(Topic ID: 63352)

Twilight Zone Owner's club

By Caucasian2Step

8 years ago


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#10601 3 months ago
Quoted from Coyote:

<snip>
The colors reported on the display are for the switch row and column.

Oh. Got it. Thanks.

Quoted from Coyote:

<snip>Pages 3-16 and 3-17 will answer the wire-color issue for you, and will also show you where to check next.
13.77v is a good voltage on 12vu (unregulated).

Also very helpful. Thanks!

Quoted from Coyote:

<snip>
This is assuming, too, that you used your cel-phone camera, aimed it at the emitter (the white one just across) and saw a glow.

No glow on #83 before, but I'm happy to report that I installed a new opto set from Pinball Life today and the switch is working again. Whew!
Thanks for putting up with all my photo-laden posts. I was some worried there! I will check my voltages tomorrow - from the black side only!

#10602 3 months ago

LED ColorDMD, anyone?

I know LCD ColorDMD's are very common in TZ, but are there listmembers here who have/prefer the LED version?

Sadly, I can't find any clips of TZ's LED ColorDMD on YouTube to compare. Indeed it's hard to find any clips at all of LED ColorDMD's, but I did find one of TFTC and it looked bright/dope.

Thanks.

#10603 3 months ago
Quoted from Jason_Jehosaphat:

LED ColorDMD, anyone?
I know LCD ColorDMD's are very common in TZ, but are there listmembers here who have/prefer the LED version?
Sadly, I can't find any clips of TZ's LED ColorDMD on YouTube to compare. Indeed it's hard to find any clips at all of LED ColorDMD's, but I did find one of TFTC and it looked bright/dope.
Thanks.

I love the LED version of ColorDMD! I really like the look, sadly I don't currently have a good video. I liked it so much on TZ, I also put one in my Independence Day and it looks fantastic in that as well.

IMG_5520 (resized).JPG
#10604 3 months ago

I too prefer the LED ColorDMD look over the LCD in general but feel it sorta depends on the game. That said, the LED for TZ looks awesome. I’m out of town right now but will grab video of the TZ I’m restoring when I get back late tonight. I just installed a LED ColorDMD and it looks great. Here’s a still shot for now.

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#10605 3 months ago

They have a video of the colordmd for tz on their website.

#10606 3 months ago

Anybody have an tips for cleaning the bottom side? Subways/scoop etc.

How much disassembly required? Anything to watch out for?

#10607 3 months ago
Quoted from Jason_Jehosaphat:

LED ColorDMD, anyone?
I know LCD ColorDMD's are very common in TZ, but are there listmembers here who have/prefer the LED version?
Sadly, I can't find any clips of TZ's LED ColorDMD on YouTube to compare. Indeed it's hard to find any clips at all of LED ColorDMD's, but I did find one of TFTC and it looked bright/dope.
Thanks.

Quoted from awesome1:

I love the LED version of ColorDMD! I really like the look, sadly I don't currently have a good video. I liked it so much on TZ, I also put one in my Independence Day and it looks fantastic in that as well.
[quoted image]

Made a quick video of attract mode to show the basics of the LED ColorDMD... not the greatest video as my phone doesn't like the brightness of the display!

#10608 3 months ago

Temped in, a little wire management and replace the two plastics.

Removed that ugly lamp, lit star posts and concealed micro switches

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#10609 3 months ago

No Upper PF Magnet Action.

"Magnet Test" shows flipper switches closing with each flipper-button press, but no magnet pulses to affect test ball.
Spiral magnets work fine.
Thought it might be a fuse but don't see any dedicated to the magnets in the fuse list.
And yes, the upper PF connectors are connected, including the thick branch for the magnets.
Ideas?
Thanks.

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#10610 3 months ago
Quoted from awesome1:

Made a quick video of attract mode to show the basics of the ED ColorDMD... not the greatest video as my phone doesn't like the brightness of the display!

Thanks, Awesome.
That was helpful.
Looks great!

#10611 3 months ago
Quoted from Jason_Jehosaphat:

No Upper PF Magnet Action.

Was it working and stopped or did you remove the power field and now it doesn't work?

#10612 3 months ago

I am having an issue with Row 4 in the switch matrix.
I am still collecting facts and I will post on the general forum once I have all of the symptoms.

If I do not use the game for several days I get an error.
The game will boot ok. (Using 9.4CH Eprom)
You know there is going to be an issue if it prompts you to go into reports.
If it doesn't give you the prompt, all is fine.

If you leave it in attract it is fine.
If you go to start a game it spits out a ball then gives the (2) Danger warnings and goes into tilt.
Sometimes if you plunge the ball it will shoot it back to the out hole and give a second ball ( and tilt that one also) and other times it will not.
The error is always "the clock is broken".

