Québec, QC
Quoted from gac:Here's my topper. No wiring necessary!
[quoted image]
Cool. Is it screwed or is it just double sided taped?
(Topic ID: 63352)
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Twilight Zone
Bally, 1993
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Quoted from gac:I put a rubberish, no slip material on the entire bottom that keeps it from moving. That, along with the weight of it (it's quite heavy with all the pinballs in it) keep it secure.
Love it.....
The pinballs in it is what makes me like it......
good idea. 
By the way, I also have a plasma ball but on the playfield, when the powerball insert lights up, the plasma ball activates as well.
I'll post a video next weekend.
Quoted from atg1469:Would love to see it! I saw these for sale as a mod a long time ago but they were already discontinued at that point. Would still love to find a way to get one in there!
I did'nt buy it as a TZ mod, I made it myself. I can explain how I did it when I post a video.
Here's a video of my TZ plasma mod, not the best video but I decided not to make another video since I did'nt know how to start all over again with my wife's cell phone.
...and for those who wanted to know how it's made.
I bought this 6 volt relay on Ebay: ebay.com link: itm
I already had this mini plasma ball but mine was supposed to be plugged in the wall: ebay.com link: itm
see pictures on how I connected everything and ask if there something you don't understand, it'll b a pleasure to explain.
DSC_0588 (resized).JPGDSC_0589 (resized).JPGDSC_0590 (resized).JPGDSC_0591 (resized).JPGDSC_0592 (resized).JPGDSC_0593 (resized).JPGDSC_0594 (resized).JPGDSC_0595 (resized).JPGQuoted from atg1469:very very cool!! I’m assuming you went with this version because it was 5V? I’m going to try to recreate this but I want to find a sphere that doesn’t have the XMas theme in it.
No, you could put in any plasma ball, any size, any voltage you want because the ball is activited by the transformer plugged direct into the ON/OFF switch on the game, when the game is turned on, the plasma ball power turns ON, the ball is activated by the relay which is plugged with aligator clips on the POWER BALL insert light.
Mine is exactly like this one, it does'nt have the XMas theme either: ebay.com link: itm
Quoted from ray-dude:Fantastic post! Appreciate the guidance on how to use a relay for AC powered mods (thank you).
I have some of these on order:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256801497905332.html
DC powered flat plasma disks, sound activated. When they get here, I'll post some pics and report here.
Yes, please do keep us posted.
can't wait to see how you'll install these in your game.
Quoted from ray-dude:Absolutely! I was inspired by your post to experiment with these (thank you!). I have 4 different colors in bound
By the way, I learned how to use relays when I made this game 10 years ago:
I also made this TZ mod a few month ago:
Here's an explanation of how I made it and why I made:
When I bought my TZ a few months ago, I was looking for a few interresting mods for it on Ebay, well, I found out that pretty much all of the same mods that were available 10 years ago are still available now a days with maybe a few more except that they now are 3 times the price they were without counting shipping that has exploded in the past few years. I was looking at this mod: ebay.com link: itm
it has the head lights that flash when the ball hits the bumers, I was thinking "what if I had a car that turned when the ball hits the bumpers instead? after a couplev weeks of thinking it over and looking at the different options I had, my plan was made, first I found the exact same car that you see in the Ebay link, in other words, I know where the guy buys his 1955 Ford Thunderbird model cars he modifies and resells on Ebay for 7 time it's actual price (that was a few month ago, prices have gone up) ebay.com link: itm
So I bought this car, bought a 6V to 12V low RPM motor off Ebay: ebay.com link: itm
, bought this voltage step down as well: ebay.com link: itm
and now I had everything I needed to do my mod, I connected the votage step down to the 20V flasher socket just beside the pop bumpers, adjusted to 7 volt output, connected the motor on the step down, installed the car on the motor pinion, installed the assembly on a small sheet of polycarbonate which is installed on top of the bumper plastics and lower pop bumper as well, step down is hidden between the 2 plastics.
3 months later
Quoted from AD72:I am getting a gumball geneva switch error on startup. It did not affect gameplay for a long time but now the gumball machine is not working. Are there any step by step instructions for removing the gumball machine? I can see the switch on the underside but it looks like it would be better to access by taking the gumball machine out.
The manual has step by step instructions at page 1-54 plus at page 1-55 you have a playfield diagram to make it even more easy.
It's quite easy to remove, I removed it 2 weeks ago.
Quoted from Frogroar:I don’t get it.
He Means removing the Z connectors and soldering the wires together.
I think I'll do it on my TZ this week.
Hey everyone.
You have come to the end of your journey......
This is what I get before a can finish my three balls on every game I play on TZ since yesterday, I get Lost In The Zone each time, what could possibly be wrong ?
I just don't get it. 
Can anyone help me here ?
Thanks in advance.
Quoted from Coyote:Did you mean to attach a picture? Or did something get lost in translation?
Sorry, I'd like to laugh with you, but I don't get it.
Unless it's the link between "Lost in translation" and "Lost in the Zone" that you mean?
Quoted from Pinkitten:Mine was born 5/25/93. But was later heavily restored with a new playfield and cabinet, so…reborn? I decided to go with polished chrome from Chris Royalty for my armor upgrade. My son can damn well put himself through college.
That's funny, mine is of the same date.
I wonder how many TZ's Williams made each day?
1 week later
Quoted from BioBa:Sexy! Engraved shooter housing.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Beautifull, did you make it yourself or did you buy it somewhere?
I found where they sell the engraved shooter housing but a little too expensive for my budget.
https://pinballhaus.com/shop/mods/hand-engraved-shooter-housings/?fbclid=IwAR2jDFZoXweKw0PTG8BtvO-Pr44r0EB67K5Ifx7V4wLTuVMdmJzcuR234q8&v=3e8d115eb4b3
Quoted from jid:235 AUD is about 150 US. The exchange rate is rather favorable. Or there is the Pinside Store for them.
I did the same thing though… saw the price and winced. Then I ordered one!
Oh! I did'nt notice that the dollars were Australien dollars, much better price now.
2 weeks later
What are Radcals? So, if I understand well, Radcals are just like cabinet decals only a little thicker and mostly with a high gloss finish, like as if it was clearcoated with automotive clear. Right?
If that's the case, then I'll keep my TZ cabinet as is and will clearcoat it next summer, just like I did with my RFM.
IMG_9233 (resized).JPGQuoted from Richard-NBA-SF2:Looking great guys!
My CV I just got has Rad Cals. [quoted image]
Hey, that CV really looks nice Richard. I'm happy to know that you already received it.
Did you know that CV is my name initials? Claude Veilleux
I once installed a third magnet, with the third magnet kits Pinbits use to sell many years ago, on a TZ I use to have about 10 years ago.
Fun project and 3 ball catch multi-ball is really cool.
Drilling the playfield was the scariest part but everything went smooth because I followed the instructions religiously.
Quoted from Richard-NBA-SF2:That looks amazing!!
Was that for sale recently?
Richard
Not for sale but only for trade for a TSPP.
https://www.maaca.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=28038
The game comes with a SWEP1 PF and both PF's are clearcoated as well.
I'm happy either way, if I keep the package, or if I find a TSPP.
1 week later
Here's my topper set up, only thing missing is pinballs in the gumball machine.
I bought the game with the pyramid/eye topper which had 4 screws holding it down on the head
I added the gumball machine and it's held on top by one of the head bolts, the car is held by a metal stick that is screwed into one of the pyramid screws, exactly the same thing for the blue sign, I have'nt figured out yet how to hold the door behind the sign.
IMG_9311 (resized).JPGIMG_9312 (resized).JPGQuoted from Gorgar666:Nice, I couldn’t drive a screw on the top Backbox willingly….just me…
Me neither...... that's why I pointed out that I bought the game with the pyramid topper already screwed and that I used the existing screws/holes to mount everthing else I added.
When I first saw that the topper was screwed after buying, I was a little discouraged......
I just added a home made mod on my TZ, I was planning to add a Clock Millions mod from the beginning that I bought my TZ but these Mods on Ebay are a little too pricy for me.
ebay.com link: itm
One is 160$ CAD with shipping and the other is more than 200$ CAD with shipping, plus, they are not made of solid brass like the ones that were sold about 15 years ago, they look cheap, I remember buying one of solid shiny brass for a TZ I had 15 years ago.
So I decided to make my own, I bought this solid brass pocket watch housing off Ebay for only 35$ CAD shipping included:
ebay.com link: itm
and a small solid brass bell off Marketplace I paid 5$ on which I cut the top part of the bell to get a miniature bell.
I printed this from Marco's and zoomed it really smaller (4 cm diameter) and added the missing numbers, 3 , 6, 9, and 12 with numbers I found on the net and printed.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/31-1751-3P
I cut a small round piece of policarbonate to make the clock glass, I polished everything before building it and added a LED behind the paper, connected to the clock millions lamp.
I'm quite happy with the results and it's shiny and nicer the the ones on Ebay.
IMG_9318 (resized).JPGIMG_9319 (resized).JPGIMG_9320 (resized).JPGIMG_9321 (resized).JPG
Quoted from Pinkitten:Very nice, creative clock mod! I bought the first one you mentioned with the rotating minute hand. It’s expensive, I agree. I do like it a lot. The minute hand rotates and the face lights up when clock modes are active, or when you hit the clock target. It would be even better if made of brass! It’s made of some sort of metal. My issue is keeping it protected from ball strikes. I mounted a large, clear washer under it, and that seems to do the trick for now. A larger, rounded clear protector would be better!
[quoted image]
Yes, I agree that this clock is very cool, but it's too expensive for my taste......
The large plastic round washer is a great idea, I think I'll copy, I hope you don't mind.
Quoted from A1k71:So it's a normal behavior controlled by the ROM?
Yes, perfectly normal, does it all the time when I play with my wife.
Quoted from delt31:Thanks! I knew mine was wrong. Doesn't make sense considering how Pat designs games. Question now is what to adjust but I'll wait for some feedback and when I have some time to tweak.
I would adjust the mini flipper so that it makes the ball slide
Quoted from jackd104:I once put pinballs in a gum machine like that and the glass broke. It just wasn’t designed to hold that much weight. So just use caution or maybe something clever like fill the middle with some material and just balls on the outside.
Sorry, I quoted the wrong post.
Quoted from jackd104:I once put pinballs in a gum machine like that and the glass broke. It just wasn’t designed to hold that much weight. So just use caution or maybe something clever like fill the middle with some material and just balls on the outside.
Thanks for sharing, I'll try something clever..... but I don't know what yet, I'll think about it for a few weeks while I'm making mods for other games.
I found these to be less expensive than Pinball life.
ebay.com link: itm
Quoted from GILV:I found these to be less expensive than Pinball life.
ebay.com link: itm
Never mind my post, I just checked and Pinball Life is cheaper.
I wish I could order from them, I once tried and in no way he would let me order, I had to order through a friend who had some family members in the U.S. , otherwise, they won't accept to sell to someone who has an address in Canada, they chack with the address on the Paypal orders .... Why? beats me? Many Pinheads from Canada have also tried and it was always an issue......
Quoted from LTG:Did you check Planetary Pinball Supply or Marco Specialties ?
And instead of kits, did you try pricing just the plungers assemblies - 2 left 2 right, 4 coil stops, 4 coil sleeves ?
LTG : )
Hey, thanks for the tips. I'll check that out.
Quoted from GILV:Never mind my post, I just checked and Pinball Life is cheaper.
I wish I could order from them, I once tried and in no way he would let me order, I had to order through a friend who had some family members in the U.S. , otherwise, they won't accept to sell to someone who has an address in Canada, they chack with the address on the Paypal orders .... Why? beats me? Many Pinheads from Canada have also tried and it was always an issue......
