(Topic ID: 63352)

Twilight Zone Owner's club

By Caucasian2Step

10 years ago


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  • Latest reply 1 hour ago by Coyote
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#15301 28 days ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

If electrolytic capacitor leak repair is something you're considering then always clean everything and use a DMM to check continuity.

Best solvent to remove electrolyte? Thx

#15302 28 days ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Marcon 100uF @ 35V electrolytic capacitor

I have been changing a lot of Marcon and some I.C., I.T. capacitors on all WPC systems.
This line of Williams games has all of their capacitors used in their games are now END-OF-LIFE.

#15303 27 days ago
Quoted from dboeren:

I'm battling a reset problem on my Twilight Zone.

Not a reset issue but very seldom, when having a longer game and multiple multi-balls, my game will get confused and kick out 2 balls after drain. This will continue for the rest of the game, but once a new game is started, all is fine and back to normal. I don't have to cycle power. It's pretty rare so I've not tried tracking it down.

#15304 27 days ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Best solvent to remove electrolyte? Thx

Sorry. I am not an authority on this. I just post about my experience to try to help others. I sanded off the corrosion to expose the damage so I could make a better assessment on the path forward. I used isopropyl alcohol to clean the board. I repaired it by using an axial capacitor to avoid the radial pads/holes and just tacked the lead of the capacitor to the appropriate point to restore continuity.

1 week later
#15305 16 days ago

I was wondering if anybody had an original invoice for their TZ.

I recently went to fix a TZ with a reset problem. No big deal, new bridges on the driver board, new caps. The owner was looking through their records and paperwork as they recalled taking it to the distributor (Atlas) around 25 years ago for service. He found an Atlas invoice for "display repair" ($25 to replace display ribbon cable). I also saw his ORIGINAL invoice from Atlas that listed the machine dated 5-20-94. It said "Closeout" and was priced at $1895 (??!!). An NIB TZ for $1895, even in 1994 money!

What was the original regular price of a TZ? Was it $3250?

I am fascinated with what machines costed when they were new, what they earned, and how these earnings created the boom of arcades during the late 70's and early 80's. I would like to write a book someday on this, possibly titled "Fistful of Quarters" . My first job was working in a skateboard park circa 1981 where I learned to work on machines. It was AMAZING what machines and arcades earned during this time!

I got my TZ from a vending company (that I still do some repairs for) in 1999, it had been routed for 6 years, and it was payment to me for doing their repairs for about 60 hours total. ($20 per hour x 60= $1200). Needed shopped, clock boards, and other stuff. It's a really nice TZ, I'll probably never part with it.

I did get my machines earning sheets from when it was routed. I never got the original invoice, but it had a chart saying "collection report" where it showed weekly amounts against a starting balance; I think it was $3250 + $900 (the $900 was the license (local permit for the machine). There was a running weekly total against the $4150 balance. Week 1 $4150 - $110, week 2 $4040-$185, week 3 $3855-$215, etc.... I'll post a copy of this if anybody is interested.

So, does anybody have their original TZ invoice? Or did someone ever list a pricing sheet online? Thanks, mk

#15306 16 days ago

TZ was a closeout for as low as $1600 at some distribs. I paid $1600 for mine from an operator (frank the crank) in 1994 as he had it on a dead location, no one ever played pinball there except me and my friends. I didn't realize it was that game until I got it home and noticed the coin door dent from where I'd kicked it on location (yeah, youth) - so it was the same TZ that I played all the time that ended up in my collection.

#15307 16 days ago

I can say that I bought my TZ for $1500 but it was coming off route, not NIB. Don't have the receipt.

#15308 16 days ago
Quoted from dboeren:

I can say that I bought my TZ for $1500 but it was coming off route, not NIB. Don't have the receipt.

I appreciate your responses Slochar and deboeren.

I was wondering if anybody had an invoice from the distributor; like the guy whose driver board I fixed that still had his invoice from Atlas Dist.

I was able to access the rec.games.pinball newsgroup database, and this question was raised in 2005. Many said (including LTG) that they paid around $3000 to $3300 for new ones in mid 1993, and the "closeout" prices started in late 1993 into 1994 in the mid 2k ranges

#15309 15 days ago
Quoted from SiN13:

I'm debating getting the lights for the posts, possibly for all 8. I think the switch kit I got also allows me to wiring them to the switches opened or closed so they turn on or off during a hit.

Following up on my powerfield & LED posts, I decided to try sin13's idea and wire the 2nd switch on the new low-profile switches to GI on the overhead lamp. This way, the respective LED posts would light when their rubber was hit. This was cool, but I decided I liked it better wiring them to the 500k mini-PF lamp. This way, they work in attract mode, and get more use as the 500k lamp flashes in any powerfield sequence (500k, 750k and 1000000).

