Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020If deeproot games get good reviews on here down the road, AND my local distributor has them in stock in his warehouse I will probably give them a try. I probably would have tried a Spooky, but they are not available to just drive down the road and pick one up.
Quoted from o-din:Look at my avatar. That's what I am enthused about today. If the general pinball community doesn't get it, not my worry. We got tickets for 9:30.
I think this game looks great and it should do well at $5500-$6000. Pricing it any lower would just be foolish and I want a Deep root to survive. I do think they should consider discounted direct pricing, for a limited time at release to get people on the band wagon. Maybe you launch at $5500 for a limited time, then go to $5999. They could easily sell 1000 units direct to consumer in a week if they price this right.
Quoted from thedarkknight77:I think this game looks great and it should do well at $5500-$6000. Pricing it any lower would just be foolish and I want a Deep root to survive. I do think they should consider discounted direct pricing, for a limited time at release to get people on the band wagon. Maybe you launch at $5500 for a limited time, then go to $5999. They could easily sell 1000 units direct to consumer in a week if they price this right.
That may be the determining factor for price point.... what is the capacity per week of these illusive production lines?
Getting 1000 orders per week is great, except if you can only make 5 per week.
If the plan is big then one could assume that hundreds per week will go out the factory door, rather than dozens per week. That obviously means several lines, and being in the same ballpark as stern.
The price point then becomes about demand and capacity I guess... the question is, what is their maximum planned production capacity. Fairly significant it sounds like.
If the factory is geared to build 500 per week, hypothetically, and demand is 100 per week.... the price point may be higher than it aught to be in order to get the Deeproot machine rolling, to gain momentum.
Thinking this is a nice effort pinball machine, but non licensed theme is not going to cut it or hold value, like traditional licensed machines do. Zombies are so passé now. Like the effort to reduce crazy pricing in pinball, but until licensed games are released, they’re no threat to Stern. Who wouldn’t rather have a licensed popular theme that already has a huge following like JP, over RAZA for similar money? Could be good if it is selling way below a Stern Pro and then not being worried about resale value, because most can afford to just keep it.
Also, who wouldn’t be willing to pay $5500 for JP theme over RAZA (unknown theme) if sold even as low as $5000? Haven’t we learned that unlicensed themes don’t sell well to 2nd hand market? Octoberfest? Houdini? Cosmic Carnival? America’s Most Haunted? Whoa Nellie?
But do hope this all goes well, because we need the pricing competition so badly. Stern pricing has to stabilize and even come down. JJP is way out of whack pricing wise.
Quoted from BC_Gambit:Why not get both? I mean aside from cost. Why is having a fully loaded game with a killer display undesirable?
You are spot on with cost. In my opinion it’s a waste of money that could be invested in better/more interactive mechs and toys on the playfield. Other than telling me what I’m shooting for or the score I don’t care about video or even deep roots fancy Disney style animation. I’m sure younger generations may like large displays and video clips but I grew up playing em and solid state classics in the 70’s and 80,s. Pinball to me is manipulating a silver ball on a playfield. If I want video/animation I play a video game but that’s me.
Quoted from jimwe5t:Who wouldn’t rather have a licensed popular theme that already has a huge following like JP, over RAZA?
I wouldn't rather that.
Quoted from razorsedge:That may be the determining factor for price point.... what is the capacity per week of these illusive production lines?
Getting 1000 orders per week is great, except if you can only make 5 per week.
If the plan is big then one could assume that hundreds per week will go out the factory door, rather than dozens per week. That obviously means several lines, and being in the same ballpark as stern.
The price point then becomes about demand and capacity I guess... the question is, what is their maximum planned production capacity. Fairly significant it sounds like.
If the factory is geared to build 500 per week, hypothetically, and demand is 100 per week.... the price point may be higher than it aught to be in order to get the Deeproot machine rolling, to gain momentum.
Octomanufacturing.
