(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

2 years ago



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There are 8740 posts in this topic. You are on page 110 of 175.
#5451 7 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

I'm not convinced RM cares about getting any of that money back, to be honest. Carry on from day zero attitude? . Write it off to passion, or whatever.

It's not his money, it's investor money. Please feel free to tell investors who want their retirement funds back that they can't cash out because of Robert Mueller's passion for pinball.

#5452 7 months ago

There’s a lot of talk about their investors... Who are their investors? People here act like they’re random middle class working people. But is it a VC gaming fund? Some billionaires in an angel investing group? A lot of startup investors know they’re making high risk investments.

#5453 7 months ago

I still don't get it. Did I miss something?!?!? where are the low res pictures?

#5454 7 months ago

I wonder how many Cirqus Voltaires will be flooding the pinside marketplace in the upcoming weeks.

#5455 7 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

I wonder how many Cirqus Voltaires will be flooding the pinside marketplace in the upcoming weeks.

Is there any cool/unique toy on this game? I haven't had a chance to look into yet.

#5456 7 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I would imagine they're making their own proprietary boards and operating system. For a company's long term viability it's the smart move

I don't think the general public cares at this point. I don't.
Game looks fantastic IMO. Long ways to go yet but they have exceeded my expectations and I hunger for more.

Yeah, I agree that this looks nice but a long way to go.
We have all seen and experienced the hurdles yet to come...

I personally think that I would rather see a P-roc solution since many other start ups are going that way.
Unlikely they will do that, but in my real world decision making (after I come down to reality from the excitement of any new game) I like to know that the game will be reliable and parts are easy to source/interchangeable with other things on the market.

#5457 7 months ago

Perfect size, shape and placement of the screen!

Just as I have imagined the perfect solution to be. Looks so much better. And you can do some great stuff with this wide format.

13
#5458 7 months ago

This was supposed to give my life meaning.

But it just looks like another big dumb pinball machine.

I’m not sure what I can turn to now.

Religion? Family? Friends?

Everything seems so empty and pointless now.

#5459 7 months ago
Quoted from gliebig:

Is there any cool/unique toy on this game? I haven't had a chance to look into yet.

I couldn't get past the far out colors. But there is sure to be something resembling what Harry Williams put on a woodrail back in the 1950s again.

#5460 7 months ago

Going from idea to manufacturing to delivery will have a whole new suite of challenges. Good start though!

#5461 7 months ago
69EF025F-7393-4AA0-BC1B-56FAC4F47A2E (resized).jpeg
#5462 7 months ago
Quoted from Patrunkenphat7:

There’s a lot of talk about their investors... Who are their investors? People here act like they’re random middle class working people. But is it a VC gaming fund? Some billionaires in an angel investing group? A lot of startup investors know they’re making high risk investments.

From the SEC filings it appears Deeproot is selling securities, which is sold by small retirement planning firms. It appears the retirement firms are paid an 8% commission to sell these to individual investors, and that the shares pay a return of 5-7%.

https://sec.report/CIK/0001642564

It appears Deeproot has a lot of LLCs and I'm unsure if money flows between them.

#5463 7 months ago
Quoted from soren:

Perfect size, shape and placement of the screen!
Just as I have imagined the perfect solution to be. Looks so much better. And you can do some great stuff with this wide format.

Agreed, love this display. Traditional pinball proportions with maximum screen space. I think JJP's got the best solution for movie clips (IE. biggest screen possible, no wasted space on the sides) but for original animations this is the coolest display I've seen. Really disappointing + surprising to see so many guys hating on it already.

#5464 7 months ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Well, we'll see.
As said, screen space is the same so for me it's awesome that you've allready set up your mind that this is destined to be shit, without ever having seen anything.
The mentioned problems of a "dead zone" are correct, of course, but occur with mot modern games also... just look ad Batman, Munsters and Elvira.
You have a Fake Television in the center, and stuff for Modes left and right... and additionally stuff on the bottom.
I'm not saying this will be great, I'm just intrigued and you should be "open" too, at least until you see it in action.

