(Topic ID: 63352)

Twilight Zone Owner's club

By Caucasian2Step

10 years ago


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271 posts in this topic match your search for posts by jason_jehosaphat. You are on page 2 of 2.
#11296 2 years ago
Quoted from Manny65:

This is probably your issue as to why you ball is being launched vertically. All my machines that have that trough mech, strike the ball further back behind the ball which would reduce the amount of vertical force. My trough switch sits more under the very bottom of the ball.
So either the kickout mech has been installed in the wrong position or is possibly the wrong part (eg a shorter version to what TZ uses??)

I would wager that the parts that make up the ball-release kicker are all stock. There is certainly a chance that mine were mounted slightly out of position, but I bet you would see that my kicker tip meets the ball in very nearly the same place that yours does if you were to inspect my game. I'm not going to demount the kicker, fill the holes with glue-slathered dowels, drill new holes, and remount the parts. I'm just going to continue scrubbing power from the coil however I can. No one has commented on my mechanical solution involving a limiter, but that's what I will try next.
Thanks for your ideas.

#11297 2 years ago
Quoted from awesome1:

Yeah, mine doesn't eject with much force either...
Take a look around the 12 second mark and see the ball kickout. It may give you some insight. I have a LITZ recording as well, but can't see the balls being kicked out in it...

Thanks for the video.
Your game plays great - as do *you*! Great multiball!

#11300 2 years ago
Quoted from Zee:

If you are pursuing the weaker coil option, why not use a resistor in series with the coil?

Because I know very little about electronics and that solution was never mentioned when I brought this up earlier.
It sounds more affordable anyway.
How do I choose the right resistor and where do I wire it in?

#11301 2 years ago

I just lost all my switches on column 2.
Green-brown, J206-1.
This happened somehow when I was swapping coils.
How do I bring the column back?
Test report doesn't mention a short.

#11303 2 years ago
Quoted from Zee:

After some calculating, I see that a 69 Ohm coil at 80 volts is 93 watts. That means a large power resistor would be needed so this is probably not a good solution. Forget I said anything!

Oh.
Got it.

#11309 2 years ago
Quoted from McDoom:

When I enter any multi-ball mode, the balls lock and fail to eject into the shooter lane.

Does the trough work normally before you reach a multiball? Does the outhole kicker move the balls to the right end of the trough? Does the ball-release kicker push balls up to the playfield where they roll to the shooter lane? I'm assuming the answer is yes if you're able to play your game normally before MB begins. You write that the ball-release kicker clicks but no balls are released. This is confusing because the game requires balls for normal non-MB play, so we know the ball-release kicker works. I would go into single solenoid test and select "ball-release"/repeat. That will make the ball-release kicker fire repeatedly. I would also go into switch edges and depress the far-right switch in the trough to be sure it's actuating normally. Your trough has six switches.
From left to right they are outhole; far-left/left/center/right trough; and a proximity sensor. Test all of them in switch edges. Removing the apron first makes this much easier. The proximity sensor (tiny board with an infrared transmitter) will only open if you lay a ball in end of the trough. You can't actuate it with your finger.

#11310 2 years ago

Well, I need to troubleshoot my switch column #2. As I wrote, all of those switches are down and the test report mentions no short. I have scrutinized the wiring/diodes on the involved switches and I see no broken wires and no shorting. I don't know how I injured the MPU. I did some coil swapping but my repairs were (obviously) done with the game off. Will the whole column go down if even a single switch has failed? I do have some replacement micro switches on hand. The only switch on this column that I recently replaced is that of the ball shooter and the game played fine after I changed it. The switch column went down only after I installed a "limiter" in my ball-release kicker in my effort to scrub some of its power. The limiter is a 1/8" medallion cut from a stray plunger laid inside the coil sleeve to effectively shorten the throw of the plunger. Could the limiter be causing a short?

I found the instructions below on Pin-Wiki. Is this my next step or is it wiser to first replace the U20 chip on the MPU?

6.26.4 Switch Matrix Problems
Isolate the problem to the MPU or to the game wiring/diodes/switches

Follow these steps to determine if the switch matrix problem is on the CPU or somewhere in the game wiring.