I've got to correct myself, I just realized that I made a mistake, it was'nt Pinball Life that refuses to sell to Canadians, it's Mad Amusements.
I'm sorry about the confusion.......
1 week later
Quoted from monkfe:I didn't look up the schematic, but I assume the motor driver board reveres the polarity at the motor depending on whether its going forward or backward...are you seeing this reversal in test with the motor removed?
Good assumption, I can confirm that it does
Quoted from awesome1:I HAVE to play some TZ during the New Year's TZ marathon on SYFY every year and I don't think I've defeated The Power TWICE in a row this quickly before...
congradualtion. How long have you had TZ?
What's your average at defeating the power?
I usually successfully defeat the power every 6 or 7 times.
Anybody here add a Pinsound system and kept the original WPC panel speakers in their game and found the results to be significant enough?
I want to add a subwoofer to the cabinet but I want to keep the panel speakers original.
Will this do a good job of giving a good sound to my TZ?
Quoted from ray-dude:First rule of TZ:
If something with an opto is flakey, replace the optos
Second rule:
If you pull a part with multiple optos to test or repair, replace all the optos
Amazing how many gremlins these rules put down (I had same issue with flippers, replacing optos fixed them)
What I did, is clean my TZ flipper optos and stripped every flipper to polish every metal from them, after this job, all of the flippers were very strong and I could easilly make the ramps.
Are there Fliptronic boards on Pin2000 games?
I'm having the same issue with my RFM.
Quoted from awesome1:Thanks! Yeah, I just used the original paper as a template, so I don't have a drawing file. Correct, 1/8" Lexan.
Can anybody explain the difference between Lexan and Polycarbonate, I would use polycarbonate since it's very easy to cut and drill without shattering/cracking it, plus it's unbreakable, Polycarbonate is what they use to make pinball plastic protectors.
It's so easy to work with that I've always made my own plastic protectors for the last 15 years.
I use a scroll saw to cut polycarbonate, very easy to cut tight round corners with it.....
Quoted from awesome1:Lexan actually is Polycarbonate.
Thanks, I Googled it and here's what came up:
Yes, they are the same thing. Lexan™ is a brand name for polycarbonate manufactured by Sabic Innovative Plastic. We offer both Lexan™ and Makrolon® brand polycarbonate sheet.
Quoted from Coyote:Camera or Slot Machine?
Thanks for the effort but I got an answer from the creator himself, this mod was made by Judge Dredd pinball mods.
Could someone please explain in another way because I don't quite understand what he means by "+goes to lamp tab that runs to the centre of the lamp holder/lamp" , plus, I can't really see where this bracket could mount in the shooterlane hole?
Here's his answer:
the small metal bracket is the shooterlane hole light, should have crocs on it and connects to a GI lamp, previous owner has removed crocs and soldered which is a better option, I advise you do the same, +goes to lamp tab that runs to the centre of the lamp holder/lamp.
Thanks.
Maybe it's just my rusty english since english is not my first language but I appreciate any help.
Quoted from Green-Machine:Try putting it on a Judge Dredd since that is what it is made for. Seems logical to me.
Judge Dredd Pinball Mods is a seller, not a Pinball machine, I have art blades for my TZ that came from them:
https://mezelmods.com/collections/judge-dredd-pinball-mods
Quoted from Manny65:His mods normally come with instructions, maybe ask him if you could get a copy of them?
I found this one advertised https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281744327170, however I'm not sure that it's the same as it's described as interactive yet the above message indicates it's powered from the GI. His comment regarding the positive wire is just so that you wire it the correct way as LEDs have + and - connectors (unlike incandescent lamps that can be wired either way) - so connect the red wire to the positive side of the GI wiring (which is the centre of the lamp socket that holds #44 bulb)
Thanks for explaining, now I get it.....
Yeah, it's not exactly the same, mine is for the shooterlane hole, the one on Ebay for the shooterlane itself, so, mine is not interactive.
I just received a response from the seller and installed it, here's where it goes (see picture) and here's what he says:
if you remove the metal shooter lane scoop under the playfield, it will use the same mounts, hole is for switch wire to poke through playfield, led point at scoop.
Great mod, well thought of....
IMG_9410 (resized).JPGQuoted from Skatewake:Can we get a picture or short video of it working? looks like something I would want.
Thanks,
I just tested it and the LED's don't work, don't know what happened between the sellers place and here......
I just ordered these (3mm ones ) and as soon as I get them, I'll solder them to the bracket and will make a video for you.
ebay.com link: itm
Quoted from monkfe:did you try reversing the leads?
Yep!
I also tested if there was good contact between the tip of the wires up to the LED tips and all was good, they're out alright.....
3 weeks later
Quoted from d0n:yes the entire panel, dmd, speakers... everything. If you do buy one from Stumblor in london england... ask him to pack it well so it arrives unbroken.
I bought my HDCOLORDMD from an Australien seller, packaged very well with many layers of bubble wrap.
provided me with detailed instructions, very nice guy as well, answered all of my multiple questions with patience.
It's 689$ CAD, I thought it was AUS but my mistake.
https://retrocity.com.au/products/pin2dmdhd
.....by the way,
Quoted from d0n:This is how the expensive Twilight Zone pin2dmd came packed from Stumblor. One layer of thin, small bubble wrap in a box that's too big.
The empty space inside the box allowed the fragile dmd to flop around all the way from London England to Atlanta Georgia.
Of course it arrived broken.
This weekend my TZ is scheduled to go to a local shop for a full "HEP style restoration" with radcals, cointaker leds, titan rubber kit, pin2dmd and more.
Stumblor wants to send a single new led panel that my resto guy will have to install in the pin2dmd. Then we all can pray nothing else is broken that isn't as obvious to the eye.
Or I can return my unit and then they'll send another one out. That process could take a month or more.
It's disappointing to have something so fragile and expensive packed so carelessly that it arrives broken. And then to have the seller do the absolute minimum to rectify the situation.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
By the way, your panel seems like it's made of wood, right?
Mine is made of metal.
Quoted from LTG:Take a break.
Then look it over. Think it over. Thanks to tests and your finger, you know it works. What is different when a ball is on it ?
LTG : )
Yeah, "think it over" over and over, and then, think of something else for a while...... and you'll surely find the solution.
2 weeks later
Quoted from ProjektPat:I just joined this club by taking on one of the most massive projects of my life.
It's a machine that was flooded with sea water in a hurricane last year. I got the cabinet for 7k as well as a replacement TZ cabinet that isn't water damaged to put everything in. The game boots up currently. It looks like the water made it up to the 2 pcbs on the bottom layer of the back box. I've been working on it for the past 2 days endlessly. These are currently the issues.
- There is no sound at all
- Many connectors on the power driver board in the backbox are scorched and brittle
- When booting, it gives the error "Check fuses F115 and F116, J112 and opto 12v supply
- The menu buttons do nothing but that could just be that they're not plugged in or something.
I've already gone through every PCB underneath the playfield and derusted, resoldered, retraced etc. and everything seems to be working although I have no way to test the boards that do anything other than illuminate the playfield.
Any suggestions on the problems I've listed to help me on my journey? All in all I'm thinking I can get this thing back to life for around 1k or less and have a twilight zone for 8k.
Good luck on the repairs, Welcome to the club.
Hey everyone.
I just turned my TZ on this morning and noticed that the pop bumpers were'nt working, I searched for a broken wire but nothing, after a little investigation I found out that every switch that has a green/orange wire connected to it was not working, so that's the 3 left inlane and outlane switches, the 2 slingshot switches and the 3 pop bumpers. When I start a game, if I manuall activate all of the switches one after the other, there will always be 1 coil that will activate (slings and pops) but after, nothing, I have to turn the game off and on again and start another game to be able to activate another coil manually.
I went into test mod and slings and pops work great, it's in single switch test mod that something weird happens..... is'nt there supposed to be only one spot per switch activated? check the video, there is one whole line of switches activated and if I press each of the pop bumper switches, it's a whole line that lights up.
Can anybody give me a hint as to what is wrong here?
Thanks.
I found this on Pinwiki, what do you think?
Since it's one whole row (green/orange) in the Switch matrix that is blown, maybe it's a CPU chip?
The Chips that Control the Switch Matrix.
The switch columns are controlled by a single 18 pin ULN2803 chip on the CPU board at position U20. The switch rows are controlled by two LM339 chips on the CPU board at positions U18 and U19. The direct switch rows are controlled by two LM339 chips on the CPU board at positiion U16 and U17. These chip designations apply to all WPC generations.
On WPC-S and WPC-95 games, the ULN2803 that controls the switch columns on the CPU board is socketed. On all other WPC games up to 1994 this chip is not socketed. When a series of switches goes out, it tends to be the ULN2803 at U20 (all WPC revisions) that fails. Williams recognized this, and started socketing this chip with WPC-S. On WPC-S CPU boards, the ULN2803 chip is underneath the battery sub-board. ULN2803 is equivalent to NTE2018. If U20 dies "hard", it could also blow the 74LS374 at U14 (on WPC-95 it's U23, a 74HC237) on the CPU board.
The LM339 chips that control the switch rows at U18 and U19 (all WPC revisions) tend to fail less often. LM339 is equivalent to NTE834. There are also two more LM339 CPU board chips at U16 and U17 (all WPC revisions). These two chips control the direct switches (coin door, diagnostics, etc). These do not fail often either.
Quoted from DumbAss:Consider disconnecting the Custom Opto SW10 board (A-16807). Disconnect J5 and try your switch edge test again.
Shotgun replacement of parts without proper diagnosis is generally not recommended. Isolate the cause to a location (CPU board, Opto board or playfield wiring) and then dig in further.
Thanks for the help.
Tried the custom opto board SW10 board test you suggested and I still have the same results/problem, so now I know the problem comes from the CPU..... Right?
Quoted from DumbAss:Disconnect the connectors at J206/J207/J208/J209. Repeat your test. If you get the same results then you know with fairly high certainty that your problem is on the CPU board. If you disconnect J212, run the test again and get the same result then that will give you 100% confidence. Disconnecting J212 may result in a "check fuse" message that you can safely ignore.
Thanks. after testing CPU is faulty for sure. I'm pretty sure it's the U20 chip.
Quoted from GILV:Thanks. after testing CPU is faulty for sure. I'm pretty sure it's the U20 chip.
But now I need to find out if it's really the U20 chip that I need to replace.
I don't have the schematics manual for WPC, can anyone please let me know if the green/orange wire switch row is linked to the U20 chip or not? If not, which chip is it linked to on the CPU?
Thanks.
Quoted from LTG:Rows are U20 columns are LM339's.
LTG : )
Hey thanks, so I need to replace U20.
I read Pinwiki very closely and I found this at the end of the Switch matrix section: Quote:
"If multiple switch closures are reported when you touch one pin of the connector, or if the CPU reports a row or column short, then there is a fault with the switch matrix circuitry on the CPU board itself. Be aware that an additional fault may still be present on the playfield. Switch matrix chips do not simply blow for no reason!"
