(Topic ID: 21971)

Twilight zone sound dropping

By RunninMan01

11 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 22 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by Pintucky
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 11 years ago

I posted about this problem about a month ago and now I'm back, after what's been hours and hours of troubleshooting. My problem is fairly simple: the sound on my TZ randomly drops out (volume to near zero) during play. No rhyme or reason to the problem.

I've already done the following:

- replaced all sound-related ribbon cables (actually all but 1 cable in total)
- checked all cables to ensure they're not seated improperly, same for the non-soldered chips
- most importantly, replaced the original sound board with a new board.

I thought the sound board replacement would solve my problem. It didn't, but it did prove that my problem isn't with the sound card.

For 300 bucks I can get a brand new power driver board. I want to isolate this problem (last time it sounded like everyone thought it was the capacitors on the PDB), THEN fix it by repairing what's broken. Am I making a good gamble to assume the problem is with the power driver board? My thought here is that I replace the board, the problem goes away, then I go to town troubleshooting the older board.

#2 11 years ago

Is this your only machine? Unfortunately, the new power driver board you refer to is probably a rottendog, right? While those work great in many cases, I have found them to be a nightmare in two machines: twilight zone and sttng. With two rottendog boards and three machines (two Tz and one sttng) the rottendog boards were constant reset nightmares - the games would inteittently reset. I finally swapped the rottendog boards into another machine taking those boards for Tz and all machines were happy.

That being said, my opinion is that your issue could be power board related, heat related, or CPU board related. Also could be speaker issues.

Maybe you can describe the situation better. I believe the speakers in TZ are wired in one series. If one wire was flaky then the whole sound set up would cut out entirely.

To eliminate heat, perhaps play with your back board panel open.

Otherwise you're looking at CPU or power board.

#3 11 years ago

I'm having the same issue on my TZ. Swapped a WH2O sound board in and have the same problem still. Need to look at the speakers still and crossover stuff, if those caps are acting up it might cause the problem.

#4 11 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Is this your only machine? Unfortunately, the new power driver board you refer to is probably a rottendog, right?

Yep, my only machine and yes, it does appear that RD boards are the only ones available. Super bummed to hear you say that your didn't work out.

Quoted from markmon:

That being said, my opinion is that your issue could be power board related, heat related, or CPU board related. Also could be speaker issues.

So I'm down to 1) power board 2) CPU board (or chip?) or 3) physical speaker issue.

Quoted from markmon:

Maybe you can describe the situation better. I believe the speakers in TZ are wired in one series. If one wire was flaky then the whole sound set up would cut out entirely.

The situation is as follows: the sound never 100% drops out...it just drops super low. I don't hear any loud crackling or anything that would indicate that a speaker wire is frayed and losing contact. It also isn't consistently a problem. I've had stretched of 15-20 minutes where I haven't heard any issue at all, then all of a sudden it's happening again. I can take an audio sample of the problem and put it on Youtube if that would make it easier to understand.

When it happens, the sound drops out for anywhere from 1-5 seconds at a time, sometime a little longer (total bummer for gameplay, as you can imagine). Then it comes back full force. Then a couple of minutes later it drops out again, sometimes a minute later and sometimes 10 minutes later. Totally inconsistent and hard to replicate the problem.

The machine is in my basement where it's quite cool all the time. I hadn't thought of playing with the backglass removed and the door open but that sounds like a good idea. I guess that would tell me whether it's a heat-related problem or not.

The guy who sold me this machine told me that the capacitors on the power driver board were replaced and they look brand new, so I'm less inclined to think it's a power driver issue. I guess I could break out the voltmeter and try testing them again, but I'm not sure I understand how a capacitor is properly tested. I know how to test for resistance and volts, but not sure how to test caps....

Testing the speaker wire configuration sounds interesting. Any thoughts on how I'd do this?

#5 11 years ago
Quoted from RunninMan01:

so I'm less inclined to think it's a power driver issue.

Sorry quoting my own text...less inclined to think it's a capacitor-related power driver issue (since they appear new). It could still very well be a power driver board issue.

#6 11 years ago

When the sound drops, is it possible that say the backbox cut out and the sound you hear is only from the cabinet. Or something like this? I think that might make it sound like the vol decreased.

#7 11 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

When the sound drops, is it possible that say the backbox cut out and the sound you hear is only from the cabinet. Or something like this? I think that might make it sound like the vol decreased.

I suppose that's possible, but I'm not sure what sounds come out of the backbox versus the other speakers, so it's hard to say. There have been a few times where the sound died down so much that I honestly thought the sound was 100% off.

