(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

2 years ago



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#5401 31 days ago
Quoted from ausretrogamer:

March 25, 2020 at 8:55am = the official launch of deeproot Pinball

Perfect timing. Let's them control the launch with hand selected guests and TPF 2 days later for a reveal to the unwashed masses.

#5402 31 days ago

Looks nice from those pics. Hope it plays well and does well for Deeproot.

I will say they are doing what they said they would do. Maybe slower than expected, but it's happening.

Well done.

Chris

#5403 31 days ago

For those that don't like the cabinet art, per the article:

"This weekend at the Houston Arcade Expo, deeproot Pinball will be introducing their first prototype pinball machine: Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (RAZA). There will be two RAZA prototype machines at the show to play. According to deeproot, this is not a launch and this machine will not have the final art, design, or code.

(You can find more details about the official deeproot launch below.)"

This isn't final anything, I wouldn't worry about the cabinet art yet.

Also in the article:

"We’ve tried to make the prototype cabinet familiar. And the production cabinets will be more aesthetically pleasing. " - Robert Mueller

#5404 31 days ago
Quoted from ausretrogamer:

They will if deeproot Pinball can shock and awe with pricing.

Price doesn't make a better game . Is a $12000 + Yellow Brick Road WOZ a better game $5000 Walking Dead Pro ?

#5405 31 days ago

I do appreciate Jpop actually appearing more humble in his interview. That was always grossly lacking during the zidware years.

The supershort and wide LCD I don't think is a great innovation. Not enough space to wow people. Go walk around a Dave & Busters these days to see the importance of LCDs with attractive games.

In the end its... a pinball. Really comes down to their pricing (and ability to manufacture in a meaningful way).

#5406 31 days ago

This is just the beginning.

Enough here to suggest Deeproot will steal significant market share from Stern and JJP.

I like the new speaker panel.

Only thing that looks bad is metal apron with cards on it.

Would prefer some kind of screen printed apron.

No one reads cards anymore and the just look rubbish - just like Stern yellow cards.

#5407 31 days ago
Quoted from screaminr:

Looks good but I don't think Stern or JJP are shaking their boots - yet .

The pricing of these games is what other manufacturers are most interested in I'm sure.

#5408 31 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

It is as augmented reality as it gets, seeing something else than what really exists in the physical space. Augmented. Reality. Simple or complicated. Same.
Acknowledging or not doesn't change the fact it is a decades old concept that many are only just discovering existed long ago.

I was looking at the now and hoping to see something more advanced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=9DYo3FN6AC4&feature=emb_logo

Todays AR is a way different animal to pre 2000

https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/article/augmented-reality-the-past-the-present-and-the-future

#5409 31 days ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Perfect timing. Let's them control the launch with hand selected guests and TPF 2 days later for a reveal to the unwashed masses.

So then, 25th to 29th of March is going to be the "5 days of Deeproot" ....

#5410 31 days ago

It's still solid state ..... errr, I mean AR. The essence of the definition has not changed lol

Two decades ago you got to see it as "news" . Yeah.

#5411 31 days ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Let's them control the launch with hand selected guests and TPF 2 days later

Houston Arcade Expo*

#5412 31 days ago
Quoted from Spraynard:

Houston Arcade Expo*

No, TPF.

March. Launch.

32
#5413 31 days ago

I disagree with everyone who doesn’t like the narrow screen. I think it’s perfect!

It’s not a video game, it’s a pinball machine. The current screens in Sterns are awkward, poorly laid out and take away backglass space. This format is a great compromise and makes it stand out because it’s not some off the shelf panel from a laptop.

Hopefully they’ve put a lot of thought into information display, which only Aliens and Dialed In have managed to nail down properly.

#5414 31 days ago

Not sure I like that left ramp coming almost down to the left sling, would rather some targets over there or a kickout hole and the ramp moved back a little but otherwise looks great!

#5415 31 days ago
Quoted from homebrood:

Not sure I like that left ramp coming almost down to the left sling, would rather some targets over there or a kickout hole and the ramp moved back a little but otherwise looks great!

I think that is a "drop point" (ramp end) above playfield level ... staging to the flipper but not via inlane.

#5416 31 days ago

Looks pretty cool - I think it may be impossible to come in at some low price point they claimed when you see all those ramps and gadgets but hard not to be impressed. Lets hope they keep all the stuff on it from prototype to final product. Hope it plays well and has good rules.

I love space themes especially retro ones. Hard not to consider myself a potential buyer by appearance but I would want to not fall into a Dutch Pinball fantasy either and will have to wait to play it, make sure they can build it and deliver it. But, reflecting on the prior JPOP payback to Zidware customers seems like they are serious.

But, like many pinsiders I do or can fall in love with new shinny things and theme.

Don't let us down Deeproot. Deliver a product no hype no big claims. Use standard mechs to build it and make it replaceable parts make it decent and serviceable.

#5417 31 days ago

This might be a dumb question, but what shots feed the left and right return ramps?
What's going on at the top of the looping center ramp?
(it looks like the center ramp plops the ball into the right return ramp, but I'm not sure)

Will need to see some gameplay

11
#5418 31 days ago

So how much??

