Twin Joker Assistance Needed Please


By hapsreplays

2 weeks ago


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  • Latest reply 1 week ago by baldtwit
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#1 19 days ago

I had a post 7 month ago "Fried Twin Joker Transformer". Since then, I have replaced the fried 122-105 transformer with a E-122-19. I have included a basic schematic of the 122-19 below. I also included a small pic of the original game schematics for the 122-105. The TJ only uses the 50v and thee 6v as I can tell. I was painstakingly careful when "mapping" all of the old transformer wires to their new positions on the 122-19. I am not great with the electronics side of EMs and this is why I tried to be so careful. Not sure if you can see if I did something wrong from the pics I posted below. It seems the general illumination is getting proper voltage and all motors will run....just not when I need them to or they won't stop.

My issues: Upon power up, all the general illumination works. Initially, the game would let me start the first player and the 1st player lights in the back glass would illuminate. At this point, the ball lift motor would not stop running and ejects all five balls at once. This has now turned into a non-stop running ball eject motor every time I power on the game. I have checked the switch in the playfield ball shooter lane where the ball enters the playfield and it is not bad. Someone suggested I test this previously.

I know the other motors work as well because at different times when I have powered up the game, sometimes the shuffle motor will turn and stop and so will the index reset motor.

Could it be that I have done something to the ball lift, eject motor or shuffle motor switches? The ball lift switches seem to be adjusted correctly but t this point I do not know. The shuffle motor switch stacks, especially cam 2, do not appear to be operating properly. The game is all restored save for the legs, instruction cards and minor head touch up. The game worked perfectly before I plugged in the cabinet plugs wrong and blew up the transformer.

Any suggestions that may help me with this machine are greatly appreciated.

#2 19 days ago

It sounds like your transformer is wired properly, otherwise you'd get that nice bubbling sound.

The fuses are also working, otherwise lamps or motors wouldn't run.

So you're left with switch adjustments. The ball lift motor cams have a run-out switch. If you examine the cams you'll find a dwell where the switches are supposed to change state. Check that, assuming your lane switch is properly changing state when a ball sits on it.

#3 17 days ago

to make helping easier, you guys can find the twin joker schematic in:
http://bingo.cdyn.com/machines/bally/twin_joker/resources

the schematic symbols are a bit different. The shuffle (shutter) switches appear to be drawn when the shutter is closed.

assuming the ball lifter stops when all the balls are out of the trough, you've either got the manual ball lift push button switch stuck closed, or the ball lift relay is not working right. With the balls out of the machine so you can lift up the playfield with the power on:

- push down the "shooter alley" rollover - that's the ball runway/lane switch in bingo terminology. The ball lift relay should power and stay powered
- lift the ball gate flap (rebound gate) at the top of the runway. The ball lift relay should unpower.

it's the ball lift relay that turns the lift motor off/on, and there's the index ball lift motor switch that keeps the motor running until the lifter arms has reached the bottom again.

if the index ball lift motor switch was stuck closed, the motor would always run unless the 1st player tilt relay was tripped. That doesn't sound like your problem.

#4 17 days ago

I honestly had no idea that you had the schem up on your site... that helps a ton!

Quoted from baldtwit:

if the index ball lift motor switch was stuck closed, the motor would always run unless the 1st player tilt relay was tripped. That doesn't sound like your problem.

Well, it did sound like that was the problem being described, but I'm often wrong.

The schem also shows the first trough switch (might be located in the area underneath the lifter) - if constructed like the bingos, there's a switch that is actuated by a little pin. Often this pin is rusty or gets stuck in machines when I first get them due to old crud. Make sure that it changes state as a ball is being lifted, and again when a ball settles on top of it.

But follow all of @baldtwit's advice first.

#5 15 days ago

Thanks guys. I hope to get the machine opened back up this Friday 08-04-17 to have another go at it using your tips. I'll let you know what happens. The ball lift motor never stops; even after all balls are ejected. I was wondering if it might be relay related....we'll see. Thanks Again!

#6 12 days ago

the twin joker schem is not linked into the web pages ... kinda like all the stuff at
http://bingo.cdyn.com/machines/bally_one_balls/
which ya don't know about unless someone tells you. I have a few more one-ball manuals/schems to stuff there one of these years.

#7 11 days ago

Hello......

Tonight I opened up and turned on the TJ. The ball lift motor will not stop running from the time I switch the machine on. If I put ball in, it drains all the balls. I checked the switch under the ball lift mechanism that BC spoke of (always open on the schematics until activated?). It is working properly per my DMM. I checked and then activated the shooter alley rollover switch (always open on the schematics unless activated?) but the ball lift motor did not stop and the ball lift motor relay did nothing. I checked and then activated the ball lift gate upper playfield switch (always closed unless activated?) and again, the ball lift motor kept running and the ball lift motor relay did nothing.

When I removed the upper playfield ball lift gate switch, I must have done something to TILT the game. When I powered the game back on after that, the back glass showed the two TILT lights and the machine was silent; the ball lift motor not running. Once I added a credit and hit the player one start button, the ball lift motor went into action and kept running until I powered the game off.

I am at a loss at this point. Wondering if I fried something else when I burnt up that original transformer? Such a great game, though simple, and not many made. I hate to let it beat me.

#8 11 days ago

should read "When I removed the upper playfield ball lift gate switch to double check it"

#9 11 days ago

You didn't fry anything. You bent some switch blades/contacts on the shutter motor assembly on the bottom of the playfield.

#10 11 days ago
Quoted from MrBally:

You didn't fry anything

+1

Did you check your trough switches?
Check those and the shutter motor as @MrBally said.

#11 10 days ago

ignoring for the moment that the ball lift relay should power/unpower just using the alley switch and gate switch regardless of what the motor is doing....

if:
- the #1 ball trough switch (pin switch) is good, which you said it is
- the motor stopped when a player tilt relay is tripped,
- motor runs always otherwise,
your index ball lift motor switch is probably stuck closed. In bingo land, that's the ball lift carry-over switch.

above the ball lift motor is a bracket with a couple switches. The one furthest from the motor left/away from the cabinet side is usually the carry-over switch and it's job is to keep the motor powered until the lift cycle completes. The switch rides on a cam, and there's a notch in the cam that lowers the switch stack and opens the switch when the lift arm is all the way down.

I fixed the picture on this page:
https://bingo.cdyn.com/techno/howtheywork/insidebingo/ball_lift.html

if that switch is ok, make sure all your plugs are in the right places.

you've got the switch state right...sounds like you're stuck at the "normally" part. On the schem, the switches are usually drawn in the "not doing something" state - typically at game over or right after reset.

the index ball lift motor is shown as normally open, and that's when the motor is off.

shortly after the motor turns on, tho, the #1 ball trough switch will open because the ball sitting on it got lifted. Without the index ball lift motor switch closing, the motor would stop with the ball only lifted a short way up the chute.

the lift arm has to go all the way up and down to allow another ball to roll into the lifter and close the #1 ball trough switch again....the curved metal arm hanging below the lift stops a ball from rolling into the lifter chute during the cycle...which would be unfortunate for the lift motor gears.

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