(Topic ID: 93368)

Twilight Zone Trough switches. What is correct?


By Arcade

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 34 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Arcade
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 5 years ago

I have a Twilight Zone that occasionaly likes to throw two balls into the shooter lane.
The trough switches in the manual say part # 5647-09957-00
The three switches are lables 16,17 and 25 in the manual.
However when I input that switch part number into Marco's web page a totally different switch pops up.
It does not have the large upwards bend in the activation wire like my swithces do.
What is the correct part to order and from where?
Thanks.

Any other ideas on what may be causing this are welcome as well.

#2 5 years ago

I've had this problem - occasionally getting two balls in the shooter lane on a TZ, and a common cause is magnetized balls believe it or not. Try putting some new balls in or take some balls from another machine which doesn't have magnets and give it a go. I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out the problem til Andy Netherwood told me to try a ball change and the problem was fixed instantly.

Paul, Editor - pavlovpinball.com

#3 5 years ago

Check the shooter lane switch also,That switch might be faulty or might need replacing.Put game in switch test and use a ball not your finger to test see if those switches are acting up on the screen.

#4 5 years ago

Thanks guys. Magnitized balls could be the issue. I will give new balls a try.
I did the switch test and all switches seem rock solid. I took the apron off and shook the hell out of the game with no faulty switch readings.
Also the ball can sit in the shooter lane all day with no ball search.
But in my mind the only problem could be some switch.
However magnitized balls sticking together could be the simplest solution.
Hope that is it.

#5 5 years ago

Let us know if that fixes it - I'd be really interested to find out if you resolve it!
Paul - editor, pavlovpinball.com

#6 5 years ago

No dice. Funny though because I just got a batch pinball life premiums in the mail today.
But no effect. Still serves up two balls at random times. Sometimes I can play three straight perfect games before it starts and other times it can do it on the first ball of the first game.
I retested all switches in trough and shooter lane and they are rock solid. Even messed with the proximity switch to no effect.
Losing a lot of hair over this one.

#7 5 years ago

Take off the apron and try cleaning that area with a dry microfiber towel dirt and gunk do build up,Also do have the correct numbers of balls in the game?

#8 5 years ago

Roll the ball back and fourth the ball thats how you can test if the switch needs adjusting or its faulty, just sitting there wont really be testing that switch.

#9 5 years ago

I will try those ideas again. You never know.
However I have a very clean area under my apron already.
I also have tested rolling the balls over the switches and can find no faults anywhere.
I will take some photos today. Maybe someone will see something I am missing.

#10 5 years ago

Test the diodes with a meter with the power off,Also cold solder joints on switches and diodes

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Test the diodes with a meter with the power off,Also cold solder joints on switches and diodes

Great idea.
Thanks.

#12 5 years ago

Everything tested great. But may have found the issue by accident. Though it really does not make sense.
Sometime between shutting down last night and this morning my trough proximity switch decided to go out permanently. It is now stuck in the on position and never goes out.
Played 12 straight games with no double balls in the shooter lane.
Maybe the sensor was getting flaky and caused the oddness.
I still have the original sensor installed but had done the solder mod to eliminate the plugs coming loose.
Now I have to figure out if the sensor board is broken or the little board it connects to.

#13 5 years ago

Could be that when the game causes vibration,I would reflow some solder on the plugs

#14 5 years ago

Turns out it was just stuck on at the main little board.
I removed the sensor and nothing would make it go off on the main board.
I just ordered a new pinpoint Trough sensor kit for $65.
Hopefully that is all it will take.
I played a lot more games with the sensor stuck on and still not a single double ball served up.
I feel pretty confident now that I have solved it.
Game is still playable, it just won't tell when powerball is kicked out from trough, but the sensor on the under playfield ramp catches it every time.

#15 5 years ago

Sounds good and good luck

#16 5 years ago

New trough proximity boards installed.
No help.
Game still serves up two balls whenever it feels like it.
Arrrrrrgh! What the hell?
This is driving me crazy.

#17 5 years ago

Actually, your trough switches should be 15, 16, and 17. Switch 26 is the proximity sensor and has nothing to do with loading balls. It's only purpose is to sense(or not sense, technically) the ceramic powerball. That's a simple logic operation, too. If switch 15 is closed and no signal is sent from 26, it knows the ball is ceramic and not magnetic. Also, if the ball can sit in the shooter lane with no ball search, that is a good thing. It knows where the ball is because the switch there is working properly.

What I'd do is remove the apron and go into switch test mode. Load a ball into the outhole and while watching the screen, make sure that at as you manually slide the ball to the right along the trough, every switch the ball touches fires off. There should be a visible notation of it on the screen in the switch matrix graphic on the left along with a description of the last switch that just triggered on the right side of the screen as well as an audible tone denoting that a switch was triggered.

Why you want to use a ball to test it instead of just your finger is because your finger can actuate the arm of a switch much further than the ball can and you might have been getting a "false positive" on a switch, namely 15, 16, and 17, the trough switches. If the ball doesn't trigger a particular switch, but you can do it by hand, a slight adjustment to the switch's arm might be all that's necessary to get it to register when a ball is in that place.

It could also be that the switch itself is just flaky. I had this happen on my TAF's ramp exit switch. All I had to do was to cycle the switch over and over to "clean" it up inside. Sometimes those switches get "sticky" and will just stop working. A little bit of actuating them over and over(like 50 times or so) frees them back up and they usually start responding to the light stuff again.

Try this stuff out and let us know what happens!