If this is 4999, homerun.

If it's 7999, idk.

#5419 31 days ago
Quoted from cait001:

This might be a dumb question, but what shots feed the left and right return ramps?
What's going on at the top of the looping center ramp?
(it looks like the center ramp plops the ball into the right return ramp, but I'm not sure)
Will need to see some gameplay

If it's like his other titles they'll be a diverter of sorts that will send it one way or the other.

#5420 31 days ago

All those millions of dollars invested have to be built into any price of the game. The game is going to have significant BOM, R&D costs, overhead and still have meat on the bone for resellers and distributors. And it's built in Texas. How is that going to be sub $5k?

#5421 31 days ago

The volume point for this game is just a hair below a Stern Pro. $5500. If it’s over $6K it will be much tougher. I love JPOP ramps and this reminds me of WCS ramps.

#5422 31 days ago

Maybe $5-8K, no way below $5k even.

#5423 31 days ago

What’s their business model? Sell direct?

#5424 31 days ago
Quoted from TKDalumni:

What’s their business model? Sell direct?

In the TWIP interview Robert mentions distributors.

#5425 31 days ago

My gut predicts $7k-$7500.

Robert talks a lot about "value", so there could be more for the money at that price range, better value than a Stern Premium. But I don't think he's equating "value" with "cheap".

#5426 31 days ago
Quoted from frolic:

My gut predicts $7k-$7500.
Robert talks a lot about "value", so there could be more for the money at that price range, better value than a Stern Premium. But I don't think he's equating "value" with "cheap".

He said pricing will "humble the competition". I don't see how you do that by selling a game for more than the current lowest price Stern pro offering.

12
#5427 31 days ago

I also like this aspect ratio for LCD, as it's similar to the re-configured AFM, MM screens which I think work perfect for pinball. Pinball really doens't need a big ass JJP sized monitor.

#5428 31 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

He said pricing will "humble the competition". I don't see how you do that by selling a game for more than the current lowest price Stern pro offering.

Because it's not like Robert has ever failed at living up to his bluster before.

#5429 31 days ago
Quoted from frolic:

All those millions of dollars invested have to be built into any price of the game. The game is going to have significant BOM, R&D costs, overhead and still have meat on the bone for resellers and distributors. And it's built in Texas. How is that going to be sub $5k?

Seems to me that this game could be simply treated as a loss or break even by deeproot (without caring), considering the levels of funding that seem to be available. Setting up a larger company in this way, for the longer larger run, you would never expect the first product to pay for setup costs, not by a Very long way.

Imagine if they Do sell RAZA and one or two other initial titles for lets say, $4,495 (as a "release special").... just to show they mean business, and to get plenty of examples of their proud creations out in the world, more rapidly... ?

If something like that happened the landscape could morph dramatically, and Very rapidly....

#5430 31 days ago

Game looks very promising to me. The screen looks fine to me. Guys complain if it's too big limiting backglass artwork or to square limiting how much info can be displayed. It really comes down to how it is used. No way this is priced below $5000. That's just ridiculous in today's market for a game built up from scratch. I bet pricing will be similar to AP. Somewhere between Stern pro and premium.

#5431 31 days ago

Got to admit. Thing does look real nice and have a very unique layout. The orange standups to the left of the ramp entry, and the drops in the right orbit look crazy to hit. Lots going on.

Meanwhile, live look at Cosmic Carnival owners...

GMB2.gif
GMB3.gif

#5432 31 days ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

Game looks very promising to me. The screen looks fine to me. Guys complain if it's too big limiting backglass artwork or to square limiting how much info can be displayed. It really comes down to how it is used. No way this is priced below $5000. That's just ridiculous in today's market for a game built up from scratch. I bet pricing will be similar to AP. Somewhere between Stern pro and premium.

Jelly Bean Jar competition, closest to the final announced RRP for a NIB RAZA game.

I rekon $4,990

#5433 31 days ago

The layout looks pretty damn awesome! Very eager to try it out!

#5434 31 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Seems to me that this game could be simply treated as a loss or break even by deeproot (without caring), considering the levels of funding that seem to be available. Setting up a larger company in this way, for the longer larger run, you would never expect the first product to pay for setup costs, not by a Very long way.

I might have thought this possible if they launched within their original timeline, but there's a whole additional year of cash burn.

Yeah, I get that they've got big funding, but at some point that has to turn into something.

#5435 31 days ago

Looks like a lot of 3D printed parts. I wonder if those are final are just for the prototypes. I wonder how they would hold up in action.

#5436 31 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Imagine if they Do sell RAZA and one or two other initial titles for lets say, $4,495 (as a "release special").... just to show they mean business, and to get some examples of their proud creations out in the world, more rapidly... ?

Let's do a quick back of the napkin business case with those kind of numbers.

Assume that they've come up with some crazy cheap unit cost, including assembly labor and all the below the line numbers, and that unit cost to deeproot is $1500. Let's say they sell them at $4500 just to make it easy. That gives them $3k margin per unit.