It's not the same. You're deliberately choosing to ignore what's in front of your eyes. This IS objectively bad for the application. If it were a scrolling news or price ticker, fine. But it isn't.

Moreover, having mounted the speakers underneath the display, this appears to be even narrower vertically than CGC's solution ... and CGC have good reason for preserving original aspect ratio, as they are both selling a 'classic' edition and expanding on the original animations of the games.

The 'problem' you're saying that Batman, Munsters & Elvira have is not a problem for them. It's a problem for this machine.

DMDs went 128x16 -> 128x32 -> 192x64 (and physically much larger) - the latter being abandoned because they were considered too expensive. Each change was a major improvement in terms of the amount of information that could be displayed, and what you could do with animations.

This ultra wide, very vertically narrow display forces the UI designers into a corner - literally.

It also makes absolutely zero sense to be spending millions on an animation studio, and then never even give them the luxury of any depth of field whatsoever. Anything in the background? Pixel size. Portraits? Forget it. Anything tall? Has to be shown in either super wide format where it'll appear tiny, or you need to scroll up it to show it. Makes even less sense for a game that it is specifically about characters ... Ned, the princess, undead, aliens etc.

They're not spending millions on the translite art. Yet it dominates the backbox. Why is the most expensive part of the game in terms of development crammed into a small letterbox?

You could take an optimistic approach and say that they're going to do AR, and the display is just a sideshow. But it still wouldn't make any sense ... not everyone is going to wear glasses, and there are locations, show rooms and events to think of. You could also choose to think this is non-final, but aspect seems similar or the same to teaser videos released.

Or perhaps what we assume is the translite or backglass is another monitor? But, again, it would seem a strange design choice.

WOZ could do so much more with its display. It wasn't just all the toys and world under glass that caused it to pull so many new people into pinball, or collecting. It immersed people who were just watching the player. Will this ...?

It's extremely sub-optimal, to put it kindly, when they had a blank canvas.

#5465 7 months ago
dr (resized).jpg
#5466 7 months ago

While RAZA isn't personally my thing, I think it does look great. And has the community not been clamoring on and on about the need for "original" themes? Well here ya go! I must admit, while I have a owned a few Jpop games, they have never been on my "gotta have" or "keeper" list. I've always despised his shooter lane "skill shot" setups. RAZA is "normal" - smart decision!
Congrats to those that want this title. I'm waiting on AIW.

I'd really like to hear about the "new tech" they floated here oh so long ago.

#5467 7 months ago

Did anyone think Robert mentioning that the backbox looks like a Cylon raider was a hint to the 80s theme they have licensed?

#5468 7 months ago

I'm really looking forward to the demonstration where they take a sledgehammer to this thing.

#5469 7 months ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

It's not the same. You're deliberately choosing to ignore what's in front of your eyes. This IS objectively bad for the application. If it were a scrolling news or price ticker, fine. But it isn't.
Moreover, having mounted the speakers underneath the display, this is appears to be even narrower vertically than CGC's solution ... and CGC have good reason for preserving original aspect ratio, as they are both selling a 'classic' edition and expanding on the original animations of the games.
The 'problem' you're saying that Batman, Munsters & Elvira have is not a problem for them. It's a problem for this machine.
DMDs went 128x16 -> 128x32 -> 192x64 (and physically much larger) - the latter being abandoned because they were considered too expensive. Each change was a major improvement in terms of the amount of information that could be displayed, and what you could do with animations.
This ultra wide, very vertically narrow display forces the UI designers into a corner - literally.
It also makes absolutely zero sense to be spending millions on an animation studio, and then never even give them the luxury of any depth of field whatsoever. Anything in the background? Pixel size. Portraits? Forget it. Anything tall? Has to be shown in either super wide format where it'll appear tiny, or you need to scroll up it to show it. Makes even less sense for a game that it is specifically about characters ... Ned, the princess, undead, aliens etc.
They're not spending millions on the translite art. Yet it dominates the backbox. Why is the most expensive part of the game in terms of development crammed into a small letterbox?
You could take an optimistic approach and say that they're going to do AR, and the display is just a sideshow. But it still wouldn't make any sense ... not everyone is going to wear glasses, and there are locations, show rooms and events to think of. You could also choose to think this is non-final, but aspect seems similar or the same to teaser videos released.
WOZ could do so much more with its display. It wasn't just all the toys and world under glass that caused it to pull so many new people into pinball, or collecting. It immersed people who were just watching the player. Will this ...?
It's extremely sub-optimal, to put it kindly, when they had a blank canvas.