If I use the game everyday. There is no issue.

If you go into test (again, please keep in mind I am still gathering facts)
(14) Plumb bob is closed
(24) Always closed is blinking
(94) 30 second is blinking.

You will hear the gumball VUK (74) shooting with nothing in it.

Usually, within 8 to 10 minutes of searching the tests, it will correct itself and all is well. There is no clock error and it functions fine. There is no tilt and it is fine. You can boot, reboot, and play a game(s) normally.

I am not going to use the game for a few days and do a full switch test to see/record condition of all switches in that row.
Then I am not going to use it for a few days and boot it with J212 disconnected.

Before I had this narrowed down, I believe it was still tilted with J212 disconnected. BUT, this was as I was trying to figure this out so I will not submit this as fact yet.
If no one has any insight to this, I will post as its own thread on the main forum.

#10613 3 months ago
Quoted from PinballAir:

Was it working and stopped or did you remove the power field and now it doesn't work?

I've never seen it work, frankly.
I played one test game when I bought the pin and didn't reach the upper PF.
I immediately started my shop job, including pulling the upper PF, when I got it home.

#10614 3 months ago

Do the magnets in the orbit work?

#10615 3 months ago
Quoted from PinballAir:

Do the magnets in the orbit work?

Yes, as I wrote, the "Spiral" magnets work fine.

#10616 3 months ago
Quoted from Jason_Jehosaphat:

Yes, as I wrote, the "Spiral" magnets work fine.

Follow the same procedures that you would follow if any coil stops working -
Check voltage at magnets. Check driver signal (continuity with ground) when magnet pulses. Work your way up from there.

#10617 3 months ago
Quoted from Jason_Jehosaphat:

Spiral magnets work fine.

sorry, missed that part

#10618 3 months ago
Quoted from Jason_Jehosaphat:

And yes, the upper PF connectors are connected,

did you test the upper pf entry switch to see if that works?

#10619 3 months ago
Quoted from PinballAir:

did you test the upper pf entry switch to see if that works?

Hmm.
Not yet.
I will get back to you.

#10620 3 months ago

I spent a good seven to eight hours breaking down my friend's PF. Oooof I don't think this game has ever been shopped out. My lord, this is going to be a long one.

I was also surprised by how puzzle like it is put together, it's a pretty neat PF setup. I can't say it's one of my favorites to work on, but I can't wait to get it back to its glory. Thank you all for the mod suggestions as well as other links. I'm feeling pretty good about this.

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#10621 3 months ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

I spent a good seven to eight hours breaking down my friend's PF. Oooof I don't think this game has ever been shopped out. My lord, this is going to be a long one.
I was also surprised by how puzzle like it is put together, it's a pretty neat PF setup. I can't say it's one of my favorites to work on, but I can't wait to get it back to its glory. Thank you all for the mod suggestions as well as other links. I'm feeling pretty good about this.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Whewwwwwwhee. That'll look completely revitalized once it's all cleaned up.

#10622 3 months ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Whewwwwwwhee. That'll look completely revitalized once it's all cleaned up.

Just wooof! Normally a vacuum and a dry rag and the PF is looking solid again. This one I had to go the naptha route and even that didn't touch some of this. It is legit caked on grime. I hate to do it, but I think it's magic eraser and simple green time tomorrow.

#10623 3 months ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

I hate to do it, but I think it's magic eraser and simple green time tomorrow.

I'd start with Simple Green and avoid the abrasive. Only use the abrasive for stubborn dirt that you want to remove. Remember that the dirt will come back as the game is played. It will come back faster if you don't clean out the subways on the game.

#10624 3 months ago

Source for used, WPC89 coin doors, anyone?

My coin door and frame look awful. Too much rust/corrosion and the door doesn't close smoothly. I don't want to take it all apart and refinish it. Too much work, too much expense. I would rather find a used donor door and frame. Any ideas where I should look? I wish there were a bone yard I could visit.
This photo is *not* my door!

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#10625 3 months ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

I'd start with Simple Green and avoid the abrasive. Only use the abrasive for stubborn dirt that you want to remove. Remember that the dirt will come back as the game is played. It will come back faster if you don't clean out the subways on the game.

Agreed, microfiber and green and then ME if needed (which I fear it might). Who knows SG is pretty dang aggressive on its own.

Oh subway is already out and waiting for its bath. Everything that can be removed and cleaned will be.

I'm also doing all new sleeves, springs, flipper and pop rebuilds...waiting to hear back from my friend on mods. I'd like to upgrade to the Mantis slot scoop as this one has been welded and is a bit deformed. I think the diverter magnet is a must too. This thread has been an amazing resource.

