(Topic ID: 63352)
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Twilight Zone
Bally, 1993
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Quoted from Seatmandan:They are two of my 4 game lineup and are not going anywhere ever. Keepers.
Totally agree there!
3 weeks later
Hello friends! I am looking for an assist on troubleshooting here. My new to me TZ has played pretty well the first month, it had some issues with the slot kick out being loose that were easily resolved and a couple solder points on coils I have fixed.
This weekend I got “into the zone” and when finished the mode the game was unable to refill the gum ball due to lack of power on the auto plunge, although it tried, and the ball count was off rendering a very good ball 1 unplayable. It took a few ball dumps and resets to get things working again, but I did get it resolved.
My next “into the zone” didn’t fare as well, after halfway through the auto plunger stopped working completely, and game froze when all balls drained. I messed around with power off like any good 90s Windows kid, and when that didn’t work I tried pulling all balls manually and figured out I had a power issue to some of the playfield / Coils.
I found fuse F112 blown, and can easily replace that and intend to take apart and clean the auto plunger coil and order parts for a rebuild there.
What else should I be looking for or concerned about, with this fuse blowing? This is my first older game and don’t see much in this thread particular to that issue, so appreciate any insight anyone can provide-
Quoted from Manny65:F112 is the 50V circuit that drives all the coils. These are split up later to 5 separate circuits protected by F101-F105 - I firstly suggest checking that these fuses are the correct fuses (you'll find the list of fuses in the manual - which if you don't have it can be downloaded from ipdb.org). Sometimes fuses will go simply because of their age otherwise (and more likely) a coil has locked on and caused the fuse to pop - turn the machine on (if any smoke or burning smell turn the machine off) then go into solenoid test and verify every coil works - this will determine if there is a damaged coil that needs to be fixed (it may cause one of the above fuses to go again). Let us know how you get on
I will double check the others, and run through the suggested tests, thank you for that tip and the reply! Replacing the F112 the game worked fine immediately and on startup reloaded the gum ball without fail. No burning smell, keeping an eye on things. My one self-induced problem after replacing that fuse was the fuse in the power by the coin door popped loose, and everything shut down. I had pulled that out troubleshooting earlier and didn’t get it locked in properly it seems. Have played a few games with the new fuse and will let the kids keep playing it until I have time to work on the auto plunge coil, since it was a known problem child already with longer games and the 6 ball multi mode.
1 week later
Quoted from bikefreak:Well, I guess I knew the powerball could fly but wasn't expecting this.
"I'm not coming down unless you promise to stop hitting me!"
[quoted image]
“It’s not yours!” LOL
1 week later
So I need a little help / advice on this.
There were a couple added lights that didn’t work when I got the game, one led strip in the back corner and a single spotlight hangin loose under the gum ball. They were separately tapped into two GI bulb sockets with weak or broken solder joints. I pulled those wires off the bulbs, spliced them together into alligator clips to test them, remounted the spotlight where I wanted it, and had them on a GI bulb in the back left corner.
After that point, the game would reboot on occasion when I shot the right ramp and activated the diverter, or the lock shot pop-out, or the piano shot.
Figuring I had caused a voltage issue, I took off the alligator clip and the reboots seem to have stopped.
So I am trying to find a way to hook those lights up without causing issues......this TZ has this speaker wire spliced into the back box for power to a led strip under the mini play field. The led lights up immediately when I turn the game on and is powered outside of the normal GI connections. Anyone recognize this or know what I am looking at here? I am tempted to tap this power to run the other lights, but don’t want to cause any major issues with any back box boards or components.
What I know about this machine is someone in the Minneapolis area did most of the mods / upgrades and then it was with a couple different owners in Chicago before finding me.
Thanks in advance!
357A436F-22C9-41D7-8339-483A02559042 (resized).jpeg5D61AB06-B36E-44D0-9775-F59AC1037D16 (resized).jpegAAA75D82-8AF0-427A-92C3-5249135C66FF (resized).jpeg 1 month later
Quoted from hawknole:Took some closer up pics today…
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
She’s a beaut, Clark!
Really great work.
4 months later
Quoted from Thor-NL:Now you made me want to play a TAF!
Never played one, seems I missed out
TZ is better!