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from Miguel351:

Actually, your trough switches should be 15, 16, and 17. Switch 26 is the proximity sensor and has nothing to do with loading balls. It's only purpose is to sense(or not sense, technically) the ceramic powerball. That's a simple logic operation, too. If switch 15 is closed and no signal is sent from 26, it knows the ball is ceramic and not magnetic. Also, if the ball can sit in the shooter lane with no ball search, that is a good thing. It knows where the ball is because the switch there is working properly.
What I'd do is remove the apron and go into switch test mode. Load a ball into the outhole and while watching the screen, make sure that at as you manually slide the ball to the right along the trough, every switch the ball touches fires off. There should be a visible notation of it on the screen in the switch matrix graphic on the left along with a description of the last switch that just triggered on the right side of the screen as well as an audible tone denoting that a switch was triggered.
Why you want to use a ball to test it instead of just your finger is because your finger can actuate the arm of a switch much further than the ball can and you might have been getting a "false positive" on a switch, namely 15, 16, and 17, the trough switches. If the ball doesn't trigger a particular switch, but you can do it by hand, a slight adjustment to the switch's arm might be all that's necessary to get it to register when a ball is in that place.
It could also be that the switch itself is just flaky. I had this happen on my TAF's ramp exit switch. All I had to do was to cycle the switch over and over to "clean" it up inside. Sometimes those switches get "sticky" and will just stop working. A little bit of actuating them over and over(like 50 times or so) frees them back up and they usually start responding to the light stuff again.
Try this stuff out and let us know what happens!

Appreciate it. But that is exactly what I have done three times now.
I have let the balls sit in the trough forever, with no switch errors. I have shaken the machine to death with no switch errors. I have manually served up balls with no errors. Nothing I can do will make them fail.
Yet at random times during a game it will just kick two balls into the shooter lane.
Very frustrating.
I was, in my original post, going to just replace the switches for the hell of it, but the part # 5647-09957-00 listed in the manual is not the same part that comes up on Marcos web page. So I don't even know what to order to try out new switches. Even though I don't think new switches will help.

Maybe I can try cleaning them with a toothbrush or something. Maybe there is just something sticky enough that I can't see, feel or make it stick myself.

#19 5 years ago

Well nothing has worked. I have given up trying to fix it with what I have, so back to my original first question in the thread.
What are the correct switches to order for the Twilight Zone Trough?
part # 5647-09957-00 that is listed in the manual is not correct.
How have you other Twilight Zone owners found the correct switches?

#20 5 years ago

Is your ball auto launch solenoid and gate working ? It sounds like it's trying to reload gumball machine I had a similar problem when I lost the ground wire off the auto launch coil

#21 5 years ago

Yes. Gumball auto launch and gate are working perfectly.
Both balls are served to the shooter lane, not the auto launch.
I still have not found the correct part number for these switches.
Maybe I will just call Bally Williams and ask them what they meant to put in the manual. lol.

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

Game still serves up two balls whenever it feels like it.

See the arm that kicks the ball to the shooter lane ? Make sure it isn't close to the last switch in the ball trough, if it hits it going by up or down - two balls.

LTG : )™

#23 5 years ago

Thanks Lloyd.
I have indeed checked on that.
I could not make it hit the switch by hand, but I will double check it tomorrow.
It almost has to be something inside one of the switches that can't be seen.
I am now begging anyone to post a link to the correct switch.
There are three that are exactly the same with the large bent upwards wire.

#24 5 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

I could not make it hit the switch by hand,

Coil pulling it may be different.

Be sure none of the ball trough switches are slow or sticking, shooter lane switch too.

LTG : )™

#25 5 years ago

I have an idea. Does the ball kicker have an end of stroke switch? Could it not realized it fired the first time so it fires a second time?

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from KingNine:

Does the ball kicker have an end of stroke switch?

No.

LTG : )™

#27 5 years ago

Go into switch edge test, roll a ball to the shooter lane switch. Does the switch close ? Does it stay closed ?

LTG : )™

#28 5 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

No.
LTG : )™

Ok but could something other than the switches in the trough be telling that coil to fire twice?

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from KingNine:

Ok but could something other than the switches in the trough be telling that coil to fire twice?

Shooter lane switch. Switch matrix issue.

LTG : )™

#30 5 years ago

Did you try pinball resource for switches ? Do the trough switches have the trip wire soldered on if so you get a replacement switch and re use wire . One issue i have ran into in past are wear spots in trough keeping ball from moving forward this also caused random problems .

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from pintime:

Did you try pinball resource for switches ? Do the trough switches have the trip wire soldered on if so you get a replacement switch and re use wire . One issue i have ran into in past are wear spots in trough keeping ball from moving forward this also caused random problems .

This is a great idea. (So is the matrix idea Lloyd)
I just thought the long bent wires were part of the switch. But maybe they are not really attached to the switch at all.
I will check that out.

#32 5 years ago

I had a problem with the twilight zone launching multiple balls into the shooter lane randomly. I found out that one of the trough switches was a little flaky. It worked much of the time but if I banged the trough hard enough it would trigger sometimes.

Pinball Life sells appropriate replacements

#33 5 years ago
Quoted from altan:

I had a problem with the Twilight Zone launching multiple balls into the shooter lane randomly. I found out that one of the trough switches was a little flaky. It worked much of the time but if I banged the trough hard enough it would trigger sometimes.
Pinball Life sells appropriate replacements

Thanks. I am going to check when I get home.
The part number may be correct if the wire actuator is not attached to the switch.
I never thought that they may be seperate parts.

#34 5 years ago

Found the problem finally. One of the leafs on a switch was breaking on the inside of the switch. My new switches came in but I only had to use one out of the three. If the leaf was wiggled a bit it would cause faulty readings. It was the leaf with a diode attached. No more double balls in the shooter lane.
Oh, and the wire actuators are not connected to the switches.

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