So I went and searched for a short between a coil wire with a switch wire of some sort......I had bought a flasher mod for the slings (they are connected to the coils) that had flahing lights when the bumpers were hit, well the 3 LED's under the sling plastics are inter connected with a wire form that is not isolated, when one of th balls came and hit sling hard enough the switch leaf went and touched the wire form and blew the U20 chip. so not only did I find the cause but I also know what part of the CPU is wrong because that CAN cause to blow a chip according to this quote:
"One fairly common reason that a ULN2803 or other switch matrix circuitry may blow is a short to coil power. In the picture at left, the coil that actuates the "Bridge Diverter" on the game Twilight Zone, is touching the coil bracket on one side. Since coil power is present at both coil lugs (which is normal), a coil lug touching metal will conduct coil power to that metal. In this case, the coil bracket touches the bridge diverter piano wire and then the coil diverter and then the entire wireform. If a switch matrix solder tab or switch blade metal shorts to the wireform, poof! Get ready to replace the ULN2803."
1 week later
Quoted from Steininger:What piano mod did you guys decided on for your TZ? Recommended seller/dealer?
I made my own, I paid 10$ CAD on Marketplace, trinkit, cut it/drilled it myself, it's got to be the good size though if you want it to fit well, lot's of searching, but is'nt that the fun part of owning pinball machines, working on them to make them nicer.....?
Made of synthetic resin, very strong.
Quoted from DumbAss:Consider disconnecting the Custom Opto SW10 board (A-16807). Disconnect J5 and try your switch edge test again.
Shotgun replacement of parts without proper diagnosis is generally not recommended. Isolate the cause to a location (CPU board, Opto board or playfield wiring) and then dig in further.
My switch problem is fixed, thanks for your help.
This is the mod I bought: flasher lights activate when ball hits the slings, these are 50V bulbs that are connected to each sling coil, the switch went and touched the wire form that relates the 3 bulbs together under the slinfshot plastics and "boom", the ULN2803 chip (U20) blew.
I put a socket on U20, so if it happens again, I'll just replace the chip, I don't think it will happen again because I applied epoxy glue on the wire form under the slings.
If anyone wants a ULN2803 chip or a 74LS374 chip, let me know, I bought 10 of each and 10X 18 pin sockets and 10X 20 pin sockets, so If you need those as well, no problem.
I posted a picture of the finished job as well.
IMG_9691 (resized).JPGIMG_9694 (resized).JPGIMG_9690 (resized).JPGQuoted from DumbAss:Wow. That's definitely an interesting way to connect a modification to the system. I would NOT recommend using that method. There are other ways to achieve this functionality without such risk.
Examples:A (strategically placed) reed switch should be able to detect the change in the magnetic field when the solenoid energizes.
A relay that energizes contacts on the solenoid energizing can switch another circuit that would cause the lights to illuminate.
Yeah, what if I did add a relay to the coil to illuminate the lights from the GI (I would need to swap bulbs to 6 volt bulbs of course) , would a contact between the GI voltage power and the switch still cause the ULN2803 chip to blow?
Quoted from DumbAss:There is no contact with the switch matrix wires and therefore no risk of blowing the ULN2803A on the CPU board. Make sure to use fully insulated connections whenever possible. Relays can have 0.187" quick connect tabs and you can use a fully insulated connector in this circumstance.
What I meant was that if the same thing happens again, the leaf switch that touches the wire form under the slings...... would that blow the ULN2803A even if it's only 6 volts ?
Quoted from DumbAss:The datasheet knows all. Solenoid voltage is nominally 50VAC which is about +70VDC (RMS).
[quoted image][quoted image]
Thanks, really reassuring......
Quoted from jid:Please let us all know how the install goes! Mine should be here later this week or first of next!
Just installed my ramp, took 10 minutes and fits perfect with the slot machine mod I made.
It was very easy to install.
IMG_9698 (resized).JPGIMG_9699 (resized).JPGCould someone here tell me what this small board is for, what's it called? It's under the upper part of the playfield on the right.
The capacitor on it is frying each time I turn the game on and smokes a lot as well and it blows F116 on the driver board in 2 or 3 seconds each time.
Is it the Cap that's well passed it's life span or could it be something else somewhere that makes it fry?
Thanks.
IMG_9700 (resized).JPGQuoted from bakerhillpins:When a cap vents that's typically because it was installed backwards. The 2nd reason it would do this is that the voltage that is applied to the cap is over it's rating (100v on a 50v cap for example).
Because you're asking what the board does I'm guessing that electronics are unfamiliar to you so I have some questions:
Was this game previously working?
Are you replacing the cap each time? Or are you just replacing the fuse and turning it on again?
Once a cap vents it's effectively shorted so it needs replaced. Yes, caps do have a limited lifespan.
It started frying while I was playing a game about 2 hours ago, half of the playfield, including the DMD, went dead after hearing a buzzing sound and giving an overheated smell, I checked the fuses on the driver board and it appeared to be Fuse F116 that blew, replaced it, turned the game on but everything worked for 3 seconds max, then, boom, another F116 blow, plus smoke coming from the under/top playfield, lifted the PF and replaced the fuse again, turned on the game again and now I could see what was going on under there, I saw the cap light up like a small fire, I did'nt wait for the fuse to blow this time, I just turned the off as soon.....
Quoted from bakerhillpins:Unplug that board completely (It appears you may have already removed it from the game), replace the fuse (if it's bad) and turn the game on. Does the fuse still blow? If the fuse blows you probably have a power problem, if not then that board will need repaired or replaced.
Did all of that and fuse still blows.......
Quoted from bakerhillpins:I suspect that the 100uf filter cap going into the 7805 died. When he replaced the fuse he put the nail in it's coffin and it shorted/vented. I've lost count of the # of those 100uf caps that I've found bad on my WPC era games. It's a standard replacement for me now.
So you suggest that I simply replace that cap?
Quoted from WW2GURU:My initial guess is that Q1 has shorted to ground internally on that small board. Of course testing would have to support that.
What test do you suggest I do?
I'm comfortable with testing things around.....
Quoted from bakerhillpins:You've got a bigger debugging problem on your hands then.
At this point in time that cap is shorted and will need replaced. You'll also need to fix whatever power problem you now have. That's a bigger issue and will require a DMM at a minimum.
Sorry for asking but english is not my first language.
What's a DMM ?
Quoted from WW2GURU:Yes, but he's still blowing the F116 fuse with that entire board out of circuit.
GILV You'll have get familiar with everything that F116 is running and do a visual inspection of the involved connectors, wiring and the loads that it feeds. You'll want to look for any obvious concerns like heat damage, fractured connectors, mechanisms touching nearby terminals etc. You'll need the factory manual a good auto ranging multimeter (DMM) and check out https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC#Manuals_.26_Schematics
for some excellent diagnostic resources.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of your help everyone....
First, Maybe what I said was a little confusing, I just realized that...... the F116 fuse does NOT blow when the clock board is out of circuit, so can I conclude that it's something on the clock board that's wrong?
Quoted from Scoot:It is a multimeter.
well if it's a multimeter, I have one and I'm very comfortable working with a multimeter as well.
Quoted from jid:Love my new spiral ramp!
[quoted image][quoted image]
WOW! I really like your clock, is it a prototype?
Quoted from bakerhillpins:Correct.
So you have 4 options :
You can send it out for repair, buy a replacement, play the game without the clock working, or try to fix it yourself.
Quoted from Scoot:I would try and repair the board yourself. If you have a soldering iron and a little soldering skill, it would be easy to remove the cap and clean up that area. It may just need a replacement.
I'm not a proffession in anything but I'm a "do it all" kind of guy, so, I'm very comfortable with repairing the board, I've done repairs on boards a few times.....as long as I know exactly what components are faulty/need replacement, but if I replace the cap and the board still does'nt work that's where I'll be stuck afterwards though......
IMG_9701 (resized).JPGQuoted from jid:Thanks! Not a proto at all!
The face is from Marco I think. Like 9 bucks. The case is from pinballdecals. I think it was the last blue one he had a long time ago.
I really prefer that clock face, another mod added to my list of future eventual mods.
Quoted from Pinkitten:Pinball Decals.com has the white clock face decal for $12.99. The clear clock housings have been back in stock lately, but yellow and blue housings are only at Pinball Center, in Germany. They will ship to Canada but not USA. I have a blue and a clear housing and while I like both, I really like the clear. Here’s mine I just rebuilt with a new board and gears.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Thanks for the tip.
Quoted from bakerhillpins:I'm happy that you're willing to tackle this yourself. Those under playfield Williams/Bally boards are some of the harder boards to work on though. It's VERY easy to overheat the pad/trace on the component and have it come off the board. You might have better luck using solder wick rather than the solder pullit you have there. I assume you've also picked up some small diameter rosin core solder? Good solder also helps. I use Kester 44 Rosin Core 63/37 1LB (One Pound) Spool Solder, 0.031 diameter (MP1075). But that's a LOT if you're only doing some small repairs.
https://www.arcadepartsandrepair.com/store/tools-supplies/tools/kester-63-37-1lb-spool-solder-mp1075/
Do you have any old boards to practice on? You should also spend some time watching some videos on soldering.
The other thing to note is that there are several boards under the playfield that have that same filter cap and they should also be replaced.
Yeah, I do have smal diameter resin core solder. I'll be very carefull not to overheat because I don't have old boards to practice on. Thanks for all of the advice.
Quoted from ramegoom:Question for the TZ electrical guys.
What would force the machine to go directly into the LITZ whenever a ball enters the piano? No idea why this could happen, but it gets frustrating as every game will rack up billions of points and last way too long.
Anything I should look at before I dig deeper into this machine?
It happened to me as well not too long ago, you can go into LITZ by cheating, you need to press the extra ball button when the ball is in the scoop, the piano feeds the scoop, so this might be why it happens..... well, my extra ball button was stuck closed, fixed it and now it never happens.
Check your extra ball button.
Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:Hey folks. I am doing an over the top resto on a TZ.
Regarding the black paint on the coin door. I am seeing a gloss black finish on the entire face of this door am now cleaning. Did TZ come with a gloss black door? I thought it might have been the typical semi-flat with the glossier speckles.
Just curious so it can go back correct.
Thanks.
Semi-flat with glossier speckles according to me, all of the TZ's I've owned had that on the doors.
I changed the cap once yesterday and booted the game, blew F116 and cap again, after, I unplugged the clock motor, both connectors, turned the game on after replacing the cap again on the motor board but this time I watched the small board closely, it was burning a bright fire light right next to the cap, I think it's a short between the cap and the diode, see pictures.
I did'nt wait for the fuse to blow neither did the cap blow as well, but there was a fire on there.
Quoted from Scoot:Holy smokes! There is definitely a ground short somewhere there. You will have to remove everything in that area and start checking the traces. I would suspect everything on that 5v line (pin 5 at J1). I would replace the diode (D1), the resistor (R1) and especially the 5v regulator as I suspect is your short (Q1). Oh, and your capacitor you just replaced will have to be replaced again.
Thanks for all of the advice but at this point I ordered a new board here,
ebay.com link: itm
Quoted from slochar:Good luck.
I've had mixed results with gulf products and afaik they don't have schematics available.
who's gulf products? are they the seller on Ebay?
Quoted from slochar:Look at the pic of the board in your link.....
Oh boy..... I hope I won't have any trouble, I already have enough with my existing board....
If anyone here wants a good subwoofer for their cabinet, I've got these for sale:
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/154433
Quoted from Flato:Got your pm will defintley keep you in mind if i cant sort things out, wish you were a little closer but could make it work one way or anothet. I got the game about 5 years ago from wvpinball here is original ad https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/50721
Never played a ton but 2 plus years ago would occasionally reset while playing it, really quit playing intill recently little kid is getting me back into it. Anyways the resets got more frequent to the point if you hit the flipper would just reset then finally last few days would boot up then just constantly go into testing and keep reseting itself. Pretty sure i blew the 8 amp fuse early today after reseting connectors dont have anymore on hand going to have to order some more. Open to any advice can the rotten dawg even be repaired? other boards look original.