4 months later
Hey gang, I have a right lower flipper coil that needs replacement. Seems to be expanded in the sleeve and constricting the motion. Replacing sleeve was a chore (very tight) and did not solve the problem. Here’s what I see current wiring…….which doesn’t seem to match the manual? Thoughts on this? Just match what was there is my instinct, but I don’t want to just ruin another coil with somebody else’s bad wiring. Will also note that my left lower coil is a stronger than recommended one, so not super sure what all is going on here. Thanks in advance-
BCC30825-A348-4F11-8A62-C0AA7F4790D9 (resized).jpegQuoted from bakerhillpins:I'm going the other way on this... Always check against the manual. Get the proper coil and validate the wiring/coils on ALL of the flippers. Inspect the coil stop now and let that be your guide to buy and install a flipper rebuild kit for $25.
There are so many fixes made by geniuses out there that "work" I'm never surprised at what I find next.
So should the coil have the rectifier diodes? That’s what I don’t see in the manual, appears they are on all coils.
Full disclosure, I replaced the flipper optos with new ones from Marco and then this flipper started acting up, probably unrelated but who knows. My machine has some creative wiring throughout, and I’m not wanting to do a complete tear down and correct it all at this time.
Quoted from bakerhillpins:That era game does have the diodes on all the coils.
Replaced flipper optos - Did you replace the entire board mounted to the side of the cab or just the optos on the board? Was there a problem that drove you to change them?Might not have much of a choice if things are not behaving well.
I replaced the entire opto board on each side with a closer to stock solution. The boards that were in there when I got the game had the adjustable magnets and stage flipping setup which seemed to be causing some consistency issues.
Quoted from bakerhillpins:Trying not to confuse 2 different issues here. WRT installing the correct Opto Flipper switch boards, did you confirm that the wiring wasn't modified for the alternate setup.
Aside -- I'm not sure I understand what you're describing here: Adjustable magnets?Are you saying someone installed a 2 switch stack. So pushing in activates the lower first, then the upper?
GLM opto boards are plug and play replacements for the standard ones so no concerns there. Here’s the manual:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/glm-flipper-optos-manual-or-adjustment-guide-needed
Swapped coil, flipper still sticking. Thinking it’s electronic not mechanical, there’s an audible buzzy sound before it drops. Thoughts?
Quoted from LTG:Remove coil stop, slide coil off and leave hang. Top of coil stop concave or worn ? End of plunger have a sharp edge or mushroomed ? Is the pawl catching the end of the EOS blade ? If so rebuild it.
Does the flipper bat have a tiny bit of up and down play to prevent binding on the nylon bushing ?
LTG : )
Thanks LTG. Plunger looked good and I replaced coil stop since I was in there already. EOS is not catching with manual activation and I cleaned it again to be sure.
Doesn’t seem to be binding it has play up and down.
I just went into the flipper test menu and right flipper hold makes the buzz noise but doesn’t activate the flipper.........what would that indicate?
Ok I will try that next. Thanks everyone!
It sticks in game play, doesn’t quite raise in test mode as shown in the video.
Quoted from Manny65:I'm confused - did you replace the GLM flipper boards, or are the GLM boards what you used as the replacements? Note that the original and most after-market flipper boards are opto based (not magnet) and staging is standard on the B/W flipper boards.
Removed the GLM. What do you mean by B/W?
Quoted from Manny65:But in test did you try raising the flipper with your finger to see if the "hold" power would grab the flipper and hold it up? As it is not designed to raise the flipper - please confirm that the hold circuit is actually working properly
It is not working properly, I am trying to troubleshoot that. Swapping the new boards I got from Marco the problem was still on the right lower flipper, slightly different in how it failed but still not right. I’m going to look at it tomorrow when I’m fresh......had a friend stop by and we played the working games and had a drink so all is well for now.
Here's where I stand with the flipper issue (recap):
Had some issues with flipper power
Replaced the GLM opto boards with this part from Marco: https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-15894
Right lower flipper started sticking, shut game off for a couple weeks and just got back to it last night
Tried to replace coil sleeve and it was super tight, so I replaced coil and coil stop.
Flipper now sticking very consistently with a buzzing sound (video previously posted).
