Oh boy. So there really is going to be an attempt at 2 Chicago shows a month apart? This won't end well.

Yes.

Apparently I’m going to both?

(No im not. Most people
Won’t.)

Multiple shows will not be better, rather, it will result in less people outside Chicago going to either one

I can't stand the venue of expo as a vendor or attendee.

There has to be a compromise or fix to this. Having multiple Chicago shows a month apart will be stupid. There are already to many shows as there is and everyone is already spread thin. Get a 3rd part panel together that includes major vendors and manufacturers that will work with Rob and Mike to make expo great again. I would move the venue first thing. That is my only input.

That web site has always been a train wreck. In a day and age when your website is the best form of communication and promotion, it seems that this is the LAST thing Expo considers. Someone mentioned above that the vendor list hasn't been updated in years? This is shear laziness, they don't know how, they don't want to pay anyone to build a decent site, or they flat out don't care or don't think it's important.

I am not real sure why the push for a new venue.. actually most people love it You guys need to try to find a place ...not easy alot of big hassles at other places believe me..

Just to clarify. What are the dates of each show?

If the could not make it work after 30 some years, THANK GODNESS they are deciding to try something new separate.

The first year will be tough on both, but guessing 1 (the new one) rises from the flames the following year.

New show already has a better venue, if they also have the industry support from the big players, toss on a stellar tournament format, and can get the collector community to show up and support the free play then they will win out.

If they are smartm then the first year is run with only the attempt to break even (or lose money). That alone will help them compared to a show where someone is attempting to make it their full time job.

Chicago pinball show at westin is oct 17 to 21 rooms available call direct or use the link I posted earlier NOT ONE ON PINBALL EXPO WEBSITE MORE exciting news to come soon ..

Fix your dang website. Holy jeez, it's literally the least you can do.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa WHOA. Now wait a minute here.

While whatever is breaking down here is breaking down or has broken down, let's be real - Expo WORKED for 30+ years. Maybe that's what is bothering me about how this seems to be going down, the history of Expo is amazing and should be celebrated, not made to seem like it was a second rate show.

Expo has been around for 30+ years. If it was a cluster the entire time, it would have never made it to two shows, much less 30. I wish we could celebrate what came before, not tear it down.

They are both going to end up with things that are rather new. But I think it's worth pointing out that there has been other shows in the Chicago area attempted to be started in the past few years with similar goals that weren't really what I'd call crazy successes. It's not as simple as throwing out a flag and saying here's a new show. It takes a lot more.

I don't think either show can retain the format that it has had and truly thrive. I'm curious to see how they both try to address this...

I do not have control of pinball expo website Berk does I generally ask his people to make the changes but because of the stalemate nothing has been done something will be posted and a website for new show at Westin real soon stay tuned but i twill be same date shown and same location for sure unreal to change dates this late in the game not good move at all done change your plans yet major news coming ..

We all miss Gene, Gene, the Dancing Machine's show and the Potato Basket two-star restaurant with the '70's decor & fixtures.

A simple solution would be for Mike to step aside and give it to Bob. Yes, Mike is part of the history of making the expo what it was. He is also the reason it is currently falling apart.

It's Schaumburg, not Schaumberg. No, it IS NOT a WAY WAY better location and venue than the Westin Wheeling. Good luck finding a venue in six months with a huge, first class hotel and ballrooms that can properly service a show like what Rob Berk is proposing.

I love the way you always CAPITALIZE a word or two in your posts for, well, nothing....

Some have said Mike is getting too old to handle the show. Keep in mind Mike is not the oldest guy in the group.

Okay, I need to stop reading this as I need to actually like, uh, do things tonight but...

Let's be real fair. For however many years, Expo worked because Rob and Mike fit their strengths together.

While there are a LOT of people on here that are jumping on the "Yeah, Mike was killing Expo" train, again, that is terribly unfair. Expo worked for 30+ years. Maybe some years not as good as others, but I remember many of the Expo's that I have gone too, and they were amazing. My first one was in 1999, and I didn't know what I was in for at all. I didn't get a ticket since I only had a couple hours and the show floor wasn't open, and I couldn't afford the seminar pass for just a bit, but I was outside the room when Gomez was doing his Pinball 2000 speech. I thought it was the coolest thing ever.

The two of them had their portions divided. Each worked within their segment to bring the show what it needed, and that is why it was such a huge milestone for years.

There have been issues that I know of behind the scenes for a number of years. As a "young" show organizer with "only" 18 years of experience compared to their 30+, I looked up to them even when I didn't know them about how to do things. And, sometimes, how I wanted to do things differently.

It's disappointing that it got to the point that one is basically forcing the other out.

For those who think that forcing the other person out will solve all ills, I'll simply say this: No big time show organizer can do 100% of the show organization themselves. Rob hasn't explained who the team is that is coming in to make this show great. He's claimed that the industry will show up, but who will coordinate that? If the issue for so long was that Mike was doing a poor job coordinating it, couldn't he have taken over parts of that earlier? I'm very confused over how that will take place.