I

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#15310 10 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

I have been changing a lot of Marcon and some I.C., I.T. capacitors on all WPC systems.
This line of Williams games has all of their capacitors used in their games are now END-OF-LIFE.

Thanks Vec-tor and others who were on this feed. My TZ's opto board cap had begun puking. I checked this after seeing the feed in the TZ group. I removed the old poopy cap.

I cleaned & restored the board. Fortunately, the electrolyte was not so bad and cleaned up without much trouble. Toothbrush with white vinegar, followed by a distilled water wash, more brushing, then 90% iso alchohol and more brushing. No trace damage, board looked like new after cleanup.

I replaced this with a low esr 100uf 50v. I also changed the 100 uf cap on the motor driver board for the gumball motor.

Thanks again, mk

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#15311 8 days ago

Hoping someone in here can help me diagnose this strange behavior! So I had to remove the mini playfield to do a little maintenance and after putting everything back together now upon start-up the machine is blowing the fuse that controls the monitor and the game seems to be continuously trying to reload the gumball machine. I shot a quick video to show some of the behavior, which I hope helps better demonstrate what's going on:

In the video, you'll also see after a few seconds that I also put the balls back in the game (forgot I didn't put them back!) but even after the balls are put back the game never actually kicks any out to reload the gumball. It's just continuously firing but not kicking the balls out. I can hear the gumball trying to reload and the diverter moving intermittently as well.

I really have no idea what's going on right now! Game worked perfectly before I started my maintenance work, so obviously I fudged something up!

#15312 8 days ago
Quoted from atg1469:

so obviously I fudged something up!

Two identical connectors under the mini playfield. One for optos. One for magnets.

Odds are you mixed them up and fried your optos.

I'd start there.

LTG : )

#15313 8 days ago
Quoted from LTG:

Two identical connectors under the mini playfield. One for optos. One for magnets.
Odds are you mixed them up and fried your optos.
I'd start there.
LTG : )

Nope. All the mini playfield connections are good. That would’ve made sense tho! Certainly seems like an opto issue but why the fuse is blowing I don’t understand…

#15314 8 days ago
Quoted from LTG:

Two identical connectors under the mini playfield. One for optos. One for magnets.
Odds are you mixed them up and fried your optos.
I'd start there.
LTG : )

Nope. All the mini playfield connections are good. That would’ve made sense tho! Certainly seems like an opto issue but why the fuse is blowing I don’t understand…

#15315 8 days ago
Quoted from LTG:

Two identical connectors under the mini playfield. One for optos. One for magnets.
Odds are you mixed them up and fried your optos.
I'd start there.
LTG : )

Nope. All the mini playfield connections are good. That would’ve made sense tho! Certainly seems like an opto issue but why the fuse is blowing I don’t understand…

#15316 8 days ago
Quoted from atg1469:

blowing the fuse

Fix the cause of this first. Everything else after this is fallout. LTG's suggestion is a VERY common cause for introducing big problems after working on the miniPF. I would not be so quick to dismiss it.

You can see the problematic circuit in the video. Take a closer look.

You probably should do some more reading. See https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC#LEDs_and_test_points_on_WPC-089_Power.2FDriver_Boards for more information.

I am guessing you are enjoying your electric playground.

#15317 8 days ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Fix the cause of this first. Everything else after this is fallout. LTG's suggestion is a VERY common cause for introducing big problems after working on the miniPF. I would not be so quick to dismiss it.

Easy to check. Wire colors on both sides of the connectors. But he said the mini playfield connections are good.

LTG : )

#15318 8 days ago

Certainly not dismissing anything but I can confirm all the appropriate wires are connected. They’re color coded so unless I’m completely missing something I can’t see this being an issue.

#15319 7 days ago
Quoted from LTG:

Easy to check. Wire colors on both sides of the connectors.

150% agree with this.

Quoted from LTG:

But he said the mini playfield connections are good.

Good is not the same as color identical across the connection. Color matching is NOT specified.

Quoted from atg1469:

Nope. All the mini playfield connections are good. That would’ve made sense tho! Certainly seems like an opto issue but why the fuse is blowing I don’t understand…

#15320 7 days ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

150% agree with this.

Good is not the same as color identical across the connection. Color matching is NOT specified.

Oh. So you’re saying it’s possible I have one of the connections upside down (or the like) and that could be causing the issue?!

I’ve removed/reinstalled the mini pf more times than I’d care to admit and never once had this issue come up, but I’ll go back and double check.