Quoted from o-din:Look at my avatar. That's what I am enthused about today. If the general pinball community doesn't get it, not my worry. We got tickets for 9:30.
Ford v. Ferrari?
To “humble the competition” and not worry about it being a non licensed theme, think it needs to sell around the $3k to $3500 mark. That would have the power to change the crazy inflated high pricing in pinball. Many people would then become interested in pinball, instead think we are crazy paying such ridiculous current high prices.
Quoted from riggy469:K-man posted this on FB, the display looks great. Can’t wait to play one.[quoted image]
Looks like it will be a low scoring game similar to JJP.
Quoted from jimwe5t:Thinking this is a nice effort pinball machine, but non licensed theme is not going to cut it or hold value, like traditional licensed machines do.
Medieval madness, AFM, CV, Theater of Magic, cactus canyon, etc are all unlicensed themes that not only held their value but are now worth 2-4 times their original price. I’m curious to see how these new Deeproot games are priced. If they are less than a stern pro, then it will be very interesting
Quoted from jimwe5t:To “humble the competition” and not worry about it being a non licensed theme, think it needs to sell around the $3k to $3500 mark.
8CA736FD-79A6-4B8A-AAD5-53A413448B46 (resized).jpegFirst video posted on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/TexasPinball/videos/1556137674527761/
Quoted from Coz:Medieval madness, AFM, CV, Theater of Magic, cactus canyon, etc are all unlicensed themes that not only held their value but are now worth 2-4 times their original price. I’m curious to see how these new Deeproot games are priced. If they are less than a stern pro, then it will be very interesting
Agree with your examples, but that was a very different market 25 years ago. None of those machines were meant for the home and sold for far less than today’s in home machines. They command prices because of nostalgia, from so many playing years ago in an arcade.
Quoted from jimwe5t:We need a wake up in this thread.
Thinking this is a nice effort pinball machine, but non licensed theme is not going to cut it or hold value, like traditional licensed machines do. Zombies are so passé now. Like the effort to reduce crazy pricing in pinball, but until licensed games are released, they’re no threat to Stern. Who wouldn’t rather have a licensed popular theme that already has a huge following like JP, over RAZA for similar money?
Also, who wouldn’t be willing to pay $5500 for JP theme over RAZA (unknown) if sold as low as $5000, $500 less??? Haven’t we learned that unlicensed themes don’t sell well to 2nd hand market? Octoberfest? Houdini? Cosmic Carnival? America’s Most Haunted? Whoa Nellie?
Quite a few of the classic B/W games are unlicensed themes. If this plays well and is priced comp. to stern machines I’d take RAZA or AIW over JP or SW all day everyday. JP is a washed up overdone series that basically sucked more every sequel after the first movie and DE pin was released. Stern and JJP don’t have the balls ,motivation and aren’t willing to allow designers enough creativity to flesh out unlicensed games which I’m sure they consider too risky. they are so lazy they throw a cheap ass Tonka toy truck on JP or a tie fighter on a damn spring on SW. It’s pretty freaking pathetic!
We don’t need to wake up you just need to stay over in the stern fanboy threads!
Quoted from jimwe5t:Agree with your examples, but that was a very different market 25 years ago. None of those machines were meant for the home and sold for far less than today’s in home machines do.
Not far less. MM was between $3300 to $3600 back in '97. Use the inflation calculator.
But yeah, there weren't any gaudy overpriced LE's offered and there weren't people complaining loudly that they couldn't blow another $500 on a "topper" either. The market has indeed changed. Kinda sickening to watch sometimes but good for pinball and the industry.
Quoted from ultimategameroom:Quite a few of the classic B/W games are unlicensed themes. If this plays well and is priced comp. to stern machines I’d take RAZA or AIW over JP or SW all day everyday. JP is a washed up overdone series that basically sucked more every sequel after the first movie and DE pin was released. Stern and JJP don’t have the balls ,motivation and aren’t willing to allow designers enough creativity to flesh out unlicensed games which I’m sure they consider too risky. they are so lazy they throw a cheap ass Tonka toy truck on JP or a tie fighter on a damn spring on SW. It’s pretty freaking pathetic!