You're completely ignoring the fact that all animations for this game are original, there is no source material and as a result MANY of your complaints are moot... Why would any animator (when given the task of animating for this aspect ratio) choose to put tall vertical images, portraits, small background details, etc in? The screen on this is perfect for actually playing the game, maybe not for spectators but obviously that wasn't their focus. Keeping the critical information closer to the playfield is an AWESOME design choice IMO.

If this were using movie clips or art sourced from somewhere else I would completely agree that it's a horrible choice for displaying that, but it's not. Maybe wait to see it in action before completely writing the idea off.

#5470 7 months ago
Quoted from nogoodnames222:

You're completely ignoring the fact that all animations for this game are original, there is no source material and as a result MANY of your complaints are moot... Why would any animator (when given the task of animating for this aspect ratio) choose to put tall vertical images, portraits, small background details, etc in? The screen on this is perfect for actually playing the game, maybe not for spectators but obviously that wasn't their focus. Keeping the critical information closer to the playfield is an AWESOME design choice IMO.
If this were using movie clips or art sourced from somewhere else I would completely agree that it's a horrible choice for displaying that, but it's not. Maybe wait to see it in action before completely writing the idea off.

I must have missed the part where all animators always want to create stuff in a letterbox format ... and indeed, it is all original, so why would you pigeon hole them with this aspect? The reason DMDs were originally so small, and vertically small, is that first Plasma and then LED DMDs were extremely expensive. It made sense to cram one in between the speakers and have it be as short as possible, due to costs.

-3
#5471 7 months ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

It's not his money, it's investor money. Please feel free to tell investors who want their retirement funds back that they can't cash out because of Robert Mueller's passion for pinball.

If you think investors use their retirement funds, you don't get how that world works.

#5472 7 months ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Exactly, the lower I have to look on a screen the better. I like this innovation.

so this is why the display belongs into the apron area

#5473 7 months ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

I must have missed the part where all animators always want to create stuff in a letterbox format.

I must've missed the part where artists are incapable of change and refuse to take on any kind of creative challenge.

#5474 7 months ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Per the article/interview the art is not final.

I'm hoping its FAR from final. Gotta be.

My comparison is to CGC's MBrLE, the whole package. It's not comparable thus far.

#5475 7 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

I wondered about the overhanging plastic in front of the "Atomic Shop", easily broken?.... but I guess if it is PETG it will take it.

Good point , but I'm not worried.
Robert said “10 year warranty” if I remember correctly!

#5476 7 months ago

Big thanks to TWIP pin2d for the article, pics, and interviews. The game looks very interesting. Now there is something out there for everyone to take a look at. That surely means the bonkers speculation will subside. Right? That is a joke for any needing that pointed out...

Anyways, hopefully we get some more feedback from any of the folks making it over to the event in Houston.

#5477 7 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

I'm really looking forward to the demonstration where they take a sledgehammer to this thing.

That would be a bad idea.

A very bad idea.

This prototype has a Mirco playfield......

#5478 7 months ago
Quoted from boo32:

Did anyone think Robert mentioning that the backbox looks like a Cylon raider was a hint to the 80s theme they have licensed?