Mine had the same issue, it's the Z-connector or the J114 connector that is causing the problem, you can just remove the Z-connector and solder the wires together or just repin the J114 connector. if you want to make sure and test before doing anything, reseat the J114 a few times, same with the Z-connector and the problem will dissapear (for a short while), then you'll know that is your problem and then correct it......
Quoted from jid:I just removed a slot machine that was a decent mod. Happy to sell it to you if you want it. I don’t think it is the ‘ultimate’ one though.
It isn’t compatible with the spiral wireform so I had to pull it. [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
If I were you I would install that slot machine where it's really supposed to be, at the slot scoop.
IMG_9698 (resized).JPGQuoted from jid:Can you please take a picture with a slighter wider view? I’d like to see the slot machine entrance. And like that idea to keep it!
Are these OK ? I had to cut the plastic on the right side of the scoop though, some people won't want to do that but I have my saying that I can always buy another eventually.
Quoted from jid:And I learned I was too steep on my playfield slope before I put this in. Ball would come through the loop and go flying off… lol! Fixed to 7 deg!
Mine is at it's steepest, I would'nt go for less, I like a challenge and when it's faster..... mine would also go flying off...... Was yours flying off in the curve? Mine did exactly that..... I bent the outer low wall a little higher so the ball is closer to the wall and higher than it was, now the ball always stays in the ramp, even with a very fast/strong shot in the ramp.
I pointed out the part of the ramp I slightly bent in the pictures.
If you do this, be very carefull though, bent a little at a time, test/check and bend a little more, test/check with ball and so on......
IMG_9732 (resized).JPGIMG_9733 (resized).JPGIMG_9734 (resized).JPG
Quoted from billsfanmd:Still on the hunt for a TZ. I know there are more mods for TZ than any other game. Considering the spiral ramp. It’s pricey. Would love to get feedback if it’s really worth it. We all love ramps and it gives game an extra fun twist but does it justify $$$$
I love my Spiral ramp but to say if it justifies the price is a hard question, I've been on the hunt for a spiral ramp for about 20 years, never found one for sale so when I saw Davi's spiral ramps, I jumped on it, when I received it I said to myself "I paid so much money for this?" then I installed it on the game and I loved the affect...... I found it a little annoying (considering the price I paid) that I had to bend it a little higher (wall) so that the ball does'nt go flying off the ramp on a fast ramp shot once in a while but it was'nt so hard to adjust and I love it....... When my wife saw the ramp she laughed but found it cool, I understand her, it gives a new meaning to the TZ quote "You Have just Taken A Detour, In, The Twilight Zone"
Quoted from PinJim:The game resetting could be a lot of things. I'd recommend starting here:
https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC#Game_resets
Too bad you're not closer. I need a deep project game to work on. TZ is a beast to shop - it took me almost 24 hours.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/price-to-shop-a-tz
If you were closer I'd take it on. Fix all of the bugs and bullet proof it while I was in there. It's a labor of love, but once it's done, my experience has been the games run trouble free for a long time. That seems to hold true for most platforms - WPC, System 7, Whitestar, etc.
"Shopping" them isn't cheap though. Rebuilding all of the mechs, caps and select headers on the boards, etc....
What do you do exactly to bullet proof the game?
I'd like to do mine but don't know what it implicates.
Thanks.
Quoted from SuperMas77:Installed Cointaker LEDs w/ back glass door light mod and ColorDMD (LCD). I think they look fantastic! Video link below. Enjoy some pin porn...
https://photos.app.goo.gl/jPqn1m3WWqPgqg6J8
Nice, where did you get the backglass door mod?
1 month later
Quoted from emsrph:Happy Mother’s Day.
Trying to decide whether to do a pf swap. My original playfield has some serious flipper drag wear on one side.
Pulled my 2011 Mirco ceramic TZ pf out to see how it looked. Inserts look good. Appears to have no issues.
The mini pf though has marks from the bubble wrap it was stored in. Can be seen in the black areas. Old posts suggested buffing with Novus 2. Is this by hand or buffing pad in a drill? Wanted to check before doing anything. Thx
Edit- added ugly flipper drag
[quoted image][quoted image]
[quoted image]
If it were me, I'd polish the mini playfield with auto polishing cream, I've done this many times with CC'ed playfields that had small scratches with a very nice result.
Here's the method I use and have never been dissapointed:
Quoted from Pinkitten:Who here has Pinsound on TZ? Is it a game changer? Considering it for TZ or IJPA.
I don't have Pinsound but I have it's equivilent, Tilt Audio, and I must say that it is a game changer, it rocks the game, it feels like a totally different game, the best mod I've added to TZ by far.
..... 9 connectors at the wires that relate my PF to the rest of the game, what's the use , you might say? well, lots of advantages, to name a few, I'll be clearcoating the cabinet soon, so I can now "easilly" remove the PF from the cabinet, second, if I want to remove the PF to work on it, easy, unplug the 9 connectors and out it goes in less than 5 minutes, third: If I ever move, which could easilly be the case since I'm in an appartement, I can remove the playfield to make the game lighter to transport, that's a very good thing since I'm not geting younger and my arthritus is'nt getting better either.
There were 102 wires, so, 204 wires needed to be soldered, took me about an hour for each connector, so, 9 connectors= 9 hours of work but is was really worth it. I'm Very happy that I don't have to bother with unplugging all of the connectors from the boards anymore to CC my cabinet, I did'nt want to...... but on the other hand, how could I CC my cabinet with such a heavy game and NOT damage the cabinet????
Quoted from Davi:In average, unplug/plug all connectors in the backbox takes 15 minutes.
9 hours of work means 36 playfield removal.
It's your game, but I prefer to keep as original.
Unplugging is'nt the problem for me, it's replugging that is time consuming, if I want everything as it was before it'll take at least an hour or 2, maybe more (I know, I've restored a TZ many years ago) because I would need to check pictures to see if all connectors are at there right place.
Also, I've got many mods that make it very complicated to remove the connectors in the backbox.
Quoted from awesome1:Why all the splices though? Couldn't cut and pin/socket the actual game wires?
I had 2 choices at the shop I bought the connectors from, first: I could buy molex connectors but the pins were very expensive, 39 cents each, or second choice: they also had 12 pin female and male connectors already wired that were the same price as the other molex connectors without the pins, so I bought the less expensive and kept the wires on them to make it easier for me to work on.....
Quoted from awesome1:Pinsound does offer the standard TZ sound package that has the Golden Earing song and all of the original call outs and sound effects. I agree... have to have that song!
To me, all of the available (last time I looked which was a couple years ago) user created TZ sound package themes were terrible.
I'm not familiar with the Tilt Audio offering.
Tilt Audio is NOT plug and play, but I have the golden earing song on the original package and the modified package as well but it's more of an electric guitar version.
The original package does not have the incredible stereo sound of the modified package though, I prefer the modified package, it really rocks.
https://tiltaudio.com/
Quoted from Davi:In average, unplug/plug all connectors in the backbox takes 15 minutes.
9 hours of work means 36 playfield removal.
It's your game, but I prefer to keep as original.
On another note, I think I've never seen an "original" TZ, they all have at least a few mods and most have many mods, so, adding this mod is'nt much worst than any other mod in my opinion.
If your TZ is all orginal, I'd like to see it, could you post a picture please if that's the case?
Thanks Davi.
Much appreciated.
By the way, I had to modify the spiral ramp you sold me a little so that the ball does not fly off on fast shots in the ramp, but I love that ramp, thanks again for the ramp.
Quoted from LTG:Here is an early sample TZ I've had since new. Still has the Bally sticker on the playfield glass.
I do have a slot machine topper on the backbox. And if I run an event in my business with the games on free play, I wired in the third magnet optos so that feature works with the latest free play game ROM. Third magnet and connectors for optos were already in it.
LTG : )
[quoted image]
Nice. I can see that the mini playfield does not have the "Flip Here" writings.
You bought it NIB from Williams?
Quoted from ProjektPat:So I have an interesting issue with my new tz machine. Many times when shooting it up the metal power ramp it flies off the ramp to some random place in the machine. Any idea what’s causing this?
Check that the ball, when taking the turn in the ramp, is as close as possible to the outside end wall.
What I've done is bend it higher and closer to the ball.....but on the other hand, when doing this you don't need as much length in that "outside end wall" , so, I also bent this part of the ramp (see picture), to make it shorter.
I know it's a little complex and risky doing this but if you do it real slow and a little at a time, you'll get the right angle and proximity to the ball so that it won't go flying off the ramp anymore, even with a very fast and powerfull shot to the ramp.
I also posted a picture of how close and "under" the ball should be from the "outside end wall".
I hope I'm well understood, english is'nt my first language so please forgive me.....
IMG_9833 (resized).JPGIMG_9834 (resized).JPGQuoted from ProjektPat:So I have an interesting issue with my new tz machine. Many times when shooting it up the metal power ramp it flies off the ramp to some random place in the machine. Any idea what’s causing this?
I'm sorry, I just realized that you were talking about the powerfield ramp.
Stupid me.....
Anyway, I did'nt delete the other post since it could be a good guide for other members who have problems with flying balls on their spiral ramp.
Quoted from ProjektPat:how do I adjust the angle on a ramp?
I think he means the angle of the "outside end wall" , but if not, I would check this (see picture), that "wall" should not be too far from the ball when it's flat on the ramp, otherwise it will go flying off it at high speed.
IMG_9835 (resized).JPGQuoted from ProjektPat:doesn't seem to be this because it isn't continuously staying open. It triggers and a very specific interval of like 2 or 3 seconds at a time over and over even when the game is not playing.
Probably the optos at the ramp entrance need cleaning, that's what I would do first, after checking "switch test" of course.
Quoted from ProjektPat:Ok I swapped them out and they were definitely magnetized.
I always use "Ninja" pinballs and even if they say that they "can" get magnetized, I've never had any issues with them in TZ, so you can use Ninja balls if you like.
Quoted from ProjektPat:I actually figured it out, I didn't realize that cylinder was a nut. The issue I'm having now is I can't figure out how to remove the flipper buttons. I've never had to on a game like this.
No question is stupid.....look from inside of the cabinet for the flipper buttons and you'll figure it out quite easilly.
Quoted from ProjektPat:No they’re totally fubar. Completely rusted and corroded and shit. They need to be totally replaced.
I’m aware I need to remove them lol. I just don’t now how to remove and reattach.
If it were me, I'd remove them and restore them, there are many options to restore them, you can use "Evaporust" to remove the rust and then polish them to a shiny finish, or if the rust did too much damage, wet sand them with an electric sander, start with 200 grit, then 400 grit, then 600 grit, then 800 grit then 1000 grit, then 1200 grit, then 1500 grit and finish with 2000 grit, finish the job with polishing paste.
When you are finshed, clean it real well with hot water and dish soap, dry quickly, add a coat or 2 of Tremclad oil based spray clear so that it does'nt rust anymore, no one will ever notice that there is clearcoat on those metal parts, even if you tell them, they won't see it....
Restoring is always cheaper and much more satisfying than buying new.
Just my 2 cents.
Quoted from John_I:Wow. I have now completely lost faith in Mirco. First it was all the playfield issues and now the radcals are not what they are advertised to be. I haven't installed any yet, but the main draw was just being able to peal and paste with little or no cabinet prep. Like this:
https://www.facebook.com/mircoplayfields/videos/installation-of-rad-cals/780324335632215/
Yeah, I keep reading how much trouble these Rad Cals give to people..... I already wanted to clear coat my cabinet, since it's already perfect but not glossy, but now I'm more determined than ever to clearcoat rather that add these.....
never mind.... I found......
https://www.pinballbulbs.com/products/86-small-wedge-pinball-led
Quoted from jrcmlc:I believe my information is pretty current that the color file isn't finished for it.... Do you have one that is?