Flipper test showed flipper hold not working properly on lower right flipper (video previously posted)
swapped new flipper opto boards side to side, and right flipper now was fully actuated / stuck up when I started a game (switched off quickly)
Checked my opto installs, seemed correct
power on, now had no power or hold on right flipper
swapped opto boards side to side again, same issue no power to right flipper
replaced EOS, reflowed coil solder joints to be sure, finished rebuild since I was in there that deep
still no power to the right flipper
So seems like something was going bad and is now gone. I'm probably a little over my head on this one, but appreciate any suggestions anyone has at this point-
Quoted from Manny65:Post a pic of your installed flipper opto board and opto interrupter bracket - as the GLM board had a customised interrupter with a magnet and if you only replaced the board, I'm not sure what interrupter is being used or how it is working. I would have expected you needed to replace the whole lot with something like this https://www.pinballlife.com/fliptronics-1-flipper-opto-board-set.html
This is not correct - in the video you never raised the flipper manually (eg with your finger) to see if the hold circuit would keep the flipper raised. The flipper hold circuit is not designed to raised the flipper (that is the job of the flipper power circuit) - that fact that the flipper hold circuits on the other 3 flippers manage to raise the flipper itself is irrelevant.
Most likely you've blown fuse F904 - don't rely on a visual inspection, remove the fuse and test the connectivity with a DMM.
As to why the flipper activated when you started a game could several reasons - I'd suggest keeping the coin door open so that your 50V is disabled, such that you can go into switch test mode and verify your flipper switches are working correctly without damaging anything.
Sorry I wasn’t clear, I did verify the flipper is completely dead in all tests as you suggested.
Fuse mentioned tests fine for continuity and looks normal.
I will check the switch tests soon, thank you for the assistance here-
9924F5B6-A22B-4936-9A03-9E91CA96C3CE (resized).jpeg9BA3C4CF-0D87-4647-BB43-C99738A211D6 (resized).jpegQuoted from Manny65:Use Flipper Test mode (T.12) to verify the flipper mechs are working
Use Switch Edge test (T.1) to verify the new flipper switches are working - watch the matrix display on the DMD as to how many switches are activated (you should get the lower power & lower hold as you partially press the flipper button, and then the upper power & upper hold as the button is fully depressed).
T.12 has no power or hold on lower right flipper
T1 tests the button press and EOS, not the coil power and hold, correct?
left flipper has 4 switches working (button lower, EOS lower, button upper, EOS upper)
right flipper has 3 switches working, right lower EOS not engaged as would be expected with no power to right lower coil.
Manually moving the lower right flipper will activate EOS properly.
Quoted from Manny65:Ok check that you have 50v at all 3 lugs on the flipper coil.
Voltage show zeros on that coil for all three lugs. All other flipper coils test good and are at 50+
Quoted from Manny65:So you need to trace back why you don't have power at the flipper coil. The lower right coil is powered by the blue-yellow wire from J907-7 and fuse F904 - check the voltages at all all 4 fuses on the Fliptronics board (they should all be the same). If you have power on both sides of F904, then the issue is either the J907-7 connector or the wire to the coil has a break in it[quoted image]
Found a blown fuse but it appears to be at F901. I have 5a and 7a handy and there was a 3a in there so guess I need to hit the hardware store tomorrow.
Quoted from Manny65:Make sure you buy Slow Blow (SB) fuses
[quoted image]
If F901 was blown your upper left flipper shouldn't be working, unless someone has done some creative wiring - I'd suggest that you check the J907 connector as the wires are most likely around the wrong way.
[quoted image]
Replacing F901 has me up and running, will play it a bit and make sure it's solid before messing with any wiring or other connectors. Definitely have seen some creative wiring on this machine, so nothing surprises me. Thanks again Manny65 for all of the help on this!
1 month later
Quoted from ray-dude:Thanks for the pointers! I will check them out.
Practical play question since I've forgotten - when the game loads balls at the beginning, does it load the gumball machine with 3 balls or 4 balls? (mine is loading 4)
I'm having an issue when I lock a ball with extra ball lit. When the ball drains, machine is not registering the need for a new ball. It goes through the ball search a couple times then kicks out the locked ball. After that drains, get the extra ball as normal. I suspect it may be confused about the number of balls available.
All the switches in the trough are working, as are the switches in the lock area. Only thing I can think of is maybe it is loading an extra ball into the gumball for some reason, and losing track?
I haven't had to work on the gumball mechanism before. I'll dig into the manual and see if something may be going on there.
Other than that, game is playing amazingly well and we're loving it!
I remember reading recently there is a 7 ball setting somewhere in the menu, might check that first?
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