Id be all over a BSG pin.

#5479 7 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I'm hoping its FAR from final. Gotta be.
My comparison is to CGC's MBrLE, the whole package. It's not comparable thus far.

Yes... but if it is half as good as MBrLE, and runs at half the price, would it get your dollars?

#5480 7 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

What is the boardset they are using?
Also, what are the source parts?

If I had to make an educated guess, I'd say the boards that John commissioned for Zidware, but never paid for. The driver is simply a small WPC-95 clone that does the job.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#5481 7 months ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

That would be a bad idea.
A very bad idea.
This prototype has a Mirco playfield......

Lets hope the clear is good!!

#5482 7 months ago

Gotta hand it to these trendsetters.

Who knew while the rest of the world was asleep, neon would be making such a huge comeback.

download (resized).jpg
#5483 7 months ago

Deeproot is gonna kill it.

#5484 7 months ago
Quoted from sataneatscheese:

Yes... but if it is half as good as MBrLE, and runs at half the price, would it get your dollars?

Well i already have a RAZA coming from DR's generous fix the Jpop screwup rebate.

I paid $7500 for my MBrLE. If this game goes for 1/2 that? They are gonna crush it!

#5485 7 months ago

That screen size and aspect ratio is baffling?! Why would they not go with a standard easily sourced size, that just seems like a lot of additional cost for virtually no value.

-7
#5486 7 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Well i already have a RAZA coming from DR's generous fix the Jpop screwup rebate.
I paid $7500 for my MBrLE. If this game goes for 1/2 that? They are gonna crush it!

Agreed. Stern is going to get crushed. Raza already looks better than bksor, gotg, Beatles, Munsters.

#5487 7 months ago

I don't get the hype at all...
Cabinet artwork and backglass artwork is sooooo extremely bland!

Playfield looks colorful but I hope it's not too much as what we've come to expect from JPOP...

Theme doesn't work at all for me but still curious to see how it ends up playing!
Curious to see what's all the innovation they're talking about though as I don't really see it in these pictures.

#5488 7 months ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

Agreed. Stern is going to get crushed. Raza already looks better than bksor, gotg, Beatles, Munsters.

Stern has nothing to worry about until anyone else proves they're remotely capable of manufacturing multiple thousand units of a product in a timely fashion.

RAZA could be amazing and cost $5,000, but it doesn't mean jack if they can't keep up with demand.

#5489 7 months ago

@pin2d Do you happen to know (and have the authority to confirm) that the following from the TWIP deeproot article on 09/23/19 is still going to happen?

We also plan to release a teaser for our second title prior to the Houston Arcade Expo show. This teaser will showcase a level of cinematic animation never before seen with pinball, courtesy of deeproot Studios.

#5490 7 months ago

Last post on their website. http://deeprootpinball.com/

September 21, 2019

In response to inquiries, we would like to expound upon our prior statement, "At a minimum, several RAZA prototypes will be available to play at the Houston Arcade Expo." Two early prototypes of Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (RAZA) will be at the Houston Arcade Expo on November 15-16, 2019. These prototypes will not have final art, design, or code. Our primary goal is to collect real-world data. There will be a minimal deeproot staff presence only to monitor data and performance of the machine components.

We expect to complete engineering and launch early next year. A press release and media qualification form will be forthcoming. We also plan to release a teaser for our second title prior to the Houston Arcade Expo show. This teaser will showcase a level of cinematic animation never before seen with pinball, courtesy of deeproot Studios.

Other pinball manufacturers interested in licensing the deeproot package of innovations, or intending on attending the launch, should email us for more information or complimentary invitations.

Lastly, all parties interested in becoming distributors should email us with a Letter of Interest for consideration. The LOI should highlight: region served, regulatory costs and logistics (if outside the US), industry knowledge, technical competence, sales history summary, and average buyer base. Even if you have already contacted us prior, please re-submit your interest.