That is correct, only 70% complete, but it does'nt show much, the color files that are not complete are for the most part files from LITZ, a few others but not very noticable when playing.
Quoted from GILV:never mind.... I found......
https://www.pinballbulbs.com/products/86-small-wedge-pinball-led
Any other options anyone? I can't find anyone else that sells #86 LED 6V bulbs, I won't pay 49$ USD to ship a 16$ order that's for sure.
Quoted from jrcmlc:Comet or absolute pinball up in CA?
Thanks, I'll check absolute Pinball, Comet has them but they're out of stock these days.
My TZ's spiral optos don't work, not even on switch test.
They started by acting out really crazy, alway activating during game play and after a few games, nothing......
Could it be the optos board? the auto plunger opto beside the plunger works great.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Quoted from PinJim:Do the other switch on column 8 work? The lock switches will be easiest to test....[quoted image]
I don't know what happened between 45 minutes ago and now but I just turned the game on and everything works on switch test, maybe something gets hot on the opto board after a few games and the 2 spiral magnets don't work after......
I'll do some more playing and I'll see.
Thanks for chiming in, I appreciate it.
Quoted from PinJim:For what it's worth, I had a very similar problem recently with my clock optos (Ingo board). They'd act up and eventually quit altogether. In my case, there was very old battery damage on my CPU that finally ate through a trace. I jumpered it out for now. Longer term I need to replace the board.....
Of course, what you describe could be a handful of other issues and not battery damage.
Thanks for the heads up, I checked and no battery acid damage what so ever on the CPU.
I've been having a few small issues that seem to come and go since I installed some connectors to remove my PF more easilly.....
If these small issues keep up, I'll remove those connectors and put it like it was originally after clearcoating my cabinet in a few weeks.
IMG_9829 (resized).JPGQuoted from PinJim:Or if you want to keep them, do the old wiggle test. Put it in switch test and wiggle the wires around and see if anything is flaky. Kinda like the "pound on the playfield" test that I've used so many times over the years....
I've been so lucky with my TZ, it's been a rock aside from the CPU damage.
"pound on the playfield", I'll remember that one it's a trick I use to do when I started about 20 years ago but forgot along the way, you are really helping me a lot, seriously.....
About the connectors, I don't think they have a bad contact, what I think is that some of the wires are bigger than others and I think the connectors are not giving the "flow" of current they need causing bugs in game play, so, if the ups and downs go on, I'll have to remove them, they are brand new connectors so they are surely not giving issues because of bad contact.
Quoted from PinJim:At least I’ve learned over the years to not rush and do things like put rags under where your working to catch the parts that fall down as your are trying to origami your hand to get them back in place, lol.
My boys are 7 and 9 - and are really starting to dig TZ. It makes me so happy! [quoted image]
Another interresting trick that I had never thought of, thanks , when I use to lose a screw, I would search but mostly go get it with a telescopic mini magnet.
Yeah, those are the years that they dig pinball..... I wish you the best for the later years, starting at about 11 or 12 they get bored, well that's what happened with my first 4 kids many many years ago.
Quoted from GILV:About the connectors, I don't think they have a bad contact, what I think is that some of the wires are bigger than others and I think the connectors are not giving the "flow" of current they need causing bugs in game play, so, if the ups and downs go on, I'll have to remove them, they are brand new connectors so they are surely not giving issues because of bad contact.
Forget about what I assumed here, I found the issue...... it was 2 yellow wires that I had reversed by mistake at the connectors, the "Powerball" insert and the "Extra Ball" insert, giving me the issues I was talking about, after soldering them back at the right place, game plays perfect.
I have a question about flipper opto boards on my TZ.
What are these "diodes" called on the flipper opto boards (see picture) ?
Are they supposed to get hot after a few games?
If not, what does it mean that they get so hot, what are the repercussions of them getting hot?
Thanks.
Quoted from LTG:Resistors
No. But they look like after market boards, so something ain't right.
Won't work. Big fire. Nuclear explosion. Nothing major. I'd get rid of them so they don't cause other problems.
LTG : )
Thanks, those resistors getting hot after a few games did'nt bother me much in the past 2 years, but now they cause the magnet optos to suddenly stop working, but before they stop working, they go crazy at every flipper button press, then, and only then, they go out, I turn the game off for 15 minutes, time to cool down those resistors and everything works great.
I just bought these for 71$ CAD shipping included for a pair.
https://www.pinballspareparts.com.au/electronics/boards/bally/a-15894.html
Quoted from DumbAss:Are you sure it is THIS board that is causing the problem? When you turn off the machine, everything cools down. If you want to run a better scientific experiment then just disconnect the connectors at the flipper cabinet opto boards for 15 minutes, plug them back in and see what happens. There are 270 Ohm 2W resistors on the Custom 10-Opto board that get hotter than these 470 Ohm 0.5W resistors. The 10-opto board is responsible for managing the other machine opto pairs.
Note that the board you purchased is pretty much the same as the OEM with respect to the level of heat dissipation. It has 470 Ohm 0.5W resistors installed flush to the board. In the long run, the board will have the same level of heat discoloration.
Thanks for the advice, I'll try that.
Could it be a cracked solder joint that causes the magnet opto problem when they get heated after 15 minutes?
Quoted from DumbAss:Not likely. The cracked joint should only affect the flipper cabinet opto board. Note that the board you have looks like a phenolic single sided board so you can't see the solder joints as they are on the "back" side of the board.
If you want help with your magnet opto problem then you should probably describe it in detail so other people can offer you advice on what to do. This single most important thing is to assess the machine state when the problem has manifest since it only seems to manifest after a period of time.
I'll start by disconnecting that flipper opto board when the problem starts and I'll see from there........
I'll get back with the results.
Thanks.
OK, so I turned the game on for 15 minutes without even playing a single game, I start a game and the 2 magnet opto switches don't register, even on test, I disconnect the flipper opto boards and they still don't register, it's like if they did'nt exist, I turn the game off for 15 minutes, everything works as it should. I checked all of the resistors on the CPU and nothing gets hot on there.
Anybody have any idea as to what's going on.....?
Thanks.
Quoted from ramegoom:The 90's opto design is inferior by today's standards as they used LEDs that would increase current draw with age. This results in higher temperatures at the current limiting resistor, a snowball effect.
Replacing the opto switches with current replacement parts will help, and increasing the resistor values will cut down on heat. The 470 ohm resistor can be replaced with a 560 ohm resistor and still deliver enough current to the LED to keep its mating transistor fully saturated while lowering the current draw. Less heat, longer life.
Does this mean that the new fipper opto boards I bought WILL have 560 ohm resistors on them, thus, having longer life span?
OK, found my problem, the Custom Opto SW10 P.C.B. board under the playfield had loose wires on the J5 connector, I found this by wiggling those wires while the game was on Switch Edge test, I removed the connector pressed those wires back in tight in the connector and now optos work well even after 15, 30 minutes of play. My guess is that those giant blue resistors on the P.C.B. board created a lot of heat and the heat would remove contact between the wires and the connector pins.
Thank you so much PinJim for reminding me of pounding on the playfield, that helped me with this repair, it was'nt "pounding" but wiggling is of the same nature.
IMG_9880 (resized).JPGQuoted from ramegoom:I doubt it. All depends on the level of engineering that goes into the replacement board.
Thanks.
By the way, the game started acting up again about the magnet optos just like it did before, I removed the SW10 P.C.B. board and reflowed the solder joints at each end of those giant green transistors and played a few hours with TZ and no more problems.
Quoted from LTG:No idea if you could use the IJ in TZ. ( check board numbers in the manual to see if they are the same board or not ). Even if you could it won't sound better.
LTG : )
It won't sound better..... so what makes for a good sound is the ROMS ?
Quoted from LTG:Check the manuals :
TZ - A-12738-50020 WPC Audio Board
IJ - A-16917-50017 Sound Board Assembly
More than the ROMs.
LTG : )
Thanks.
I think I'll give up the idea before I do something I might regret afterwards......
OK, so what else can I add to my TZ....... 
Quoted from LTG:I've got a crazy idea. Just play the game. Enjoy it for what it is.
LTG : )
LOL Yes, I do and I enjoy it a lot too, but I have more fun working on it than playing it, either restoring, modding or repairing, they're all fun to me.
Thanks for the suggestions guys but I already have a sound enhancer, Tilt Audio, and it has a new updated full stereo version WITH Golen Earing theme and I love the sound and base it gives me.
I wanted to try a DCS sound board just to here the difference, I loved the sound of Cirqus Voltaire I once owned so I thought that maybe I could get a similar sound with TZ with original hardware.
Quoted from atg1469:Can anyone confirm, is the opto sensor beneath the slot machine subway is called the “ramp proximity opto sensor assembly” in the manual?! I need the exact part number to order a replacement and this is the only assembly that looks correct but I’m not 100%. Thanks in advance!
That's correct, part number is A-16535
Quoted from Tranquilize:But.... Then there would be 12842 fewer posts in this thread.
LOL, I like your sense of humor, it's the kind of thing I would answer as well......
With that said, I think you're right, I should "shut-up" a little and I think I'll work on that......
Quoted from Davi:Feel free to contact me in case you need pinball parts from Europe.
That's very nice of you, he'll surely appreciate it a lot.
I just realized that I could do it as well, but shipping is very expensive from Europe and I'll have to ship to you additionly.
This guy has the part you need (2 NOS) but he wants to sell the whole lot, so, unless you want to stack up, it's not worth it.
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/158553
Quoted from GILV:OK, found my problem, the Custom Opto SW10 P.C.B. board under the playfield had loose wires on the J5 connector, I found this by wiggling those wires while the game was on Switch Edge test, I removed the connector pressed those wires back in tight in the connector and now optos work well even after 15, 30 minutes of play. My guess is that those giant blue resistors on the P.C.B. board created a lot of heat and the heat would remove contact between the wires and the connector pins.
Thank you so much PinJim for reminding me of pounding on the playfield, that helped me with this repair, it was'nt "pounding" but wiggling is of the same nature.
[quoted image]
My problem was'nt loose wires, neither cracked solder joints on the transistors (or anything else) because I reflowed every solder joints on that board and I still get the same problem after playing many games.
This problem is starting to give me a real head aches, it must be something that gets hot, every time I let everything cool down and turn the game back on, all magnet optos work great then after a few games, the robots go crazy as well as the spiral optos, then the optos stop working while I'm playng.
What could possibly be the problem ?
I think it might be the Custom Opto SW10P.C.B. board because there are 10 giant blue transistors on that board that get real hot, plus that's the board which controls the opto switches, the 2 wires that control the magnet opto switches from the main connector are white brown and white orange.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated because now I'm running out of ideas/solutions.
Thanks.
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:Did you replace the capacitor on your opto board?
No, it could be one of the capacitors or transistors I agree, you think a bad capacitor or bad transistor could cause this kind of problem?
Thanks for advice Mad_Dog_Coin_Op, I'll keep that in mind but I think I might have found the problem, I found a link between the 3 switches that were causing me trouble, there was the 2 magnet optos and the upper lock switch (Robots) that went crazy just before they went out each time and on switch edge test, switch 85 would keep activating for no reason, I was in another room and "the game was calling me", as my wife said, after turning the game on for at least 15 to 30 minutes.
Those 3 switches all have the "green gray" wire, so I checked real carefully and found that it was loose in the connector, removed it and pressed it back in at another place on the wire.
