it is a bit of a stretch to beat Jpop for game rules and scoring exploits. A pinball design is a collaborative efford. And game rules is perhaps the least sole responsibillity of the lead designer. As it is known to be an area where the programmer has a substantial input to the final product. Dennis Nordman has expressed how he leave it up the programmer.

14
#6083 1 year ago

I had Pm'd RM 4 months ago and told him with all the hype he's created, showing a game that was anything less than dialed in and done code wise (excluding bugs) would be suicide.
I understand because of RMs excessive hype they feel pressured to get something out there. I just cant believe their "debut" was like a WIP homebrew. Not to mention they allowed piss poor lighting, couldn't be bothered to "freshen" up rubbers or identify weak flippers let alone create a semi professional video if it in action. A real head scratcher. RM either needs to hire a PR manager or fire who he's got right now . This was their time to shine! The time to fire back and give a big middle finger to all the pinside haters ya know?

#6084 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

So the most important things we got from this:
- There's a lot of people around here that are just plain dead inside get their only joy from bad mouthing everything in sight
- We now know for sure why Stern doesn't show prototypes... or stopped posting here... and why Deeproot just deactivated their account

Did they really just deactivate???

That's one thing that bugs me about all of these pin companies, transparency and direct information in situations like these.

Why isn't there any official press discussion, panel work, publicity handling, PR, trailers, etc?

This may be a prototype, but it IS....IS a game reveal, regardless. And that being said, the best spokesman for this game right now, on this board, in the wild, is Deeproot. And what have we seen officially, nothing? We get discreet phone videos from users. Jack and shit from Deeproot.

So glad Deeproot is continuing the bad Pinball trend of not leading with information first, prior to speculation, and innuendo being created by their target market.

Absurd.

#6085 1 year ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

1. People hate Jpop because of his business decisions. Fair. That does not give anyone a licence to claim they know that he "always" needs help with his designs and is just a shit-show for pinball design. Good designers would welcome help. Jpop designed some great classics that are well respected in the community. That is the plain truth.

6. This game is not supposed to be a Stern. It appears to shoot like Jpops 90s designs, just like DI shoots like a polished older lawlor. If you want combo city, buy a stern. I look forward to some "bump into new mechs" and some stop and go. I consider myself a good player and I still have a blast when playing TOTAN. The design amazes me.

1. Yes he does. Always. Save those Zizzle games. See referenced article where Ritchie talks about it at WMS. See Magic Girl. See RAZA (original & this). See the drawings for Alice. See his version of Houdini.

6. At this stage it shoots nothing like his 90s designs, clearly. That appears to be what people are hoping for, but how likely that is to happen given that this has been being worked on for years and years and years already is unclear.

#6086 1 year ago
Quoted from wesman:

Did they really just deactivate???
That's one thing that bugs me about all of these pin companies, transparency and direct information in situations like these.
Why isn't there any official press discussion, panel work, publicity handling, PR, trailers, etc?
This may be a prototype, but it IS....IS a game reveal, regardless. And that being said, the best spokesman for this game right now, on this board, in the wild, is Deeproot. And what have we seen officially, nothing? We get discreet phone videos from users. Jack and shit from Deeproot.
So glad Deeproot is continuing the bad Pinball trend of not leading with information first, prior to speculation, and innuendo being created by their target market.
Absurd.

The first footage we got, even before Zach, was a link to a Facebook post.
In that Facebook post was waritten that you'd have to click on the comments to see more video.
First pinside post: OH GREAT JUST WHEN THEY GET THE GLAS ON THE VIDEOS IS OVER, AREN'T THERE MORE?!?

We got an official announcement on Deeproots Website aqt the end of May, that was over and over posted here and even with the reveal now a big article on TWIP that says that this is a porototype and while the "game/ playfield" in itself is pretty much finished, the cab art is a placeholer.
First pinside post: CAB LOOKS SHIT!!!

Why bother to do any PR HERE?!?

They do PR. Stern does (a lot of) PR.
They just don't do it here anymore.

#6087 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I don't know, maybe i expected way too much after 7 years?

I'm trying to imagine what it might have been like if jpop showed up with THIS game at the 2014 expo instead of just empty cabinets. But that was the same expo that DP blew everyone away with Lebowski, and I think Lebowski again would eat RAZAs lunch.

2019 this RAZA isn't moving the needle at all. imo.