It seems like Mike was surprised by the announcement. I'm sure because it's how shows are run that he is locked into dates where he is for multiple years, and he won't be able to easily break those contracts, which means there will be something carrying on because that is a ton of money. To put it into perspective, the MGC has been signed at least 3 years in advance almost entirely throughout our lifespan. We worked out a crazy opt-out clause with the Sheraton where we had been which did allow us to move and shop the show yearly, which was both terrible and good, but if they are signed for multiple years out, well... It means they could be on the hook for a lot. Our final Sheraton contract, if we would have broke it after signing it, the "fees" for leaving were in the six figures.

So, while I don't know if the issue is the same, if Rob is deciding to break the partnership and leaving Mike holding a contract that needs to be filled, that sucks. And you're going to see something filling that show space and "competing" against Rob's new show not because Mike is being a jerk about it but because otherwise the financial repercussions are crazy.

What it is that fills the space and how that works is what the question now is. I have ideas about how things could be done, and I hope for the sake of the continued success of Expo that both sides get their way. Right now it feels like Rob has gotten his way by moving off to do his own thing, but... It isn't right for this all to fall apart.

So many people that have never gone to Pinball Expo running their mouth! C'mon Levi!

Bob, man killing me!! Hahahhaha

Seriously folks (Joe Walsh no pun intended) What IF Mike is locked into the Expo dates like Goatdan mentions? That would suck if Rob is leaving him to dry. Maybe it doesn't matter to you. It should. That is some serious cash. Mike (whether you like him or hate him) had to do a lot of the grunt and bad work of the show while Rob was the front man and good guy. The fire chief and electrical dealings for the Expo are a function Mike handled that were a pain in the ass. So if it comes to a choice. I choose the Expo version and not the Palooza version.

I’ve lived in the area and attended Expo for two decades. Schaumburg > Wheeling.

You think he just now started looking for a venue? Hotels with ballrooms are a dime a dozen around here. I’m guessing he has one in mind, if not already booked.

I disagree on the Schaumburg > Wheeling opinion.

As far as the "dime-a-dozen comment. Name just a half-dozen Schaumburg hotels with meeting/ballroom space that is double the size of the Westin Wheeling. I don't think there are even four.

As for my thinking if he just started looking for a venue; yes. I could be wrong though.

Just being real here, I can't imagine that hotel isn't contracted in some way already. And with Mike stating that he is going to run something there, well...

The Sheraton used to have us on a four year rotation, so we would "auto" book dates for 2022 if we were still there this year the moment 2018 was done. If we didn't have the opt out clause I worked in - which I was always floored they allowed us to do because it always ended in us going back and negotiating with them every year instead of just signing and gave us more power in that negotiation, usually... Anyway, if we would have been signed for the four years, breaking the contract for us would have cost us $40,000+ for the four years. Running something in that case would have allowed us to defray some of the cost.

If the options are lose a ton of money, or run something and try to not lose as much money, it would be a difficult choice.

Wheeling is such a great town for events that they built a 150,000 square foot convention center with a 4-star hotel there in 2006. Wait, never mind, that was Schaumburg.

I’m not researching the square footage of every hotel in the area, but if you have more free time than I do, knock yourself out. I started with the obvious one: http://www.schaumburgconventioncenter.com/

This is a smart take. I might not go to shows to play a lot, but for more serious players that's a legit draw.

This Expo Sucks™ narrative being so pervasive is relatively new. It's been a great show up until really recently, and then it turned into just a good one. It's just that people expect it to be great. And fair enough, it should be.

I realize California isn't the heart of pinball like the Midwest, but I'd encourage people to come out and see the Banning Arcade Expo. It overlaps with TPF this year, you might already be going to that, but maybe next year come on out. It's an amazing collection, and a good show, and they just keep working to grow it.

There are some amazing private collections in SoCal if you make it into a proper visit.

20150117_ARCEXPO_web.jpg

I finished my other stuff, so one last read before bedtime!

That's the thing. As someone who was able to attend almost every year from 1999 to 2010 or so in some capacity, and then an average of every other year, holy crap, there was nothing like Expo.

Expo exists like it does because it was created very specifically to cater to a crowd that it cultivated over the years. Expo can't pivot like a ton of people just think should be easy - running a show is so much more involved than most people have any idea of, and so doing what looks like it should be "easy", just simply isn't easy.

The newer shows did stuff differently that was appealing to people in different ways, and Expo has had a hard time adjusting to that based on how it was created.

Every year after Expo, I hear people compare it to MGC and say things like they should do things the same way as we have done. The two shows were created differently. If I ran MGC to exist over a five day period, I'd go bankrupt on it, guaranteed. If you applied what we did to Expo without adjusting anything, it would go bankrupt. Threading that needle is more difficult than people seem to be giving it credit for, and splitting the show in two doesn't solve some underlying, functional issues.