We don’t need to wake up you just need to stay over in the stern fanboy threads!
Actually DI by JJP and BK3 from Stern sorta refutes your rant a bit. But it does seem unlikely these days for an original theme to take off unless it's just THAT much better than anything else. Everything is a licensed sequel these days. Dull and predictable but it pays the bills.
Quoted from Manic:Actually DI by JJP and BK3 from Stern sorta refutes your rant a bit. But it does seem unlikely these days for an original theme to take off unless it's just THAT much better than anything else. Everything is a licensed sequel these days. Dull and predictable but it pays the bills.
DI was\is a horrible original theme. BK also a average sequel to a great original. I didn’t say an original theme was a guaranteed classic I said I’d prefer unlicensed over horrible sequel redo’s. The film industry is doing exactly the same thing. A new original script is risky but has potential to be great but we will just recycle a classic that will be nowhere near as good as the original because it should hopefully make money.
Cheers to deep root for taking a chance!
Quoted from OnTheSnap:First video posted on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/TexasPinball/videos/1556137674527761/
What a tease... right as they get the glass on... poof!
That looong screen sure does get your attention though. Maybe it's just because it's so different at the moment from everything else but it looked good.
Quoted from luvthatapex2:Admit it, you miss it! It hasn't been in a pinball since 1976 or so with Space Mission/Space Odyssey!
Thunderbirds has one. :p
Quoted from OnTheSnap:First video posted on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/TexasPinball/videos/1556137674527761/
Interesting. For some reason those leds look so uniform, almost like they're more groups than individual leds? It looks really, really fluid, light animation wise.
There are several videos in that facebook link, by the way!
Issue with this prototype is, what on it is actually real and not just a placeholder???
A. PF is not actual DR PF.
B. All artwork is place holder, not real.
C. Even innovative mechs not present.
How may we judge anything, when nothing is the actual finished product?
However, if this drives down pricing and creates better competition, seeing something is better than nothing. Hoping this all works out. If it does, it can only be good for us.
Quoted from jimwe5t:Thinking this is a nice effort pinball machine, but non licensed theme is not going to cut it or hold value, like traditional licensed machines do.
Um what?!
Quoted from wesman:There are several videos in that facebook link, by the way!
Yes yes, check the comments for short gameplay videos...
Quoted from wesman:Interesting. For some reason those leds look so uniform, almost like they're more groups than individual leds? It looks really, really fluid, light animation wise.
There are several videos in that facebook link, by the way!
Supposedly under that pill-shaped empty insert towards the back is some "special" that produces that liquid light effect. Does look kinda cool.
Thanks I must have missed the other videos. I'm always in a rush to get away from FB!
I got to play RAZA tonight and meet some of the Deeproot team. The display On the back box is really nice. I love the wide screen that goes completely across the width of the machine. I can’t wait to see the final product!
5D0C1EA4-F720-48F0-B669-0BB90759E887 (resized).jpegF5A5AF3F-A0E8-4BB0-88A9-CD6CD168A961 (resized).jpegQuoted from jimwe5t:Agree with your examples, but that was a very different market 25 years ago. None of those machines were meant for the home and sold for far less than today’s in home machines. They command prices because of nostalgia, from so many playing years ago in an arcade.
Not true, casuals love MM. people that have never played pinball before and play it, love it. Go to any pinball bar and see if people are playing MM under the age of 25. It’s popular because it’s easy to understand and feels good.
All of your comments are negative with a “but I wish they do well so I can buy other games for less”. Maybe it’s good or maybe it’s bad but just wait and see before making up your mind.