If Robert's claims of $750k a month are correct, and we pretend they've only been in business for the first 10 months of 2019, ignoring all the time before, that's $7.5M in cost. At a fantastic $3k margin, they would have to sell 2500 games to break even on 2019 alone. If you add in all the time they've spent before 2019......

Do I think they've actually gotten unit cost down to something like $1500? Probably not.

#5437 31 days ago

The whole layout looks a bit confusing to me but I think I will like it. Very complex appearing with apparently lots to do. Looks fun. Anxious to see how it plays. Given that the art is still "preliminary", I do hope they improve on the cabinet art which is very simplistic compared to the playfield. Reminds me of the WONKA SE art with not much there. Has anyone heard if they plan on having a topper for the game?

#5438 31 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Looks like a lot of 3D printed parts. I wonder if those are final are just for the prototypes. I wonder how they would hold up in action.

Noway they can be final unless they only plan on making like a hundred games. 3d printing takes way too much time, I take it?

#5439 31 days ago

I'm confused. Is today a five days of deeproot day?

Joking aside, pictures only tell a small part of the story. Houdini had a great reception when it came to photos but after the game had been played a bunch, people really didn't fall in love with it. I see a pretty standard pinball machine from a company that hasn't mass produced anything yet. So we had a ton of hype for a pretty normal looking game. I don't see any innovations that would be worth millions of dollars to license like Deeproot was saying before. I know this isn't final artwork or anything but the fit and finish looks slightly worse than ACNC and that game is actually shipping with a price tag and is in people's hands. Oh an ACNC didn't cost millions of dollars in development.

#5440 31 days ago
Quoted from frolic:

I might have thought this possible if they launched within their original timeline, but there's a whole additional year of cash burn.
Yeah, I get that they've got big funding, but at some point that has to turn into something.

I'm sure there is a disposable budget or write-off to some degree. Of course RM would surely be aiming for profitability, eventually. Seems to all fit into a long term plan/outlook. Of course as you say it has to turn into something, the vision seems to be rivaling stern. Imagine if the first three releases were all sold basically at cost price level for the rest of 2020? ..... Shockwaves!!

o-din !! .... Surely, a Sledgehammer gif please!

#5441 31 days ago
hammertime.gif
#5442 31 days ago
Quoted from valgalder:

I also like this aspect ratio for LCD, as it's similar to the re-configured AFM, MM screens which I think work perfect for pinball. Pinball really doens't need a big ass JJP sized monitor.

Exactly, the lower I have to look on a screen the better. I like this innovation.

10
#5443 31 days ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

What is the boardset they are using?

I would imagine they're making their own proprietary boards and operating system. For a company's long term viability it's the smart move

Quoted from Whysnow:

Also, what are the source parts?

I don't think the general public cares at this point. I don't.

Game looks fantastic IMO. Long ways to go yet but they have exceeded my expectations and I hunger for more.

#5444 31 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Looks like a lot of 3D printed parts. I wonder if those are final are just for the prototypes. I wonder how they would hold up in action.

I wondered about the overhanging plastic in front of the "Atomic Shop", easily broken?.... but I guess if it is PETG it will take it.

#5445 31 days ago

It would make sense that for the first machine it wouldn't be the most complex / mech-packed game. But if this is an indication of what's to come, call me interested. I'm hopeful as they go from walking to running, that we start to see magical mechs on par with the 90's machines, in additional to the stellar art and design work they are already showing.

#5446 31 days ago

Are all 250 patents in there?

#5447 31 days ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Let's do a quick back of the napkin business case with those kind of numbers.
Assume that they've come up with some crazy cheap unit cost, including assembly labor and all the below the line numbers, and that unit cost to deeproot is $1500. Let's say they sell them at $4500 just to make it easy. That gives them $3k margin per unit.
If Robert's claims of $750k a month are correct, and we pretend they've only been in business for the first 10 months of 2019, ignoring all the time before, that's $7.5M in cost. At a fantastic $3k margin, they would have to sell 2500 games to break even on 2019 alone. If you add in all the time they've spent before 2019......
Do I think they've actually gotten unit cost down to something like $1500? Probably not.

I'm not convinced RM cares about getting any of that money back, to be honest. Carry on from day zero attitude? . Write it off to passion, or whatever.

Who knows really, so many possible perspectives, mostly unknowns. We're all just speculating.

#5448 31 days ago
Quoted from pipes:

Are all 250 patents in there?

I would not think so. They seem to be just showing off/testing the Game, Playfield/Layout, Display setup, Code.

Cabinet aspects/mechs, internals, system/boardset, access, servicability, look .... all could relate to patents not being shown with these prototypes. "Most innovations will not be on show at Houston".

#5449 31 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

I'm not convinced RM cares about getting any of that money back, to be honest. Carry on from day zero attitude? . Write it off to passion, or whatever.
Who knows really, so many possible perspectives, mostly unknowns. We're all just speculating.

I love pinball and all but I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want to build them. It just seems like a complete nightmare.

#5450 31 days ago
Quoted from pipes:

I love pinball and all but I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want to build them. It just seems like a complete nightmare.

I guess if he is successful, his games will exist for alot longer than he will. Maybe he just wants to leave a mark. A Pinball mark

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