(Topic ID: 292972)

Twilight Zone Switch 73, Right Ramp, Switch 83, Left Magnet issue

By wbkwbk

3 years ago

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  • 17 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by wbkwbk
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#1 3 years ago

In Test mode I got the error Message
Check Switch 73 right ramp
Check Swith 83 left magnet
There both opto switches
I've got a Kahr US WPC Power Fix Board https://www.kahr.us/image/2017Pro.jpg, connected to J210
The red led is on which indicates according the Kahr US Manual: 5V dropped below 4.6 V
Could this be the issue - the side effect?
Is the power source for J210 the Power Driver Board connector J114 which connects to J210? And if yes how to fix this issue?
Any help is very appreciated.
Thank you

#2 3 years ago
Quoted from wbkwbk:

Could this be the issue

Doubt it.

Tests - Switch Edge - test #73 and #83 - if they don't work. Clean them. Check for broken wires at their backs.

LTG : )

#3 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Doubt it.
Tests - Switch Edge - test #73 and #83 - if they don't work. Clean them. Check for broken wires at their backs.
LTG : )

Thank you!
I've cleaned them, wires seem to look ok, still not working - so I have to search further

#4 3 years ago

You say these are optos? Most of the time the issue is that the transmitter LED is burnt out. Rarely is it the receiver LED. Order either replacement assemblies or just the IR LEDs and replace them. I bet you’ll be back up and running. Or, desolder a working opto pair from another location and use them to test with the two bad pairs before placing your order. Make sure to take pictures of what wires connect where because if you reverse them the LEDS won’t work. LEDs are a one-way electrical path.

#5 3 years ago

Instead of blindly changing the IR diodes on the opto , why not look at it on your phone with the camera ? Most cameras on mobile phones will capture the light emitted by IR diodes. If the front facing camera doesn't work , the selfie camera most likely will because it almost never has an IR filter in the lens.

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from Roamin:

Instead of blindly changing the IR diodes on the opto , why not look at it on your phone with the camera ? Most cameras on mobile phones will capture the light emitted by IR diodes. If the front facing camera doesn't work , the selfie camera most likely will because it almost never has an IR filter in the lens.

This is an awesome tip!! I never knew this and it worked perfect on my iPhone. I tested it by pointing my tv remote at the phone while pressing a button. It did not work on the regular camera but it did work on the front facing camera. I could see the light flash when pressing the remote button.

#7 3 years ago

Thank you all for your hints - great!
The camera tip was so cool. I can see the diode is emittig light.
The cause must be at the plug connections under the playfield. I have unplugged another one and then plugged it back in. Now I have additional switch error messages.
The question now is how best to patch. Contact spray try? Or reassemble the connectors?

#8 3 years ago

If you have a "reset patch" board fitted it could be your 12V rail has failed even further. The optos use the 12V rail and this could be a sign that your main power board finally needs attention?

#9 3 years ago

@pins4u, thank you, yes, I fear it is a main power board issue that has to be analyzed further
What do you think, could it make sense to get a all new board anyway? This board is now over 30 Years old, and one connector has already burn marks.
Would you rather get a: https://www.pinballlife.com/rottendog-williamsbally-wpc-driver-board.html?

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#10 3 years ago

Unless your original boards have damage beyond repair (very doubtful) I would have them checked / repaired. Even if these boards are 30 years old, they were well enough built that if they receive the care they deserve they could last another 30..they are the easiest boards to work on and are very well documented. If you ever do replace them, put them up for sale, someone will pick them up to repair for sure.

Do you have a multi meter ? The power circuit for the different voltages is very easy to measure / test and anyone can learn the basics to test it. Those burned marks should be taken care of as early as possible as it will only cause more issues as time goes by. You asked about J210 earlier , this connector does bring the power to the CPU and to the switches / optos . As mentionned it's possible (and very likely) that the 12v is no longer high enough and causes that issue with the optos, because if the 12v is too low the OpAmp monitoring the signal will always perceive the signal so low that it registers as closed.

The fact that you are using a reset board point to the fact you've had power issues for a while. I don't know much about that board , but you'd think with the the amount of pinballs they manufactured over the years, they'd be able to build a 5V rail that doesn't require another board to make sure the most important voltage in the machine doesn't drop.. If you need that board it's because other parts of the machine are failing.

To test things further , you'll need a multi meter and a few pointers. The issue could very well be elsewhere and not power related directly, but unless the power is ruled out first , you waste your time looking elsewhere.

The only "visual" tests you can do is carefully look at the CPU board to make sure there isn't any battery acid damage on the board (that will surely cause all sorts of weird things with switches) and to remove the boards and to look behind important connectors like J101 , J210, to make sure the solder joints aren't cracked and broken, but if you don't have a soldering iron or don't know anyone who has one , you'll only confirm that the boards needs a bit of care.

If I were you , the money you're willing to spend on buying new boards should be put towards having those connectors changed first and have the power distribution board checked. Even with new boards , those connectors need changing. A proper repair is to change all parts of the connector , housing, crimps and pins. The basic things to test are easy and with help from people here you can easily learn more on how to keep your 3 pins top shape.

#11 3 years ago

Hi Roamin
Many thanks for this very helpful reply. I will do so. First I have to buy a multimeter now

#12 3 years ago

I seem to recall a similar issue where I had the wrong connector plug into this circuit. Like the opto harness for the left spiral was plugged into the wrong connector on the main harness as it was able to reach and their was no poke yoke. Not sure if this is your same issue. I’d also check the 10 opto board under the playfield and make sure you don’t have a loose connection.

#13 3 years ago

You have a burned GI connector in need of new pins on the board and a new connector. Size .156

Circled in red in the picture.

LTG : )

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#14 3 years ago

I have found a loose cable JS-10 White-Orange from J208-3 on the Custom Opto SW10 P.C.B. Assembly
A-16807 circuit board. How do I make this contact? Solder the cable together and then squeeze it in by hand, not at the soldering point. Or do I need a special tool for this?

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#15 3 years ago

After I fixed the broken cable at the opto board, i get the very popular error message: Check F115, F116 Fuse, J112, Opto 12V. Now I have to start checking the power driver board. When I google this error I get several clues for possible causes, I will check them all now.

#17 3 years ago

Issue is fixed, all fhe fuses were fine, and also all the power driver board test points measured with the correct voltage.
The issue was that the ground was not properly connected on the 10-Switch Opto PCB Assembly.
I also have to replace the burnt J120 connector. It's currently disconnected. On power-up there are no more error messages
Thank you all for your support, very appreciated!

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