#6088 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

The first footage we got, even before Zach, was a link to a Facebook post.
In that Facebook post was waritten that you'd have to click on the comments to see more video.
First pinside post: OH GREAT JUST WHEN THEY GET THE GLAS ON THE VIDEOS IS OVER, AREN'T THERE MORE?!?
We got an official announcement on Deeproots Website aqt the end of May, that was over and over posted here and even with the reveal now a big article on TWIP that says that this is a porototype and while the "game/ playfield" in itself is pretty much finished, the cab art is a placeholer.
First pinside post: CAB LOOKS SHIT!!!
Why bother to do any PR HERE?!?
They do PR. Stern does (a lot of) PR.
They just don't do it here anymore.

Hate to agree with the guy from Doucheldorf but the best thing DR can do right now is say absolutely nothing.

#6089 1 year ago
Quoted from hank527:

Ramp shot is horrible.

It is a design flaw, nothing else to say.

They wanted feedback, they will get it.

Change the ramp. Just looks horrible everytime a ball goes up, and falls back down again.

Doesn't matter how many frickin patents you have, get the basics right and have a game that shoots properly without design flaws.

#6090 1 year ago

Jeff posted a good video in his Pinball Profile facebook page. He is a good player, check it out

#6091 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

So the most important things we got from this:
- There's a lot of people around here that are just plain dead inside get their only joy from bad mouthing everything in sight
- We now know for sure why Stern doesn't show prototypes... or stopped posting here... and why Deeproot just deactivated their account

These are the least important things we got from this.

14
#6092 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

The first footage we got, even before Zach, was a link to a Facebook post.
In that Facebook post was waritten that you'd have to click on the comments to see more video.
First pinside post: OH GREAT JUST WHEN THEY GET THE GLAS ON THE VIDEOS IS OVER, AREN'T THERE MORE?!?
We got an official announcement on Deeproots Website aqt the end of May, that was over and over posted here and even with the reveal now a big article on TWIP that says that this is a porototype and while the "game/ playfield" in itself is pretty much finished, the cab art is a placeholer.
First pinside post: CAB LOOKS SHIT!!!
Why bother to do any PR HERE?!?
They do PR. Stern does (a lot of) PR.
They just don't do it here anymore.

The TWIP article was nice. It was a START, after many months of indirect info leaks. It was a fairly light, readable q/a with some basic photos. Why not produce some videos, with all of that highend Hollywood level animation industry talk Robert has discussed, and showcase some features, gameplay, have John discuss things, coders, etc.?

Robert when he was on this site acted in two ways. Boastful and defensive. Now he's nonexistent. Great looks for the head of a company towards the MAIN discussion forum on the net of his target userbase.

If 1/10 people buy or use his product in this thread, awesome! If 9/10 have a critical diminishing attitude, so what? This is a creative product. That is the nature of creation, praise and criticism, which aren't mutually exclusive.

American Pinball has handled many critical threads and issues on here, and several key company people still routinely read, comment, and give info to correct matters, not ignore them.

How did American Pinball handle the criticism of Houdini in several forms, the monkey on the backglass, Oktoberfest animations, the rumor Balcer left? They did so with information, acceptance of user feedback, and grace. They never once ran off with their toys.

Good on ya American Pinball!

#6093 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

There's not a single "legend" in pinball design who's reputation rests on so little actual achievement. Jpop's games NEVER sold, were mostly disasters for ops. Most of his games have glaring flaws that render them useless in tournaments or for good players who don't want to be bored in a week. He's always relied on recycled gimmicks that are so old most people don't know they are from the 60s, magnets, and flamboyant fantasy artwork, while neglecting things that players value, like refined geometry and quality rulesets.
His games have their charms but the best playing one - by far - is also the one that was taken away from him halfway through and finished by people who knew what they doing (WCS). I don't know why people expect anything different but this is just more of the same. I just don't get the spell that JPOP has cast, the grip he has on pinball collectors. It might be time to get over it people.

Same stuff again and again like a broken record. We got your point...Speak for yourself, I know a lot of advanced player who like Tom, totan and so on. I think it’s the contrary, you should ask yourself why there is still hype after the Zidware disaster: maybe because the way those games play, even if different, have its fan zone. I m not saying they are perfect.
All the pin have not to be the same, gamewise.