#15321 7 days ago

All the wires are properly connected. The molex connectors are grooved so I couldn’t plug them in upside down even if I wanted to, so unless I’m missing something I think it’s safe to rule this out as the culprit.

#15322 7 days ago
Quoted from atg1469:

The molex connectors are grooved so I couldn’t plug them in upside down even if I wanted to,

Not upside down. Mixed up, wrong one in the wrong one. They are identical except for purpose and wire colors.

I don't know how to better explain this. The opto connector male and female, are identical to the magnet connector male and female. So it's possible to plug the opto connector into the magnet connector.

Apparently not your issue, according to your post #15318 . So I'm more covering this for others in case they need help.

LTG : )

#15323 7 days ago
Quoted from LTG:

Not upside down. Mixed up, wrong one in the wrong one. They are identical except for purpose and wire colors.
I don't know how to better explain this. The opto connector male and female, are identical to the magnet connector male and female. So it's possible to plug the opto connector into the magnet connector.
Apparently not your issue, according to your post #15318 . So I'm more covering this for others in case they need help.
LTG : )

Yep, totally get it. So based on this behavior and what I’ve read in other forums, it seems like there’s likely a short or wire issue with an opto or motor component somewhere, does that track in your mind?

If so, am I just looking for something touching metal to metal around those parts or would a disconnected wire also cause something like this? I’d think if a wire was not connected I’d just get an error message and not this crazy behavior but what I don’t know could fill a book!

Appreciate the help as always!

#15324 7 days ago

Did a little more digging and it seems that whatever is blowing the fuse is connected to J118, which I know is providing 12V power to the playfield and cabinet but unfortunately that doesn't seem to help a whole lot. I'm guessing now I just need to trace this wire down the line and see if I can find any issues but if anyone has any tips to possibly help narrow down the search I'd be all ears!

#15325 7 days ago
Quoted from atg1469:

Did a little more digging and it seems that whatever is blowing the fuse is connected to J118, which I know is providing 12V power to the playfield and cabinet but unfortunately that doesn't seem to help a whole lot. I'm guessing now I just need to trace this wire down the line and see if I can find any issues but if anyone has any tips to possibly help narrow down the search I'd be all ears!

What maintenance were you performing on the mini PF? Stands to reason that your 12v issue should be in that area if you're certain you didn't swap the connectors that LTG was referencing. No changes anywhere else in the machine between the last time it was playing correctly and the quirky behavior?

#15326 7 days ago

I also notice in your test video that 12v works until it doesn't - you get most the way through testing before your color LCD and speaker lights die. The issue doesn't "appear" until the specific item that is malfunctioning fires in power on self test. When I check my machine, I don't see or hear anything fire at that point in testing, which I would assume means it's when the optos fire and test. Surely it's optos on the mini PF causing you issues, which I know is circling back to what has already been discussed.

Unplug the mini pf optos and replace the 12V fuse - what happens?

#15327 7 days ago
Quoted from aamauzy:

I also notice in your test video that 12v works until it doesn't - you get most the way through testing before your color LCD and speaker lights die. The issue doesn't "appear" until the specific item that is malfunctioning fires in power on self test. When I check my machine, I don't see or hear anything fire at that point in testing, which I would assume means it's when the optos fire and test. Surely it's optos on the mini PF causing you issues, which I know is circling back to what has already been discussed.
Unplug the mini pf optos and replace the 12V fuse - what happens?

So in addition to working on the mini PF, I also did a little work around the clock area where I removed the clock to try and investigate why I've been having some bounce back issues with the main lock area, but I didn't touch any wiring or anything like that. I've since gone back and disassembled that area to double check and make sure I didn't accidentally sever an opto wire or something but all of the optos and soldering points look solid. I've also removed the mini PF opto wire and fired the game back up and the fuse immediately blew, it didn't even make it to the boot up sequence this time around.

#15328 7 days ago

Replacing the fuse and removing J118, game fires up and seems to be working but I’m now able to see this error message on screen.

F115 & 116 all check out but not sure what it’s telling me to look for in J112?

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#15329 7 days ago
Quoted from atg1469:

Replacing the fuse and removing J118, game fires up and seems to be working but I’m now able to see this error message on screen.
F115 & 116 all check out but not sure what it’s telling me to look for in J112?
[quoted image]

I can also confirm that none of the LED indicator lights are coming on for any of the opto boards under the pf, but I'm guessing J118 is supplying the power to these boards?

#15330 7 days ago
Quoted from atg1469:

I can also confirm that none of the LED indicator lights are coming on for any of the opto boards under the pf...