Remove connectors J206/J207, J208/209 and J212 from the bottom of the CPU (J206 and J207 are electronically the same and J208 and J209 are electronically the same).
Clip one lead of a test jumper to pin one of J207 making sure you don't touch any of the nearby pins on J207.
Power the game on, and enter Switch Edge test (you've left J205 on the CPU so the diagnostics switches still work).
Touch the other end of the jumper to pin one on J209, then pin two and so on. You should see (and hear) the CPU indicate that switches #11, #12, #13, etc. are being "made" as you touch the pins of J209. You should *never* see multiple switches being made.
Move the jumper from J207 pin 1 to pin 2. Re-test to every pin on J209, listening for the machine to read every switch as closed. Continue in a similar manner testing each pin of J207 to every pin in J209.

A diode is not required since the test jumpers directly from a single pin to a single pin. Remember, the purpose of switch diodes is switch isolation. Also, have no fear conducting this test. Unless you connect one end of the wire to high voltage, nothing can be damaged.
C20C7956-2949-4EA4-BC76-746B3F8A462F (resized).jpegC20C7956-2949-4EA4-BC76-746B3F8A462F (resized).jpeg

#11313 2 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Is the problem mechanical or electrical?

Electrical.

Quoted from DumbAss:

Closely read the Pinwiki instructions and see what you think they are trying to accomplish.

I know what they're trying to accomplish with this test, yes. I just asked if I might throw a new chip in U20 rather than do the jumper dance between J207 and J209. If the column is still out with a new chip, *then* I will do the test. If the column returns with the new chip, I'll know it was the chip and I'll have spared myself the putzy chore of the jumper dance. Besides, the jumper test requires considerable precision because my jumper jaws aren't small enough to grab a single pin and not short to a neighboring pin.

Thanks for your input.

#11314 2 years ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

Do you have the blue dampening rubber "pad" at the top of the trough exit or could it be missing?

As a matter of fact, no, I do *not* have any pad there. There's no hole there to accept a grommet. Is the pad just a square of 1/8" rubber? I have no reference.
Thanks.

#11316 2 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

He's thinking of the later ball trough assemblies which are different than the one in TZ.
LTG : )

Got it.
Thanks.

#11317 2 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Is the (electrical) problem central or peripheral?

It's central.

I replaced the U20 IC chip on the MPU and my switch column has returned.

Big thanks to LTG for supplying me with a replacement chip.

I still need to deal with excessive power of the ball-release coil, but at least I have my switches back. I'm going to try a dual-wind coil like this one. 322 Ohms in the secondary position sounds high enough to give this coil a small fraction of the stock coil's power. I have one in there now that has 69 Ohms of resistance and it's much too powerful. How much power do I lose to the additional 250 Ohms of resistance? What percent? Can it be calculated?
dual.wind.coil (resized).jpgdual.wind.coil (resized).jpg

#11319 2 years ago
Quoted from Zee:

How much power do you lose? Assuming your high-power DC circuit is 70 volts

The ball-release coil is described as "low-power" in the manual's solenoid table. What is the voltage of such solenoids? Is there any chance my power driver board is supplying high power to this particular solenoid rather than low? I mean, why on earth does my coil blast the ball out of the trough like a Stern machine when other TZ owners describe their ball releases as "leisurely"?

Quoted from Zee:

Watts = Voltage squared / resistance
As for mechanical power, you'd have to take the linkage and leverage into consideration to get that figure.

Thank you. It sounds like I'm scrubbing more than 75% of the coil's power by going to 322 Ohms. That will be helpful. I will try the coil.

#11324 2 years ago

Ball-release coil voltage, anyone?

As some of you have read, my ball-release kicker punts the ball clear over the diverter and into the shooter lane.

I wondered if my voltage to the coil is screwy so I metered it and the reading is 77VDC. This I believe is standard Bally "high power" voltage not under load. The manual lists this coil as "low power," however. What is standard Bally voltage for a low power coil? And if you don't know, can you tell me where this number might be listed in the service manual? Do I see "50V" in the schematic? If so, why do I meter 77VDC at the coil?