Now, I won't say that the problem is solved until I test it for a few weeks, I'll confirm only by then.
I'll be back...... and if this does'nt work, I'll replace those caps and transistors.
Quoted from monkfe:the hot/warm "transistors" you described sound more like the resistors on the opto board...they do get hot so probably no issues there...
Transistors , resistors, for me they are all the same..... 
I think you're right BUT, maybe the heat from those resistors caused the issue at the connector because the game would work very well in the beginning and the 3 switche/optos would either not work, or go crazy after many games.
I hope the issue is solved, we'll see.......
Quoted from Coyote:Maybe for you - but if you're asking for help and use the wrong terminology, people trying to help can give you advice that makes things worse.
I'm sorry, I made a mistake/typo there that I realized only when Monkfe quoted me.
I was only making fun of myself, I know I'm not that good in repairing and I appreciate the help I can get here, I was'nt intentionly misleading anyone and I'll try not to make the same type of mistake again.
Quoted from amxfc3s:This. Not saying it's your issue but it should be done. They like to leak and eat traces on the PCB.
Thanks for the advice, I'll do them then, where do I buy those and do I need to replace all of the smaller resistors as well on the board.
I almost made the same transister mistake in this post. 
1 week later
Hey everyone.
Question: If I want to install radcals, can I do so on a bear wood cabinet or do I need to paint the cabinet black before?
The cabinet is still full of glue residu from removing my old cabinet decals.
Let me know.
Thanks.
Quoted from Frogroar:You need to remove that glue first. Some sand it off, but I find it difficult that way because the glue gets in the sanding pads pretty quickly. Use a product that dissolves the glue and scrap it off. Repeat if necessary.
After that, sand your cabinet really smooth, filling up holes and scratches first. Start with 120 grit, end with 400 grit. Every imperfection on the cabinet will be visible through the decal.
To answer your question, I think it’s best to prime it black and lightly sand it again with 400 grit. You’re ready to apply the decals when it’s smooth and clean. Reason for the primer is to make sure there are no colour differences under the decal. Uniformity is what you want.
Good luck!
Thanks for all of the good advice, does your TZ have Radcals? If so, do you like the color? I'm asking beause I read that some Radcals for some titles don't match the original color.
I've read not too good stuff about Radcals so I decided to go with this option instaed: https://cointaker.com/products/twilight-zone-cabinet-decals
Anyone ever tried these? Cointaker says “air free ftx system”, what's that?
no need for water? why give your self more trouble than needed?
What's so eaxtraordinary about these decals?
Are they similar to the others?
Thanks.
Quoted from Miguel351:Most likely, it's similar to the 3M 1080 vinyl that's basically crosshatched on the back and has something akin to micro-valves in it that help the air escape without having to chase them out all the way to edge. Every different company has a different name for the same kind of system. You don't really need water, or soapy water with these kinds of decals, but it can still help getting things lined up just right.
Thanks for the pointing that out.
1 week later
Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:New problem Flippers related.
During play or in diag mode, the front left flipper fires and is stuck in the upper position. The rear left flipper remains in the down position. However, if I press the left flipper button, the rear left flipper will slowly move to the up position with very little power.
I did replace the flipper solenoids, but they appear to be wired correctly. The Fliptronics board was sent off with the other boards just to be checked, but it had no issues. I have done a continuity check on the big 36C transistors, as well as the 102s, and the teen tiny ones. No transistors appear to be shorted out.
I am going to start looking for shorted wires, but what else should I be checking?
Thanks.
Most probable cause to your problem is when you replaced the flipper selenoid the metal plate thst holds the selenoid in place (see picture) is not well alined. You can't see it but all you need to do is loosen the screws, make sure the plunger moves freely and retighten those screws. That should solve at least one of your issues, if not both.
IMG_0025 (resized).JPGQuoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:Will do. Thanks.
I had a friend who had the same problem you have and he fixed it by doing what I mentioned earlier, it's alway best to start checking with the easy solutions first, and then go with what's harder/more complex solutions afterwards, the other way round is liking taking "a detour' when, sometimes it's not necessary.
Quoted from atg1469:Yeah, that’s kind of what I’m thinking. I ordered a new coil and a new plate, figured it can’t hurt to replace both and see if that helps.
Sure can't hurt...... but if you want to know which of the 2 will solve the problem, start by replacing the coil, try it, and if problem stays, go with the plate.
One thing I've learned over the years when repairing pins (and mopeds) is, "never try more than one thing at a time", otherwise you don't know which of the 2 solutions you've tried solved the problem.
Quoted from jrcmlc:I have the 3rd magnet kit drill template and magnet spacer available now for NO GOUGE pricing if anyone needs them, and the entire 3rd magnet kit will be available within 3 weeks (guesstimate) from us as well.
What are the parts that will be included in the kit? The same as everything in the Pinbits kits?
Quoted from jrcmlc:Super similar but with a much more elegant board solution that requires less solder work. This is all sourced/created from folks here that support the community as well, myself, DumbAss and rockwell
WOW!
I'm impressed, I once installed a 3rd magnet on a TZ about 15 years ago with the Pinbit kit, when this will be available, I want a kit, I already bought what I needed for a 3rd magnet on my TZ, a magnet, a magnet bracket, a core and the core nut, now all I need is this kit and I'm good to go.......
Quoted from jrcmlc:This kit includes those items. It's everything you need, as far as I know. The kits from back in the day had you buying things elsewhere nowadays with shipping costs from everyone I just bought it all and it'll be included for one price.
Oh! good move.
Would you be willing to sell me what I need except those 4 items since I already have those?
Quoted from jrcmlc:We can probably work something out, just pm me.
Thanks,
I'll PM you as soon as these kits are available.
1 week later
Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:Anyone know of a 5v source under the playfield that I can wire a mod into. I am finding tons of 12V, but no 5v.
Thanks
You can use one of those 12V sources and use a step down and adjust voltage as you require, I did this for a mod I made 2 years ago from the flashers at the pop bumpers.
ebay.com link: itm
Here's the mod I made with the step down, spinning car that moves with pop bumpers.....
Quoted from jrcmlc:I do have plenty of the drill templates available if anyone wants one of those to create their own kits, and I have spacers for the magnet bracket but fun fact, the height of that spacer requirement changes based on who made the magnet bracket. PM me if you need either of these items to make your own setup.
I'm happy to know you sold the 3 kits, as fo me, I have other plans.....
I'll post here when ready.
Quoted from jrcmlc:Also GILV remember your magnet bracket may be taller than the spacer they provided and may need some washers or additional spacers to make up the difference.
Thanks for reminding me that.... I'll let you know.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Ypaddave:Where did you get the spiral from?
"Davi" here on Pinside makes these once in a while by batches.
Just finished a never ending cabinet restoration, never ending because I had multiple problems along the way, anyway, it took me 2 months of work instead of only a few days, like it was supposed to be, here are the end results. sorry for the bad quality pictures, I know I need another better camera.
I cut of the decals where the metal cabinet protectors go because even if people say that these protectors don't wrinkle the decals, they were starting to wrinkle anyway, so I decided to stay on the safe side.
IMG_0037 (resized).JPGIMG_0038 (resized).JPGIMG_0039 (resized).JPGIMG_0040 (resized).JPGIMG_0041 (resized).JPGIMG_0042 (resized).JPGIMG_0043 (resized).JPGIMG_0044 (resized).JPGIMG_0045 (resized).JPG
IMG_0046 (resized).JPGIMG_0047 (resized).JPGIMG_0048 (resized).JPGIMG_0050 (resized).JPGIMG_0051 (resized).JPGIMG_0053 (resized).JPGIMG_0054 (resized).JPGIMG_0056 (resized).JPGIMG_0057 (resized).JPGIMG_0058 (resized).JPGIMG_0059 (resized).JPGIMG_0060 (resized).JPGIMG_0061 (resized).JPGIMG_0062 (resized).JPGIMG_0063 (resized).JPGIMG_0064 (resized).JPGIMG_0065 (resized).JPGIMG_0066 (resized).JPGIMG_0067 (resized).JPGIMG_0068 (resized).JPGIMG_0069 (resized).JPGIMG_0070 (resized).JPGIMG_0071 (resized).JPGIMG_0072 (resized).JPGIMG_0073 (resized).JPGIMG_0074 (resized).JPGIMG_0075 (resized).JPGIMG_0076 (resized).JPGIMG_0077 (resized).JPGIMG_0078 (resized).JPGIMG_0079 (resized).JPGIMG_0080 (resized).JPGQuoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:Looking for the artwork for the upper PF removal decal that goes on the floor of the cabinet.
Anyone know where there might be one online?
I sure would like to help but I don't understand what you're tslking about, could you post a picture of what you're looking for?
Quoted from Gorgar666:Looks Great Brother!
Thanks.
Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:Thanks. I will reach out.
I corrected the proportions on the one I posted above, but the res is low so I would have to retrace it with high res text. I would love for someone to provide a high res pic if possible. I would be happy to share it here on the board.[quoted image]
I bought mine from this seller on Etsy. Check different picture of the listing, he also has the Midway WPC stickers, he actually custom makes them for you before mailing. Great guy to deal with, I was very satisfied.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/870843203/bally-williams-midway-stern-sega-pinball
1 week later
Quoted from jrcmlc:Was Chris able to help you on this?
Also really curious about the choice to use "radcals" instead of Phoenix Arcade or literally any other choice, was the cabinet rough or brand new? I'm so bad with wood work and so bad with cabinets that I am always watching to see what people do and why...I can instinctively fix electronic anything...but I can't build a bird house....LOL
If I were to start all over again my cabinet restoration I would've used Radcals, I ran into a whole lot of problems just because (I found out at the end of my 2 month restoration hell) Vinyle reacts badly to auto clearcoat, if you spray thick coats the decals will wrinkle or bubble, if you try spraying a first thin coat, which is what you should do to avoid wrinckling, let dry a few days and try adding more thick coats, the same will happen again, you need to spray 2 or 3 thin coats, let dry a few days, before starting to spray thick coats to get a glass like finish, just a whole lot of trouble, plus I learned the hard way, I had to buy a complete new decal set, plus another (3rd) front coin door decal before finding another tecnic to eliminate the bubbles, otherwise I would now still be working on my TZ.......
Plus I had to use twice the clearcoat because of the wasted trashed first decals, cost me a bundle of money and lots of my time as well......
BUY RADCALS, good advice from someone who paid big bucks to learn.
IMG_0073 (resized).JPGIMG_0074 (resized).JPG
Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:The decals on that TZ are not Radcals. Based on what I know about those, I am not sure if I like them but to be fair, I have never seen them in person. The cabinet decals I use for restorations come from Phoenix Arcade or classic-arcades.com
I prefer the screenprinted ones from Phoenix first, then revert to CA for printed ones if I have to. In this case, PA did not have the TZ decals in screenprint.
Phoenix Arcade did not have TZ decals in stock because I bought their last set about 2 months ago.
Quoted from atg1469:I considered doing this but what if for some reason you needed to remove a bolt later down the road?!
That is a very good point and a wise way of seeing things, to eliminate later/greater problems.
2 weeks later
Someone here had said that he knew a TZ owner who had put only pinballs in his gumball machine topper and broke the glass, well, I think I found a smart way to do it (I hope so) I mixed real gumballs with pinballs, should be OK....... we'll see.
IMG_0211 (resized).JPGQuoted from Pinkitten:The old adage is, “put pinballs in your topper and gumballs in your game, and if things go cattywompus you’ll have only you to blame.” Or, so they say.
.....or if I listen to your advice, I might also have YOU to blame.