That makes sense - you don't have 12v right now, so your optos have no power. If your optos have no power, the game won't be able to find balls which would probably be why it's doing wacky stuff with the gumball machine and not loading balls into the autolauncher. Also since you don't have 12v, that is what would be causing the error you're seeing based on the entry in Pinwiki regarding that message: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Check_fuses_F114_and_F115_message

"Since the WPC switch matrix circuitry on the MPU uses 12V to determine switch state, the game assumes that the 12VDC power has been interrupted. F114/F115 fuse the 12V generation circuit; F114 on the AC side of BR1; F115 on the DC side of BR1. Hence, the game assumes that one of these fuses is blown and the message is displayed. "

So you've confirmed for certain your short is on J118 - that's progress!

J118, 116, and 117 are interchangeable 12v outputs usually used for optos. You've almost certainly got a short on an opto specifically on the connector in J118. IF not an opto, "something" else that is pulling 12v from the connector you have on J118

#15331 7 days ago
Quoted from aamauzy:

That makes sense - you don't have 12v right now, so your optos have no power. If your optos have no power, the game won't be able to find balls which would probably be why it's doing wacky stuff with the gumball machine and not loading balls into the autolauncher. Also since you don't have 12v, that is what would be causing the error you're seeing based on the entry in Pinwiki regarding that message: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Check_fuses_F114_and_F115_message
"Since the WPC switch matrix circuitry on the MPU uses 12V to determine switch state, the game assumes that the 12VDC power has been interrupted. F114/F115 fuse the 12V generation circuit; F114 on the AC side of BR1; F115 on the DC side of BR1. Hence, the game assumes that one of these fuses is blown and the message is displayed. "
So you've confirmed for certain your short is on J118 - that's progress!

Haha, I'll take whatever progress I can get! Reading through the laundry list of error messages, I did see the classic "clock is broken" message which seemed to stand out to me since I was working in that area. Is there any chance the clock could be causing all these problems? The rest of the errors were mainly switch errors but all the switches seem to test fine individually. Again, knowing that the game was working just fine before I started working on it, I'm assuming the issue has to be located around the areas I was working, but maybe this is too simplistic of thinking?

#15332 7 days ago
Quoted from atg1469:

Haha, I'll take whatever progress I can get! Reading through the laundry list of error messages, I did see the classic "clock is broken" message which seemed to stand out to me since I was working in that area. Is there any chance the clock could be causing all these problems? The rest of the errors were mainly switch errors but all the switches seem to test fine individually. Again, knowing that the game was working just fine before I started working on it, I'm assuming the issue has to be located around the areas I was working, but maybe this is too simplistic of thinking?

I'm really bad about editing messages as I think more - be sure to check the latest version of my last post for a few more details just in case they were posted while you were typing, I think it will answer your switch matrix question/comments.

"Clock is bad" is a common message, more than likely unrelated to your underlying issue. The clock boards use several optos, and if you don't have functional 12 volt for optos, your clock "looks" extremely bad right now as none of the optos are responding.

Simple thinking on something like this is the best thinking: "what changed before this happened" or "what was touched before this happened" is the first step. "what happened" was mini PF was taken off/messed with. We know there are optos on the mini pf. If there is anything ELSE on your mini pf that is pulling 12 volt (lighting mods? switch mods?), those could be culprits too.

And it COULD be something weird in a random spot using 12v and this whole mini pf thing could be a coincidence, but I still think focus first should be paid to the mini pf.

#15333 7 days ago
Quoted from aamauzy:

I'm really bad about editing messages as I think more - be sure to check the latest version of my last post for a few more details just in case they were posted while you were typing, I think it will answer your switch matrix question/comments.
"Clock is bad" is a common message, more than likely unrelated to your underlying issue. The clock boards use several optos, and if you don't have functional 12 volt for optos, your clock "looks" extremely bad right now as none of the optos are responding.
Simple thinking on something like this is the best thinking: "what changed before this happened" or "what was touched before this happened" is the first step. "what happened" was mini PF was taken off/messed with. We know there are optos on the mini pf. If there is anything ELSE on your mini pf that is pulling 12 volt (lighting mods? switch mods?), those could be culprits too.
And it COULD be something weird in a random spot using 12v and this whole mini pf thing could be a coincidence, but I still think focus first should be paid to the mini pf.

Fair enough. I do have an added lighting mod underneath my mini-playfield, so I'll remove that and see if that could be causing the issue. That mod is currently working just fine when I turn on the game though, so not sure why that would be an issue but can't hurt to remove it and see what happens.