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#10626 3 months ago
Quoted from Jason_Jehosaphat:

Source for used, WPC89 coin doors, anyone?
My coin door and frame look awful. Too much rust/corrosion and the door doesn't close smoothly. I don't want to take it all apart and refinish it. Too much work, too much expense. I would rather find a used donor door and frame. Any ideas where I should look? I wish there were a bone yard I could visit.

I would just make a WTB post. I plan to upgrade the coin door on my MM when I do the cab, but that won't be for some time. Pinball life has new for under $200. They sell the raw frames for $10. You can maybe look around for the skins, for like $40 or so. That would put you in a great place.

#10627 3 months ago

Hey Everyone, quick question, I am about to start the mech rebuild process and I noticed my friend's PF has a 15411 and 11629 coils for the bottom flippers. The manual calls for the 15411. Before I order up another I just wanted to check in with y'all to make sure the 11629 wasn't some sort of "upgrade" or Williams bulletin or something.

Does anyone know why the left flipper might have been changed? My default is usually it's what the operator had and used, but I wanted to make sure.

#10628 3 months ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

Hey Everyone, quick question, I am about to start the mech rebuild process and I noticed my friend's PF has a 15411 and 11629 coils for the bottom flippers. The manual calls for the 15411. Before I order up another I just wanted to check in with y'all to make sure the 11629 wasn't some sort of "upgrade" or Williams bulletin or something.
Does anyone know why the left flipper might have been changed? My default is usually it's what the operator had and used, but I wanted to make sure.

Nope - should be 15411's. The tech bulletin only changed the part number for the EOS switch, and called out usage of the longer coil stop (shorter flipper travel)

#10629 3 months ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Nope - should be 15411's. The tech bulletin only changed the part number for the EOS switch, and called out usage of the longer coil stop (shorter flipper travel)

Thank you!

#10630 3 months ago

Hi.
Pulled my upper PF in my effort to troubleshoot the magnets.
Hoping to find something obvious under here but, alas, no such luck.
What are the odds that the current disruption is here and not farther up stream?
How does one intelligently troubleshoot this PF?
Do I raise the main PF, reconnect the upper's harness, and then test voltage at the connector closest to each magnet? That will be awkward for sure.
The other issue is the probes on my meter.
They are shielded almost to the tips.
I will need to stuff them into the female 6-pin molex to measure the voltage.
Last photo below shows the connector for magnet portion upper PF's harness.
Not sure how much success I will have testing the mate with my probes.
Might have to fashion a test-specific connector with short leads.
I'm a bit lost here.
Ideas?

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#10631 3 months ago
Quoted from Jason_Jehosaphat:

Hi.
Pulled my upper PF in my effort to troubleshoot the magnets.
Hoping to find something obvious under here but, alas, no such luck.
What are the odds that the current disruption is here and not farther up stream?
How does one intelligently troubleshoot this PF?
Do I raise the main PF, reconnect the upper's harness, and then test voltage at the connector closest to each magnet? That will be awkward for sure.
The other issue is the probes on my meter.
They are shielded almost to the tips.
I will need to stuff them into the female 6-pin molex to measure the voltage.
Last photo below shows the connector for magnet portion upper PF's harness.
Not sure how much success I will have testing the mate with my probes.
Might have to fashion a test-specific connector with short leads.
I'm a bit lost here.
Ideas?
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

First off, you should be able to pull the ends of the probes off to expose a longer prong. All my testers do this so yours should as well

#10632 3 months ago

I generally probe the molex plugs from the rear ( where the wire goes in)
That way they can be connected during test AND you are less likely to distort the actual connection male or female.

#10633 3 months ago

Hi Jason_Jehosaphat,

I had a problem with the magnets which stopped working on my TZ mini-playfield several years ago. The issue ended up being my U-20 chip (ULN2803) was fried. See the URL below for the troubleshooting involved and a final resolution. Post #4 in this thread contains a URL which details the troubleshooting involved and eventual resolution.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tech-tz-problem-with-all-switches-on-column-4

Gord

#10634 3 months ago
Quoted from GRB1959:

Hi Jason_Jehosaphat,
I had a problem with the magnets which stopped working on my TZ mini-playfield several years ago. The issue ended up being my U-20 chip (ULN2803) was fried. See the URL below for the troubleshooting involved and a final resolution. Post #4 in this thread contains a URL which details the troubleshooting involved and eventual resolution.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tech-tz-problem-with-all-switches-on-column-4
Gord

Hi, Gord.
Thanks for the suggestion.
None of my switches is out, so I don't suspect a fried U-20. I could be wrong, of course.

#10635 3 months ago

3-6 in service manual shows Solenoids #25 and 26 (left and right upper PF magnets) are powered by the DC Motor Control board, which sits below the back right corner of the main PF.
Mine appears fine. Am I looking for voltage at J124, 1 and 2? And *what* voltage?