Maybe someone can help me out as well, I had an opto problem a few months ago that was intermittent, but now it's permanent, the lower right ramp opto and the left magnet opto are not registering anymore, I'm aware that it's the green/gray wire that's causing this from my Custom Opto P.C.B. Assemble board but I have no idea which component is faulty on that board, can someone point me out what component just died on the board so I can replace it if it's possible to do so?
Thanks.
Quoted from slochar:Are you sure it's the board and not the opto itself?
At this point I'm not sure of anything..... but if it was the opto, it would mean that both optos failed at the same time, which is very improbable, on the other hand both of those optos have the green/gray wires related to them, and now I just discovered that the upper lock works great and that switch also has the green/gray wire related to it, so now I'm checking my white/orange and white/brown wires on the connector......
Will be back with more info after lunch.
Quoted from jrcmlc:Which board are you needing?
The Custom Opto P.C.B. Assemble board.
I know I can buy them just about anywhere but I would rather repair my board if it's possibl to do so.
Quoted from LTG:https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC#Opto_Switches
This will help you with testing.
LTG : )
Thanks.
I can't test my game with those instructions because they are for testing a 7 Opto board, mine is a SW10 opto board.
But I checked if the 12VDC was good and TP1 is at 15VDC so that sur is'nt the problem.
I'm pretty sure it's my opto board that acting out but I have ne way to test it.
Quoted from jrcmlc:That's the same custom opto board we use for the 3rd magnet kit right?
I beleive so...... Good point. I see where you're going at.....
Quoted from GILV:I beleive so...... Good point. I see where you're going at.....
I beleive so...... Good point. I see where you're getting at....
Quoted from jrcmlc:The only things I'm getting at are that DumbAss can maybe help you with it since he makes our boards AND that I have a board here I can ship you if you need one, as I have one 3rd magnet kit sitting here unsold, so I can take the board out of it and get Victor to make me another when he gets around to it.
Please don't take it bad, I forgot to put a smile at the end of my last post.
that's what I thought you would do but I did'nt want to ask for it and make you separate a third magnet kit only for me.
I appreciate it.
Quoted from DumbAss:It doesn't work like this. The Custom Opto SW10 board (A-16807) has no diagnostic capabilities. You need to do the diagnostics yourself using either a DMM or logic probe.
The board consists of two discrete sections.Opto pair (transmitter/receiver) drive.
Receiver state detection (analog to digital conversion - by the comparator).The transmitter can be "visually" inspected using a camera that does not have an IR filter. You can also infer potential functionality by measuring the voltage drop across the resistor.
The receiver must be tested electrically. The receiver itself may work but the detection circuit (comparator) may be at fault. You need to separate the two.
There is no "this component died that is causing your problem and you need to replace this component". Well, actually, you could state that the components on your board died and you need to replace the board. I guess that would work.
All 3 optos that have the green/gray wire don't work, the gumball enter opto, lower right ramp opto and the left magnet opto, when they were glittering (last few months) all of those 3 optos, worked at the same time, or, did not work at the same time, I don't think it's an opto problem but if just replacing the board is a solution, I'll do it.
Turned on my TZ before bed yesterday and all 3 optos worked for about 30 seconds, then, on switche edge test, they went crazy for 3 seconds and nothing afterwards, so, conclusion? I'm buying a new board, I would've liked to know which part of the board controls the green/gray wire to repair it, but that seems impossible.
Thanks for the help everyone, I appreciate it.
Good point guys, I'll start by checking those optos, how do I check the resistors?
Too late the board is already bought but I would surely would like to know/repair my board just by curiousity.
I'll check for battery damage but I think I checked that a few months.
I checked for battery damage and nothing, checked the opto transmitters with my camera and I can see the blue lights, but I found out that my LED1 has a broken leg. Could that cause opto flickering?
The game was on switch edge test mod and kept going crazy even when I did'nt touch a thing, when it went crazy, I'd check if optos registered and they did, then it went crazy again and now optos did'nt work and so on and so forth.
Quoted from PinJim:No obvious battery damage. What's the item circled in red??[quoted image]
The item circled in red is a rubber tag over a tiny wire I had to add there when I replaced that blown chip, the trace had been broken so I had hack it like that to make it work.
IMG_0232 (resized).JPGQuoted from trolldownstairs:Off topic a bit, but get those alkaline batteries out of there! That's a battery leak just waiting to happen. Either switch to Lithium batteries (they don't leak), or get a remote battery holder (Or both just to be safe).
I was having opto issues a while back, and it turned out to be all my pins and connectors on the opto board. I was able to test it by putting it in the switch test, and wiggled the connectors around. Switches would then register on and off constantly. I replaced all the pins, and re did the connectors and it's been solid since.
Also a good way to test opto recievers that are suspect is pull them out of the bracket, and use a tv remote control pointed at them. Most tv remotes use IR to send the signal, and should cause the switch test to flicker that switch on and off.
Mine did exactly the same when wiggling the wires, I soldered the wires to the connector pins and reflowed the solder joints from each pin on the board, everything stopped registering on and off when wiggling the wires on test but still would do it while I was'nt touching anything or just gone in another room, I just watch the game on test and it acts crazy, optos work, acts crazy again (on and off switches) and optos work...... so on and so fourth..... many time in a laps time of 5 minutes it will do this........
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:That cap needs replaced for sure. That failed component could easily be your problem.
See pictures, there is no contact, I tested with my multimeter, from the positive side of the cap to that trace you see in the picture, that trace goes directly to the 12 volt pin on the opto 1, 3 4, 5 and 7 connector.
Found! Great, thank you so much everyone.
IMG_0233 (resized).JPGIMG_0236 (resized).JPGIMG_0240 (resized).JPGQuoted from DumbAss:^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^
A lot of people come to this forum looking for "free" (immediate) support. They buy the cheapest board available (cough often RD cough) and don't bother to ask the manufacturer (or merchant). A lot of these manufacturers only make the board to make $. That's all they care about. A lot of people buying these boards only care about the $ as well. The manufacturers want the most they can get and the purchaser wants to pay the least. You get what you pay for.
I was only asked to chime in and help. Perhaps I won't bother doing that next time - even if asked.
For those that aren't aware, most of the replacement boards currently available are pretty much circuit identical. When something goes wrong then YOU (the machine owner) has to do the diagnosis with a tool such as a DMM. If you're scared of the DMM then perhaps you should consider a board that has at least some diagnostics included. Great Lakes Modular had similar visual state feedback. Spending time trying to make a compatible product that not only works but improves the board with simple diagnostics is worth it. IMHO. Your (forum member) opinion may differ. That's ok. It's ok to disagree. If $ are all you care about (I don't get this because you spent thousands of $ on your machine but you want to save $5 on a board?!?!?!) then purchase the cheaper board. This is also why I stopped bothering to help since there are solutions available that are better than the "status quo".
[quoted image]
NOooo! Please don't stop chiming in, I know I made a mistake here but I only realized when you posted this post, I'm no expert in any way and if I would've known that you make better quality boards than what I bought I would've bought your board even if it's a little more and even if it's a lot more than another board, I always buy good quality for anything else but I did'nt think further before this purchase.
I'm an idiot in repairing these machines and once in a while, when these machines break down I always need help, I'll remember my lesson.....
I replaced that cap, rebuilt the trace (not a nice job, I know ) and everything works now.
Bought a board for nothing, will sell it when it arrives, I even installed a LED on it.
I could not have done it without all the help I received here, please don't stop helping, as I will try my best to help others as well for what I can do....... THANK YOU VERY MUCH, I APPRECIATE IT.
IMG_0241 (resized).JPGIMG_0242 (resized).JPGIMG_0245 (resized).JPGQuoted from iEatHands:I’ve been having a similar intermittent Opto issue on my TZ…
All the Optos on column 8 go dark and then intermittently come back all together causing some funny behaviour such as the game thinking there’s a ball lock or spiral shot (normal switches still work on that column such as the the Lower Lock (88))
I’ve had a look at the opto board and there is some corrosion which has caused the led to break away from the board, to me the cap looks fine and doesn’t look like there has been any work done to the board. There seems to be some manufacturing faults where some of the resistors solder pads have connected together (photos attached)
My understanding is that if the physical switch still works the. Column 8 optos go dark then it’s not an issue with the cpu board and likely connectors j3-j4 on the opto board?
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
That seems to be the same problem as I had with the same optos not working. I see corrosion from under that cap, my cap was exactly the same as yours, looked good, but was leaking from under it, corroded 2 traces, the positive trace that went to the LED and the positive trace that went from the cap to C1.
Quoted from PinJim:I wonder why that specific cap leaks? I’m not sure if I’ve ever seen another cap leak. This thread motivated me though, I ordered a new cap for my board.
I went and bought one at a local store for 1.50$ CAD.
Quoted from iEatHands:ding ding ding!
Yea no continuity from the positive of the cap to C1, not sure why it was a intermittent issue though?
I don't know why either..... but I would think that heat from the resistors either made or unmade contact while the game was on....
Quoted from iEatHands:I'm going to pick up a replacement cap, what kind of LED should I be looking for to replace the one which broke off?
I bought these 3mm red 12V LED's and I use them for mods I make for my games because they work just as well with 6V power.
I bought a pack of each color in 3mm and a pack of each color in 5mm a few months ago.
Worked great and 2.99$ USD for 10 shipped is a great deal as well.
ebay.com link: itm
Quoted from iEatHands:I replaced the cap and led and jumped the broken trace, only my local electronics store only had low esr caps at the correct rating.
Is this because of the low esr cap?
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I don't think so, there might be another bad continuity problem.
Check continuity under and beside the jumper you added and further....... I circled what I'm talking about in the picture.
pasted_image (resized).png
Quoted from Piso:I just installed a Pinsound Plus board in my TZ. I noticed I don't have a startup sound when I turn on the pin. Usually it should play the pinsound chime but it doesn't, I'm already in contact with the support team. I loaded the DCS sound package. Takes a bit to get used to new music but I also noticed that the "spiral helper" sound in way way way louder than the rest of the soundtrack. It really scares me all the time! Did you encountered the same problems?
Check "Scroat's" post, which is only 2 posts above yours, I think that post will answer 1 of your questions.
Quoted from PinJim:Did a little preemptive maintenance this morning. Replaced the (2) 100uf caps that seeming leak. One on the opto driver board, and the other one on the clock motor driver board.
I *think* those (2) caps are the most likely to leak? I have seen numerous posts over the years of damaged opto driver boards. It seems odd; leaky caps haven’t been an issue in my decades of pinball repair.
Loving my Hakko 808 this morning. Made for a simple, damaged free job.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Good thinking, in my case, both of those 2 boards gave me problems with the cap, one leaked a few weeks ago and other cap on the motor driver board exploded, the one that exploded damaged the board to a point where it does'nt work at all anymore, had to buy a replacement.
Quoted from PinJim:Well, my Ingo clock board LEDs are back up and running.
I took a chance ordered (20) LEDs from the website below - (10) warm white, and (10) cool white. I put the warm white LEDs in and it's working. Yeah! So these are viable replacements, or seem to be.
https://lighthouseleds.com/
I'm going to re-assemble my clock and will let it get some run time to make sure nothing burns up.
Man I'm glad I found something that works. And now I have ample spares on hand, all for a whopping $10.80 (which includes shipping).
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Edit: the cool whites work too
[quoted image]
I'm happy for you.....
Could you post a direct link to the exact product you bought from that site please?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Let us know how they last.
My board LED's work great but In want to buy extras, just in case......