And a lot of Teslas

Charlie, you are a true ambassador of pinball.
I can't wait to have the opportunity to meet you at golden state pinball festival.

Mike IS locked into the October dates. He's signed a contract with the Westin. To cancel that contract is many Tens of thousands of dollars (if not $100k). The original idea was that Berk would buy out Mike, and the show would continue at the Westin for at least this year. (They may have a contract signed for 2019 too, not sure on that.) But obviously that didn't work out.

Pinball Expo IS mike. Mike does the majority of the back scene work. Berk has handled the seminars, and frankly not much more. Mike has done all the other stuff, including signing the contract with the Westin.

Frankly i haven't seen the conflicts that people complain about. Mike has always been nice to me. But i don't vend and i don't bring games, so my mike exposure is different.

Personally i love the Westin. I've been going to expo for over 25 years. I've seen all the hotels they've used (except for the very first two years), and the Westin is by far the best.

Berk's history on show promotion is not good. Unless he makes some serious changes, he'll blow up the whole idea. Mike promotes not only Expo but the Ohio show too. He does a successful job on both. He has a track history of good shows.

Having two shows, one month apart, just can't be good. It force people to take sides. It splits everything.

My personal opinion is that Berk and Mike should work together, as they have, for at least 2018 (or how every long they have the Westin contract.) If they want to split, do it after the fact, and on good terms. Instead of this dumb split show thing.

On the website... Berk has complete control of that. Even though it promotes Mike's show. Berk should transfer the URL ownership to Mike, and let mike re-do the website. Why hasn't that happened Mr. Berk??? If it never happens that will tell you something about the people involved...

Seems to me that Berk knows exactly what he is doing in this case and honestly it seems to make the best business sense.\

I wish both parties luck and all I really hope is that something better comes out of all this. It was time for the show to evolve or die.

Looks like a "land grab" going on for vendors/partners for both shows. Puts everyone in a bad spot.

I really think it puts the customers in the best spot. First year will be rocky (like they would for any new show), but 1 will come out as the customer favorite for whatever reason. It is on each business to chart their path forward to try and entice the distributors, manufacturers, collectors, attractions, etc... that will make their show a success.

Bob is stepping down. Keep believing the false narrative that he is the reason it is falling apart. Cause and effect.

I don’t hate Mike. I don’t want to see the Expo go away. I have had great experiences at the expo. Over the past several years something changed. It circles around one person involved and the attitude of fiefdom that changed the experience of attendees and volunteers and participants. This is known. It’s not just rumors. Sometimes people change. Some need a divorce or a new partner or a company needs a new CEO. It happens.

Common sense would dictate one show only.

Just re-vamp existing and re-name.

Chicago Pinball Festival ( CPF ).

Did anyone else find that reading the interview with Mike was jarring and disorienting? It was odd to see commas, periods, hyphens, and general good punctuation.

Thats because you live closer. . For me it is further and I certainly enjoyed that the Westin was a 5 to 10 minute drive for me, although not like Schaumburg is that far, and it is certainly closer to American Pinball (and Pinball Life).

Hard to say if it is better until we know where. For example, if at the convention center (there is a large hotel, that is probably similar in size to the Westin)., then most of the restaurants are not going to be across the parking lot or walking distance. There are other hotels in the area, but I have not clue if any are big enough to accomodate. Are there an absolute ton of restaurants in the area yes. There are also going to be far more hotels in the area for those who want different accommodations. Schaumburg is probably closer to O'hare, but certainly not a significant difference.

Reality is Wheeling was a pretty nice place, with the biggest downside being a bitch for vendors and those bringing games. Parking can be an issue on occasion, but that seems to have not been as much an issue the last couple of years (but I guess that says something about the state of expo).

Since I am local, I look forward to being at both shows (well, unless they conflict with a big Michigan football game).

Not a very lengthy interview.

I travel to Chicago frequently for business and I have to say, as far as locations go, Schaumburg >>>>> Wheeling. Just from a hotel perspective for lodging, there are 5 Marriott properties in a couple of mile radius alone. Not to mention a mall, a huge variety of dining options, a park for some of you fat asses to walk those Chicago hot dogs (yes, there is also a Portillos in the area) off, easy access off of the highway, easy access from Ohare..... I could go on. It's not even close.

I don't know Chicago well, but it's not like Portillos is that far from the Weston in Wheeling. It's probably a 5 minute drive down Lake Cook.

And this would make me the first person on Pinside to have a rabid opinion on something they have absolutely no experience with?!

Come on man. This whole experience is crushing!

I'm trying to convince Berk to move it to the Super 8 at the intersection of I-90 and 31.

i woULD pay GOOD money$$$ to SEe THAT ..

You people are all missing the real point... when is PBLs open house going to be?

I’m going to one or the other.

Please woo me...

It's fun to correctly guess who downvoted a post (not my post, FWIW).