#5491 7 months ago

The only thing that will blow my mind at this point is if they can sell these for less than a Stern pro. Being able to recoup the money they spent thus far at that price point would blow my mind even further. The game itself looks cool but not 2 years of anticipation level of cool.

#5492 7 months ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

Agreed. Stern is going to get crushed. Raza already looks better than bksor, gotg, Beatles, Munsters.

I was somewhat kidding

23
#5493 7 months ago

Looks amazing. A lot better than I thought it would be.

Congratulations Deeproot on a great start.

LTG : )

#5494 7 months ago

It will never be less than a Stern PRO.

Quoted from pipes:

The only thing that will blow my mind at this point is if they can sell these for less than a Stern pro. Being able to recoup the money they spent thus far at that price point would blow my mind even further. The game itself looks cool but not 2 years of anticipation level of cool.

#5495 7 months ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

It will never be less than a Stern PRO.

I agree. I don't think that's possible. I'm anticipating it to be more in line with the Stern Premium price point.

#5496 7 months ago

The game looks awesome and fun to shoot! Lots of stuff on the playfield that makes me wonder “what does that do?” and “where does the ball go/come out?” which I love.

Kinda curious why deeproot doesn’t have a larger online presence at this point. Where are their social media pages, why isn’t their website updated and why aren’t they out there promoting their appearance at the Houston Arcade Expo? A few podcasts/articles is all well and good, but even if launch is a few months away, it’s time to start marketing!

Start humanizing deeproot — do some employee profiles, factory pics, something!

-Doug

#5497 7 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

Who knew while the rest of the world was asleep, neon would be making such a huge comeback.

I happen to love the color scheme I see on RAZA. Very much so and its one of the first things I noticed in the pictures.
Stern's color palette choices are antiquated and played out, seemly forever now, with a few exceptions. IMO

#5498 7 months ago

Well, it's taken a while, but I'm starting to get over my hate for this company. That hiring the crook, Jpoop, just left a bad taste in my mouth. Yeah, I know SOME of you are getting machines so you have to play nice. If they would have originally said we are taking on Jpoop to clear up his bullshit and get everybody who paid into this scam a machine...I would understand.
But they hired him first and then offered something with a time limit and conditions which everyone wasn't happy with. (and STILL no apology from that guy) And, yeah, I know they have no obligation and you're getting something rather than nothing....but they hired a con artist that screwed many people out of hard earned money. But with that said, I'm beginning to soften up a bit. With all the boasting though, the main thing now is price. If it's regular Stern or JJP pricing....well, you know. Someone said it best, this machine should have a fantastic introductory price point. I can't imagine it's gonna be sub $5k, but lower than $7K. Sorry for the ranting....I didn't get much sleep....

#5499 7 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I happen to love the color scheme I see on RAZA. Very much so and its one of the first things I noticed in the pictures.
Stern's color palette choices are antiquated and played out, seemly forever, with only very few exceptions.

Then have we got the grocery getter for you!

63a675b53c68da5a9981a8cb5dc20ea4 (resized).jpg
#5500 7 months ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Well, it's taken a while, but I'm starting to get over my hate for this company. That hiring the crook, Jpoop, just left a bad taste in my mouth. Yeah, I know SOME of you are getting machines so you have to play nice. If they would have originally said we are taking on Jpoop to clear up his bullshit and get everybody who paid into this scam a machine...I would understand.
But they hired him first and then offered something with a time limit and conditions which everyone wasn't happy with. (and STILL no apology from that guy) And, yeah, I know they have no obligation and you're getting something rather than nothing....but they hired a con artist that screwed many people out of hard earned money. But with that said, I'm beginning to soften up a bit. With all the boasting though, the main thing now is price. If it's regular Stern of JJP pricing....well, you know. Someone said it best, this machine should have a fantastic introductory price point. I can't imagine it's gonna be sub $5k, but lower than $7K. Sorry for the ranting....I didn't get much sleep....

Glad you're softening up.

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