Quoted from PinJim:Here’s the Ingo board with the cool white LEDs. A bit too blue for my taste. So now the search is on for something not so yellow, and not so blue. I don’t see any good options on the site that I provided. Maybe somewhere else….
[quoted image][quoted image]
Did you try mixing them up?
2 cool white (1 on the upper left and 1 on the lower right),
2 of the warm white (1 on the lower left and 1 on the upper right).
Maybe it would look better.
.....
Quoted from Coyote:Do they work in test mode?
If not, check your 8-High Power Drive board, mounted under the playfield.
.....and if they work on test mod, I would check the mini playfield entrance switch.
Quoted from TZBen:Update: magnets test shows they are working.
Several switches are not functioning
See pic
Not sure how to fix a switch.[quoted image]
You must have a broken wire on one of the switches or a loose wire on one of the connectors on the CPU or a bad connection from the mini playfield connectors.
I'm not the best repair guy, but one thing I'm good at is detecting this sort of problem, in other words, a problem I can see with my eyes....
Quoted from TZBen:Update and resolution: I found a loose wire under the mini playfield. Problem has been resolved thanks for the info
Happy to know that the problem has been solved, the problem with a loose wire or a broken wire is to find it.....
1 month later
Quoted from jid:That is very cool! If I didn’t have the spiral ramp form I’d be all over this!
Sentiments exact.......
Quoted from BigBlockFever:Hey guys,
My TZ is having an intermittent malfunction about every 2-3 games. Everything is going along fine then I’ll get an extra ball lit up ,(sometimes awarded without going into the lock area) also an occasional spiral award for no reason as well.
When these glitches happen I hear and feel a “ clicking” noise from under the playfield. The game I’m in continues on like nothing ever happened. Any thoughts or ideas on what to check would be greatly appreciated!
I had the exact same problem, intermittent as well, and it was the cap on the opto board that was leaking and destroyed the traces, when it was cold, no problem, when hot, after a few games, 2 optos would completely stop working.
Check that cap real closely and you'll surely see.
Good luck with the repair.
1 week later
I'll be installing a 3rd magnet with a NOS Pinbits 3rd magnet kit, including drilling the playfield on my TZ soon and I was thinking of making a video to help others install this mod on TZ.
I've done it before about 14 years ago on another TZ but I'm not an easy talker and english is not my first language, I'm not good at explaining things...... Any suggestions on how I could make this video with out having to talk about every step?
What do you think would be a good method to make the video easilly understandable...... ?
Quoted from jrcmlc:Bring in a narrator.
good idea if I knew how to add a narrator to the video afterwards.
Quoted from mbaumle:Edit in some text boxes over the video periodically that explain the process.
Can you explain to me how to add text in my video? I don't know how.
Quoted from jid:And don’t be afraid to go slower. Lots of people pause videos to see what is really going on. If you go too fast, it is harder to follow.
The most helpful thing in a ‘how-to’ type video is an index. Mark where you do certain parts so it is easier to skip to.
I for one am exciting to watch your video. This is something I’ve been wanting to do and have been afraid to do. But don’t worry about it being perfect…. You aren’t competing for something that is going to go viral!
What do you mean by "index", sorry but I don't understand.
Quoted from Green-Machine:Shoot for viral! We expect greatness
Whether I shoot for greatness or not, it won't be great, first because I'm not that type of guy and second because I want it to be usefull, not great.
1 week later
Quoted from BigBlockFever:Update on my random ball lock awards , I ended up replacing the 10 opto board ( pinball life) and my problems are solved! Wanted to mention that the ball lock coil was intermittently firing even in the attract mode. Huge shout out to Coyote ,GILV , The_Pump_House . The information you all give us on these forums is simply outstanding! Hope one day to “pay it forward” to a fellow pin enthusiast. I’m thinking about getting my original board sent out for repair if there’s someone recommended. Again , thank you gentlemen!
I'm pretty sure that Coyote and The_Pump_House are way better than I am at repairs, I was only posting my experience..... but I'm glad you found your problem and that, maybe, I could help.
1 week later
Quoted from PlayerPiano:Hiya TZ folks!
This may be more of a common machine issue, but my right upper flipper has started getting weaker on me and not making the camera shot.
The switch activates like normal and the mech/flipper bat seems to throw fully when pressed. However, it seems to not have strength behind it as it barely moves when flipping against the ball. There's also a slight chatter to it sometimes when it activates.
Thoughts? Is it more likely the coil is giving out or do i maybe need to adjust/tighten the flipper bat/rod as it may be loose?
Same problem on mine last week and changing the sleeve on the flipper coil for a new one fixed the problem.
Quoted from Hdmike444:Quick question
I’ve stripped my playfield down and I’m cleaning for reassembly and my game is an early one with the two posts in the pop bumper area, my question is how do I cover those without it looking bad or affecting gameplay?
Thx!
Just like they do it from the factory.
IMG_0333 (resized).JPGQuoted from Hdmike444:Are this flush with the playfield? Where can you find them?
They are not perfectly flush but since the ball moves around so quickly in that area, you would never know the difference.....
I don't think you can find them from a pinball parts store but they are very similar to these:
https://www.amazon.ca/uxcell-16-7x4-3mm-Decoration-Phillips-Self-Tapping/dp/B0B7DJD4GQ
I'm pretty sure you can find something that will work/fit at a local hardware store.
I'm looking at adding a mod to my TZ but I need a 12 volt source.
Can someone guide me to where I can find a 12V source on a connector from the backbox boards please?
Thanks.
I'll post pictures of my mod once installed for those who are curious.
Quoted from Pinkitten:Most original boards have a 12v and 5v post at TP1 on the power driver board you can clip an alligator clip to. Like this…
Or, Pinball Life sells a 12v power tap board for WPC games for $10.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Thanks, much appreciated.
1 week later
Quoted from rx3:When I click on your link, it shows instructions.
good observation, indeed, instructions are there.....
Quoted from LTG:Pinbits seems to have disappeared.
LTG : )
That's all? I knew that....
I noticed that in this kit, the magnet bracket and magnet are included, those were not included with the Pinbits kits.
Anything else?
1 week later
Quoted from Coyote:Okay - any forward/backward play (towards back of game to front of game) in the minute hand? It could be that the minute hand is occasionally missing the 12:00 opto..
Good thinking.... I don't chime much on this thread because I'm not the best at repairing these pns but I love reading it, it's very interesting how we can learn from others, it fascinates me how some members can find a problem on a game without even having the game in front of them.
1 week later
Quoted from ktm450:Just in case anyone has trouble with their clock down the track, I was having an issue with my clock continuously running backwards on startup.
It also ran backwards all game and only briefly stopped when going into look at errors.
In the clock function test it would only run backwards. All optos registered fine.
The clock could run forwards and backwards in the solenoid test though.
When disabled in the menu the clock still would constantly run backwards.
I replaced U1, the 4N25 optocoupler on the motor board under the playfield, which solved the problem.
Hopefully this will help someone diagnose the problem if it shows up.
[quoted image]
Thank you sir, you did'nt have to post but you DID, and that sir, is a nice move, it'll help lots of people for sure over the next few years.
1 month later
Quoted from ParisPinballAdct:I understand.
Yes i figured shipping costs were a bit low but since it was automatically calculated by Pinside for ”International orders” i thought they know what they’re doing.
Thanks anyway for your help providing a solution, i will look for a distro.
Cheers
I use these chrome balls, they are exactly the same as Ball Baron's and they are much cheaper.
I've used these in my TZ for many months now and have had no issues at all.
They are sold as a lot of 100 or 50 balls.
Quoted from jrcmlc:Exactly the same. Lol.
Tell me the difference then.
If you're reffering to the size. I made a misteke in my first post and corrected after the links.
Quoted from jrcmlc:You're the one smearing Ball Baron's famous Ninja ball by pretending some generic shit off ebay is "exactly the same" so you must already know for a fact they are "exactly the same" or you wouldn't have posted that right?
Or are they "exactly the same" like your cobbled up 3rd magnet kit is "exactly the same" as ours, the one everyone else including HEP uses? Or that repaired board you milked everyone for info about, that is "exactly the same" as the brand new one from Victor ya?
Come on buddy. Have the decency to say something more like "I've used these generic balls from ebay for a while and they seem to be fine" or something instead of telling the world they're "exactly the same" as the #1 ball.
Oh well, you seem to have waked up on the wrong foot this morning "buddy" , according to the description the seller gives, they are exactly the same and not according to my standards.
About everything else you mentioned, I only try to help people out the best I can with my poor english abillities (because I'm french), sure maybe it may be badly interrpeted by people like you, who seem to search for the "bad"in people.
That's all I have to say "buddy", I have no bad intentions what so ever.
I'm sure my post will help lots of people SAVE money, but I understand, in a way, why you might not be happy about that.
Have a great day anyway "buddy".
Edit: Hey! Why do I feel like Rudy in Funhouse?
Quoted from jrcmlc:Yes so much $ will be saved buying Chinese generic balls off ebay. Good work. I'll go back to packing up the orders for hundreds of Ball Baron balls I received overnight.
I take account of what I read in the listing, not on assumptions/guesses.
You tell me to be carefull of what I post and you post this?
Here's a copy and paste of the product description, notice it says "country/Region of manufacture , United States"
Item specifics
Condition
New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item in its original packaging (where packaging is ... Read moreabout the condition
Material
Chrome
Country/Region of Manufacture
United States
Bearing & Bushing Part Type
Precision Ball
MPN
BC501116CH
Brand
BC Precision
Type
Ball Bearing
UPC
704088089666
Quoted from jrcmlc:Why do you keep editing this?
Like I said, I'm not good in english and when I reread my posts I realize that I make mistakes, in this sentence I said: "why you might not be happy about you that".
I removed the "you" at the end of my sentence, which had absolutely no sense.
I'd like to see you write in french, maybe you would do a few mistakes as well.
Quoted from jrcmlc:It has nothing to do, still, with you being french, Canadian, aussie, German or anything else. I have no idea why you keep mentioning that.
The bottom line is that those are not the same balls, the level of finishing is not going to be the same, the shine is not going to be the same and I sincerely doubt they are actually made in the US regardless of what the ebay info says. They are using stock photos to boot. I stand by them not being "exactly the same" unless that is in fact a language barrier issue and really what you meant was "similar but not as good, but workable for some people" in which case I say cool. Go for it.
I've bought Ninja balls and I bought these afterwards but you'll probably say that we can't see the difference with a naked eye, What ever..... I'm tired of this.....
I think they are the same but it's OK if you want to doubt, it's your choice/opinion and I respect that as well.
Let's move on......
The seller's answer is interresting but he does not say where the balls are made though, he's not a manufacturer? of course he's not. in other words, he did'nt answer the question clearly. he must be a politician.
I think I'll ask him.
I don't understand this question, please clarify:
"If you can't see a difference with the naked eye what would be the point?"
If I can't see the difference between Ninja balls and these balls, is it bad?
it's a good thing to me but maybe you did'nt well understand what I meant?
Yes, he's right, I'm sorry as well.
I'm still thinking of the way I'll be making the videos for the 3rd magnet mod but I'll most probably be doing many small videos, step by step, if I can with no speech, but that might be hard.
We'll see.
I'll post the videos here for those who are interrested.
Quoted from jrcmlc:Waxed for sure.
I really don't want to derail this thread but, You were right, the balls from the listing were'nt from the U.S. , it's funny that when you ask the same question (asked differently) at the same person, you get a more precise answer.
The listing has been corrected now and indicates that the balls are made in India.
That answer satisfies me,' India is'nt China at all as for quality..... , but, I also understand that India is'nt the Unites States also.
To each there own, I don't mind buying again from the same seller.
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