One other thing I should mention: this machine has two other problems, both of which I thought were unrelated but might be playing in here:

1) the DMD is going out...fuzzy around the edges, pulsating fuzz on the lettering, etc. Doesn't happen all the time, but it comes and goes. I've noticed it's more pronounced/obvious when you start the machine, play a game, then reset during the (with the little button on the inside of the door). I've been resetting games to try and test the sound and notice it that right after reset the fuzziness is the worst. I didn't care much about this problem because I heard they were coming out with LED DMD displays in the next few months and wanted to upgrade anyways

2) there's a blown transistor (I'm positive, found it and everything) on the power board that controls the solenoid that governs the "shooter diverter," which is that little silver thing that lets the pinball load into either the manual plunger or the automatic plunger. The transistor blew and the solenoid got stuck in "always-on" on mode and burned out. I've got a replacement solenoid and transistor already, but was waiting to solve the sound problem before trying to fix that problem

#8 11 years ago

Regarding the blown transistor - I thought I had a genius moment when I realized that the transistor controls the shooter diverter, which is only toggled to ON in rare moments in the game, like when certain multiballs start. Since the transistor is blow, I was thinking maybe the random drops are caused by the machine trying to fire off an ON command to the shooter diverter every time a multiball happened that would use the shooter diverter. But then I played through, got a multiball that would utilize the shooter diverter, and nothing happening to the sound. Sigh.

#9 11 years ago

Stupid question - how can I test the speakers to make sure it's not just a speaker wiring problem?

#10 11 years ago

Could it be the amp overheating?

#11 11 years ago
Quoted from RunninMan01:

Stupid question - how can I test the speakers to make sure it's not just a speaker wiring problem?

see if you get resistance in the value of the speaker (no idea if they are but would assume 8ohm speakers)

#12 11 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

When the sound drops, is it possible that say the backbox cut out and the sound you hear is only from the cabinet. Or something like this? I think that might make it sound like the vol decreased.

I'm the case of my issue I don't think so, if I'm watch the game fro the side and it drops for the other players ball I can clearly hear it coming very quietly from the back box. I assume its the same for the OP.

#13 11 years ago
Quoted from Spudgunman:

see if you get resistance in the value of the speaker (no idea if they are but would assume 8ohm speakers)

4ohm in TZ

#14 11 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

Could it be the amp overheating?

That's what it acts like but if it is its caused by something off the sound board. Ive swapped boards in mine and still had the issue, plus it can happen a minute or 2 after powerup.

#15 11 years ago

Have the same issue with my fishtales. I am sure it is a capacitor issue, interesting to here changing the soundboard did nothing. Hard to think the speakers are the issue as it would be a consistent problem rather than a random one for me.

#16 11 years ago

Hey guys,

Is there any reason why the big speaker in the cabinet of the pin uses slip-on contacts to connect the wire to speaker versus just using solder? I want to remove "weak contact" at this speaker by just soldering the ends of the wires directly to the speaker contacts. Any reason I shouldn't be doing that?

#17 11 years ago
Quoted from MSN22:

Have the same issue with my fishtales. I am sure it is a capacitor issue, interesting to here changing the soundboard did nothing. Hard to think the speakers are the issue as it would be a consistent problem rather than a random one for me.

There are capacitors on both the sound card and on the power driver board, right? Which ones are usually the culprits when it comes to sounds? I assume it's normally the sound board acting up.

Such a bummer that it's so hard to test capacitors.

#18 11 years ago

The cabinet speaker and the back box speaker produce the same sounds on TZ (pre-dcs). The only difference is the cabinet speaker is in the cabinet and larger. So if the backbox cut out, you would get a sort of a muffled flat sound kind of hard to hear. If you crank up the volume and play the game, when it happens, you can put your ear up to the backbox and also open the coindoor and see where the sound is(n't) coming from.

I wouldn't bother testing the speaker impedance. If that was way off, it wouldn't be intermittent issues. I actually think on Pre-DCS, we have an 8 ohm cabinet speaker, 2 4 ohm backbox speakers wired in series, and the cabinet + backbox wired in parallel for a net 4 ohm load on the single amp. But I cannot be sure without actually tearing the whole thing apart and looking. You can test it though. Pull the speaker leads off your cabinet speaker and see if you have any sound at all. If not, its probably wired in series (or it's glitching out at that moment). If you do have sound in your backbox still, it's probably wired in parallel. (Dont let those speaker ends touch accidentally).

#19 11 years ago

I had a similar case once and found that one of the speaker coils were intermittent.

#20 11 years ago

Thanks guy, I think i'll give a new round of testing and see what I can find as far as parallel/series. Hoping they're series and maybe the series is partially broken somewhere

4 weeks later
#21 11 years ago

Sorry if I'm off topic as I only read your original post, but we also experienced some minor sound dropping with TZ when we put in a new sound chip. It' minor. Only two sounds we noticed to be quieter were the sound at ball launch and the Hitchhiker door panel award. We were kind of ticked because that is one of the coolest sounds the machine makes when you have like 50 hitchies. Sounds like a machine gun! (silenced machine gun in our case).

When I put a new CPU board in yesterday the hitchhiker is blasting like it used to but the ball launch is still quiet. I can tell because if you don't make it up and have to launch again, the second one starts quiet and then kicks up a few db at the end. This was entirely unexpected as we changed the board for a different reason, but it makes sense that problems with the CPU can manifest in almost any part of the machine. Probably not the answer to all your questions but that's my two cents.

#22 11 years ago

I'm voting on two things.

1. The problem is in the CPU. That's where it was in mine. I had the same problems you are describing. There is a chip or something on that CPU that can go bad and cause sound dropout. There is nothing probably wrong with your sound system or sound ROMS, cards, etc.

2. The amp could be over heating.

If you put in a Rottondog ANYTHING, then this is your problem. They are not compatible with a TZ. Wrong specs for voltage and will not get in sync with the old system.

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