#6094 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

The first footage we got, even before Zach, was a link to a Facebook post.
In that Facebook post was waritten that you'd have to click on the comments to see more video.
First pinside post: OH GREAT JUST WHEN THEY GET THE GLAS ON THE VIDEOS IS OVER, AREN'T THERE MORE?!?

Oh please. I said that wistfully wondering why there was only that ONE tiny bit of footage on that entire page. Excuse me if I didn't see the tiny type stating "see comments for more videos".

Strange to hide both the comments AND the videos on the page but maybe that's how that cancerous shitshow FB is currently "run". I can't stand the guy that owns it or the site so I couldn't get out of there quick enough.

I notice that if people aren't gushing rainbows out their ass over this half finished thing you're all over them blaming them for "negativity". JFlop should have done time for all the money he stole but the braggart rescued him and at least got money back to some of his victims. That's why I've been giving this a chance and staying positive.

But you're just a complete apologist for both of them. Stop it. It's damned annoying.

----

#6096 1 year ago
Quoted from Manic:

Oh please. I said that wistfully wondering why there was only that ONE tiny bit of footage on that entire page. Excuse me if I didn't see the tiny type stating "see comments for more videos".
Strange to hide both the comments AND the videos on the page but maybe that's how that cancerous shitshow FB is currently "run". I can't stand the guy that owns it or the site so I couldn't get out of there quick enough.
I notice that if people aren't gushing rainbows out their ass over this half finished thing you're all over them blaming them for "negativity". JFlop should have done time for all the money he stole but the braggart rescued him and at least got money back to some of his victims. That's why I've been giving this a chance and staying positive.
But you're just a complete apologist for both of them. Stop it. It's damned annoying.
----

Nah, I read (and the "exaggerated" example is just an example that people dont read) and try to be reasonable.

My personal opinion is:
Looks nice, generally interrested where this is going. I don't need to judge that thing, I couldn't even buy it if I wanted to (wich I don't).

And my answer wich you're refraining to is about doing PR here.
So would a halfway civilized conversation be even possible with all these "Jflops" or "Jpoops" or now that I'm from "Doucheldorf"?
How is that helping with anything?

#6097 1 year ago
Quoted from Patrunkenphat7:

Cirqus Voltaire was indeed a flop because it has horrible rules

Horrible rules? Give me a break. It's literally the same as MM, RfM, AfM, Scared Stiff, Monster Bash, and ANY OTHER NUMBER OF GAMES that are ALL "Shoot X shot Y times to start/finish Z mode. If you don't like the weird layout, fine, but if you're bitching about the rules..... lol....well, you certainly must not like most of the most popular Williams/Bally games of the era.

#6098 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

I'm trying to imagine what it might have been like if jpop showed up with THIS game at the 2014 expo instead of just empty cabinets. But that was the same expo that DP blew everyone away with Lebowski, and I think Lebowski again would eat RAZAs lunch.
2019 this RAZA isn't moving the needle at all. imo.

Yep. That was 5 years ago when it all started to crumble down after that Expo. We were right there on the front row pushing and prodding Jpop right after that debacle weren’t we.

Hard to believe 5 years have blown by since then Frolic!

Jpop, on his own, had ZERO chance to deliver anything other than a box with random shit in it.

#6099 1 year ago

dear me watching the videos, the pin looks as bad as in RZ, Jetsons, MG from the looks of the videos I've watched.

Also if the game plays that bad (in show players hands) then I think DeepRoot should have put out a real promo video under controlled situations with shot being made (I mean like a 2 minus montage of shots being made). Put your best foot forward, you never have a second chance to make a first impression. At least RZ had the benefit of being sold out where this game will have to sell on peoples playing and word of mouth.

Hopefully this is a prototype and will be reworked so the ramps are easily made. Too many excellent choices out there.

#6100 1 year ago
Quoted from rai:

dear me watching the videos, the pin looks as bad as in RZ, Jetsons, MG front he looks of the videos I've watched.
Also if the game plays that bad (in show players hands) then I think DeepRoot should have put out a real promo video under controlled situations with shot being made (I mean like a 2 minus montage of shots being made). Put your best foot forward, you never have a second chance to make a first impression. At least RZ had the benefit of being sold out where this game will have to sell on peoples playing and word of mouth.
Hopefully this is a prototype and will be reworked so the ramps are easily made. Too many excellent choices out there.

Hoping the non jpop games are good. This one is a fail. A big fail.

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