Thanks!
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#11325 2 years ago

Wiring a "Load" Coil in Series: Please Help

In my effort to tame my ball-release coil, it was suggested to me by Steve at The Pinball Resource that I wire a second ("load") coil in series with the game's coil to add resistance and thereby figure out how much resistance will be necessary to attenuate the game's coil sufficiently. This information would help me choose a single coil to replace the stock coil. His method is as follows:

1. Desolder the power lead to the game coil.
2. Use a jumper to jump from that hanging lead to the identical lug on the "load" coil.
3. Use a second jumper to jump from the remaining lug on the load coil to the power lug on the game coil.
4. Lay the load coil on a folded rag laid in the bottom of the cabinet where the coin box ordinarily sits.
5. Power up the game and test the kicker strength.
6. Repeat with other donor coils as necessary until the optimum resistance combination is found. (I have a range of coils of various resistances.)

If I'm careful to avoid shorting the power lead to any part of the game other than the load coil, will this wiring scenario keep me out of trouble? Will it accomplish what I hope it will?

Thanks.

#11326 2 years ago
Quoted from McDoom:

The balls are locked and not releasing when multi ball is achieved.

Oh. That's different. You used the term "trough" to describe the lock. That put us on the wrong trail. You need to troubleshoot your lock.

Take the glass off and go into tests/switch edges. Push three balls, one at a time, into the lock. The display should show each of the lower, center, and upper optos open as each ball comes to rest inside the lock.

Next test the solenoid that expels the balls from the lock. Find it in tests/single solenoid/lock release. When testing solenoids, you must choose "stopped," "running," or "repeat." Choose repeat and then okay until all three balls are expelled, then press okay once more to return to the "stopped" phase.

You wrote that you're hearing a "clicking" in the lock but the balls aren't emerging. That release kicker is tiny and its plunger is small. It's mounted on a bracket that has some adjustability. It's possible that that the plunger is out of position and not kicking the balls properly, despite firing on command.

#11353 2 years ago
Quoted from Staf:

Plasma ball installed .
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Nice work!
Looks dope!

#11354 2 years ago
Quoted from Ditch_Digger:

Mission: Lube the clock.
I got the smallest Super Lube oil and grease containers. I won’t use much and the applicators are handy. Total approx $7.50 delivered from Amazon. I put oil on the pins with a Q-Tip and grease on all gears (a center-of-tooth stripe around all teeth).
I found one gear difficult to remove. The gear shaft had been marred at some point when someone removed the E-ring…this has roughed up the inside of the plastic gear when it was removed. I didn’t have emory cloth and used steel wool to try to smooth the pin.
The center shaft is a little worn. It’s hard to believe nylon can wear steel, but I guess it can.
I may add another gear and new center shaft to my next parts order if they are available. The gear pins are in pretty tight and I’ll probably get some emory cloth to smooth it instead of replacing. I feel like this clock can get quieter.
*I tried to post before and after videos to show the noticeable difference, but couldn’t figure out how. ☹️[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Thanks for posting your project. Very interesting. My clock gears make a racket, too, but I believe they all do. I've read here about lubing the gears. Cool that you are tackling it! What's your final assessment? Worth the effort? Now whisper quiet or more or less the same?

#11355 2 years ago
Quoted from Ditch_Digger:

The playfield is very nice…I thought it was exceptional until I saw y’all’s pics and realized yours are very nice, too.

I learned early on that original TZ's are more often really nice than raggedy. It's unique in pinball, as though the operators were so exasperated with the game's complexity that they didn't bother to rout them and instead just stored them, selling them years later for peanuts to other ops or to collectors. The collectors who bought them lavished much love on them, although so many of the games had many fewer hours of use than, say, TAF's had, and that meant their restorations required a bit less work. The result is that I'm always running into examples of TZ that are super clean. I never see roached examples, and I do *not* think that's because they're all restored. It's because an unusually high fraction of them saw little use!

Oh, and your TZ is straight dreamy!
Awesome!
Congrats!