Quoted from Gotfrogs:I got to play RAZA tonight and meet some of the Deeproot team. The display On the back box is really nice. I love the wide screen that goes completely across the width of the machine. I can’t wait to see the final product![quoted image][quoted image]
There seems to be a green hue/glow to the photos and video taken so far. Is it weird lighting, or are the greens this dominant so far?
I hate that people keep saying RAZA has a Zombie theme. I mean I get that its in the name, but art-wise it seems a lot more like a retro sci-fi theme, mixed with some carnival type stuff. The only zombies I see look more like space-zombies that could just pass for martians. Maybe it needs a name change.
Quoted from Gotfrogs:I got to play RAZA tonight and meet some of the Deeproot team. The display On the back box is really nice. I love the wide screen that goes completely across the width of the machine. I can’t wait to see the final product![quoted image][quoted image]
Thoughts on the game?
Quoted from o-din:Look at my avatar. That's what I am enthused about today. If the general pinball community doesn't get it, not my worry. We got tickets for 9:30.
If you haven’t already you’ve got to go to the Petersen Museum and do the Vault tour. One of the best things I’ve ever done, and I’m not even really into cars.
Quoted from Gotfrogs:The lighting in the room was very strange. Big metal halides overhead. The games looked much better in person.
Phew! Thank you for that clarification!
Quoted from wlf_:Maybe in place of the current backglass will be a big big ol' screen? Animations seem important to what Deeproot is doing
This is what I was wondering also.
Why wouldn't the entire backglass be an led diode or filament?
Deeproot has been explicitly stating innovation comes first, so I'd have to think, hope so anyway, that these are the pinball bones onhand, and the innovations will be seen at the official unveiling just before production. Cabinet design, playfield hinges, playfield design itself, and hopefully something like an animated, ever shifting backglass, along with scoring and mode details.
One can hope, anyway.
If they can price things at or lower than Stern, I hope they can chip away some marketshare from them, as innovation, and value, is certainly not what Stern pushes towards natively. Deeproot has incessantly been stressing innovation, and value, even today Robert stated that, so hopefully this is literally the pinball foundation, and not the trimmings.
I think it is a really smart move by DR, to show the GAME without any focus being on the cabinet artwork. Nothing to distract people from what the game inside is about, no multi layered reviews of "the game" (no art layer). It is there to do what is intended; Let the public play the Game and review it for what it is, for it to be tested in the real world environment, recieve feedback .... all without people confusing things by letting the external look get mixed up with the gameplay and game experience. Also this way things only improve, allowing the game to be discovered a second time, but with the full shebang including the under bonnet innovations that complete their unit. It is perfectly clear always, going forward, that "this copy of RAZA we have here is a Prototype!" (even from 50 yards away).
Only what Williams used to do, just that they didn't have the global "social" media monster to deal with. Features would be deleted or altered, and no kickbacks or rage to deal with.
So here is prototype field testing in the 21st century, done very well I think. Now the big release is yet to come. and things can only get better once those placeholders are replaced. I would bet the art is complete, but not being shown yet when it doesn't need to. Like when the latest top secret luxury sport car is being factory tested on public roads (pre-release) and is covered with the wavy checker patern to conceal the contours, from competitors, and a surprise for customers at the Big release.
Smart thinking 
Quoted from razorsedge:I think it is a really smart move by DR, to show the GAME without any focus being on the cabinet artwork.
Smart thinking
Either that... or the cab/backglass art just wasn't ready/finalized in time 
Quoted from Manic:Either that... or the cab/backglass art just wasn't ready/finalized in time
Entirely possible. I just get the feeling that this game would be cabinet art free regardles of the readiness of the art, or not. There is no licencing to deal with, so should be no issue with "finalised in time". I think we will see the other titles go through a similar prototype testing method.... no real art. For the reasons above.
Quoted from razorsedge:I think it is a really smart move by DR, to show the GAME without any focus being on the cabinet artwork.
Translight too, right.
Agree. It is gonna throw some people off though. And the usual shouting from people not realising, that this can change (for the better) at any moment.
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