#15334 7 days ago
Quoted from atg1469:

Fair enough. I do have an added lighting mod underneath my mini-playfield, so I'll remove that and see if that could be causing the issue. That mod is currently working just fine when I turn on the game though, so not sure why that would be an issue but can't hurt to remove it and see what happens.

If it's working right now, it's likely not using 12v. You're right that it's probably not your issue.

#15335 7 days ago
Quoted from aamauzy:

If it's working right now, it's likely not using 12v. You're right that it's probably not your issue.

Another idea, if I remove the mini-pf and then replace J118 and turn the game on, if all works well that should narrow it down to the mini-pf being the main culprit, correct?

#15336 7 days ago
Quoted from atg1469:

Another idea, if I remove the mini-pf and then replace J118 and turn the game on, if all works well that should narrow it down to the mini-pf being the main culprit, correct?

Yep! That's what I was referring to but worded poorly in post 15326 a bit ago. Unplug the connectors, or completely remove the mini pf. Replace your 12v fuse, plug j118 back in, and see what happens.

#15337 7 days ago
Quoted from aamauzy:

Yep! That's what I was referring to but worded poorly in post 15326 a bit ago. Unplug the connectors, or completely remove the mini pf. Replace your 12v fuse, plug j118 back in, and see what happens.

Welp, it was indeed a disaster of my own making. The little light strip I added to the bottom of my mini playfield shifted during the last install and was shorting something underneath. I’ll have to figure out a solution still for that but happy to have tracked down the culprit! Appreciate everyone’s help as always!

#15338 7 days ago

Glad to see it's solved... Not to change the subject but curious if you are you the one building the toppers or is that someone else in your company?

Quoted from atg1469:Welp, it was indeed a disaster of my own making. The little light strip I added to the bottom of my mini playfield shifted during the last install and was shorting something underneath. I’ll have to figure out a solution still for that but happy to have tracked down the culprit! Appreciate everyone’s help as always!

#15339 7 days ago
Quoted from jrcmlc:

Glad to see it's solved... Not to change the subject but curious if you are you the one building the toppers or is that someone else in your company?

Haha, I’m most certainly not the engineer of the operation, but I suspect that was the gist of your jest

#15340 7 days ago
Quoted from atg1469:

Welp, it was indeed a disaster of my own making. The little light strip I added to the bottom of my mini playfield shifted during the last install and was shorting something underneath. I’ll have to figure out a solution still for that but happy to have tracked down the culprit! Appreciate everyone’s help as always!

That will do it! Glad you found the issue!

#15341 7 days ago
Quoted from jrcmlc:

Glad to see it's solved... Not to change the subject but curious if you are you the one building the toppers or is that someone else in your company?

I can confirm he CAN turn a screwdriver successfully - I've seen it myself

#15343 6 days ago
Quoted from atg1469:

Welp, it was indeed a disaster of my own making. The little light strip I added to the bottom of my mini playfield shifted during the last install and was shorting something underneath. I’ll have to figure out a solution still for that but happy to have tracked down the culprit! Appreciate everyone’s help as always!

Another happy landing.

#15344 5 days ago
Quoted from atg1469:

Haha, I’m most certainly not the engineer of the operation, but I suspect that was the gist of your jest

Love the topper, btw. I’ve had mine installed for a year or more now, and it works great and always sends a mini pinball around the loop when locking a ball in the gumball machine. With the blue lit door and the eye in the pyramid it’s a very unique design!

#15345 5 days ago

Does anybody have a scan of the two ramp decals with the stars on them?

#15346 5 days ago
Quoted from Pinkitten:

Love the topper, btw. I’ve had mine installed for a year or more now, and it works great and always sends a mini pinball around the loop when locking a ball in the gumball machine. With the blue lit door and the eye in the pyramid it’s a very unique design!

Appreciate it! We recently launched a “silver screen edition” of this topper that I really love as well. If you haven’t seen it yet you can check it out here: https://www.teppinball.com/store/p/tz-bw

#15347 3 days ago

Is anyone interested in this clock PC board that I never installed? I recently sold the game and never got around to installing it.

$100 shipped to anywhere in the US.

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#15348 3 days ago

Going through Amazon Prime Day deals today and had this one come up for a TinyTV DIY Kit, 20% off at $59.96. Thought it might make a cool little mod, load it up with a couple favorite episodes.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086K4VLX2/

tiny_tv (resized).jpgtiny_tv (resized).jpg
#15349 3 days ago

Cool toy, but the actual TV itself looks terrible. At least print it with resin...

#15350 2 days ago

Does anyone have a picture of TZ rad cals, mirror or rad cals, glitter?

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