#11356 2 years ago
Quoted from Ditch_Digger:

the playfield was autographed and then re-clearcoated by a well known pinball clearcoater, but I can’t remember his name.

Ooh! Double sweet! You've got yourself a "Kruzman"!

Quoted from Ditch_Digger:

I’ve now completely rebuilt the flippers on my Addams Family and have successfully soldered switches, reflowed lamp boards, and a few other minor things.

Look at you go! Nice work! Now you can truly shop a game!

Quoted from Ditch_Digger:

I’ve read the entire Owner’s Club thread and I’m thinking of mods.

The *whole* thread? Gosh. That would take me hours!

Quoted from Ditch_Digger:

I’m about to Jason the hell out of this forum.

You funny, bruh'. Lots of very knowledgeable people on this thread - like, perhaps the most impressive bunch you will come across on any owners thread! (Which should surprise no one give how complex TZ is!) Heck, I will try to return the favor and help you myself if I can, but that would be one rook' to another. Maybe not so clever!

Quoted from Ditch_Digger:

In fact, your PF mini switch hack saw hack gave me the confidence to soon try the mini switch mod. I don’t like Mickey Mouse, either…and I have a dremel.

Go for it! It's a dope, streamlining mod and the extra effort to fit it is worth it.

Quoted from Ditch_Digger:

I will attempt the following mods:
1. Davi’s 4 flasher door lamp board. Adds to the game.
2. Twister’s mini switch kit. Unclutters the PF.
3. Compy’s Pinvision. It’s so cool and should brighten the game up and I may keep it all incandescent.

Those should all be great. I have the flasher-endowed lamp board coming, too. Not sure how long it will take to ship from Budapest. Probably a solid month. That TV mod is super fly, but also spendy! I don't think I'll be adding that one!

#11358 2 years ago
Quoted from Manny65:

Nah there's plenty out there that had a hard life[quoted image]

That game was recovered from a flood, then stored as-is for a decade.
I don't think I would dare undertake to shop this one. Probably too far gone. I would like to pick it over though and see if I could possibly recover sone salvageable parts.

#11368 2 years ago

Taming an Overly Energetic Ball-release Coil:

You may remember I've been trying to scrub some power there by installing coils of progressively higher resistance.  Right now I have a 29-2000 installed (stock is 26-1200) and it's still too powerful.  I bought a 30-3000 Bally coil from The Pinball Resource just this past week and even that is too powerful.

I metered the voltage at the coil (77VDC) and then metered the voltage at the coil on a friend's TZ (73VDC), so I know I'm not getting a screwy amount of voltage at my coil.  Then I did the load-coil-in-series test proposed by Steve at The Pinball Resource.  I desoldered the power lead to the coil, jumped from the lead to a second ("load") coil at the same lug, then jumped from the load coil's opposite lug back to the game coil's power lug.  I laid the load coil on a folded rag in the bottom of the cabinet where the coin box usually sits.  I have the following low-power coils to work with for this test:

23-800
24-900
26-1200
30-3000

None of the first three coils above, wired in series, had any scrubbing effect, even when I combined them.  The 30-3000, however, finally tamed the game's coil - only so much so that the game coil couldn't even push the ball out.  So, I don't have the coils I need to figure out precisely how much resistance I actually need, but I can guess.

The 29-2000 is 33 Ohms and the 30-3000 is 69 Ohms.

69 is too little. The two combined (100) is too much.  So, I'm guessing I need about 85, but there is no coil that I can find on any chart that has that kind of resistance.  At the very least this test has taught me that a dual-wind coil would have too much resistance and would be useless to me.

Do you have any suggestions? Again, this is a serious problem because the kicker will punt the ball clear over the diverter and into the shooter lane. This mucks things up often, especially during multiballs and at the conclusion of LITZ, when the game is trying to reset and must reload the Gumball Machine.

Thanks for reading my post!

Addendum:

I did find this dual-wind Stern coil which apparently has 83 Ohms resistance:

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/090-5013-00

It's a "flipper" coil, so it's external dimensions may be wrong for my purposes.

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Hey modders!
Your shop name here
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