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#10636 3 months ago
Quoted from Jason_Jehosaphat:

3-6 in service manual shows Solenoids #25 and 26 (left and right upper PF magnets) are powered by the DC Motor Control board...

The motor control board only controls the clock motor movement.

#10637 3 months ago
Quoted from ramegoom:

The motor control board only controls the clock motor movement.

Thanks.
My mistake.
Solenoids 25 and 26 are powered by the Power Driver Board!
I misread the diagram.

#10638 3 months ago

Magnets Continued...

Can I safely probe this connector during the solenoid test (25, 26) from the back?
1 and 2 feed the upper PF magnets.

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#10639 3 months ago

Back-probing on an IDC connector is not always reliable. It's much better to follow the connection to the actual device, then forward-probe the device connectors. Also, you would need to check terminal-to-pin tension to assure the connection is sound. Terminals have internal spring plates to force contact tension to the mating pin, and if the spring tension goes away, the terminal won't make proper contact.

Also worth noting is that any header connector with pins should be checked on the PC board for solder integrity. Cold solder connections, especially the high current terminations, are fairly common and will drive you crazy until you find the culprit and re-flow the solder joint.

#10640 3 months ago
Quoted from ramegoom:

Back-probing on an IDC connector is not always reliable. It's much better to follow the connection to the actual device, then forward-probe the device connectors. Also, you would need to check terminal-to-pin tension to assure the connection is sound. Terminals have internal spring plates to force contact tension to the mating pin, and if the spring tension goes away, the terminal won't make proper contact.
Also worth noting is that any header connector with pins should be checked on the PC board for solder integrity. Cold solder connections, especially the high current terminations, are fairly common and will drive you crazy until you find the culprit and re-flow the solder joint.

Thanks for your suggestions.
Before I reflow any solder, I would like to check voltage at the upper PF's harness.
Pictured is the main harness's connector that supplies the upper's harness.
Solenoid wiring diagram shows power to 25 & 26 (left & right upper PF magnets) through blue/red and blue/brown, both of which I see at the connector.
Which wire here is common? Both of the lower magnets appear to have purple leads so I will assume purple is common in all cases.

Also, how does one best use solenoid test mode to check voltage? In solenoid test, you can cycle through "Running," "Repeat," and "Stopped." Do I leave it on "Running" and expect a constant voltage? And what voltage would that be? 50VDC? Can I safely test holding my probes as pictured with the game in solenoid test mode? I'm assuming 50VDC is fairly dangerous.
Addendum:
Decided not to risk handling the probes during test and fashioned a stand-in using a modified Z-connector and wire clips.

Thanks.

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#10641 3 months ago

Test Results:

I started by measuring the voltage at the connectors for the two magnets I know are working. Plugged my red probe into the connector's power lead and the common probe to the cabinet's ground braid. Set the meter to 200VDC.

Nada for both of the working magnets, so clearly my test arrangement is flawed. I'm now stuck. Also tried again with meter set to 20VDC.

Is the problem that I'm testing a disconnected connector? Must I leave it connected and test it from the back? I can't get my test probes in there and I'm spooked about doing any digging there during a magnet pulse.

#10642 3 months ago

Discouraging Development:

Voltage test at the driver board in "Magnet Test" shows @80V to each of the working left- and right magnets, but nothing to either the upper PF magnets.

What would cause this?

Am I overlooking something simple? A blown fuse comes to mind, but I see no mention of magnets in the fuse guide in the manual. All fuses on the driver board are fine.

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#10643 3 months ago

I am not sure if you are aware, but if you have the coin door open, the power to the coils is killed as a safety feature. So you won't get a reading.

As per the upper PF magnets, check all of your connectors and check your manual to see what fuse is associated with them.

#10644 3 months ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

I am not sure if you are aware, but if you have the coin door open, the power to the coils is killed as a safety feature. So you won't get a reading.

Not likely - TZ production only had this feature over a handful of very late-produced games; it's unlikely his game was built with the high-voltage interlock.

Quoted from Jason_Jehosaphat:

Pictured is the main harness's connector that supplies the upper's harness.
Solenoid wiring diagram shows power to 25 & 26 (left & right upper PF magnets) through blue/red and blue/brown, both of which I see at the connector.
Which wire here is common? Both of the lower magnets appear to have purple leads so I will assume purple is common in all cases.

You are jumping ALL over. Take a breather, and slow down.

Refer to page 3-14 in the manual for wire colors. There is no 'common' between the two magnets - each Mini PF magnet gets a different 50v bus than the other (this was by design, so flipping both flippers would not cause 'weaker' magnet pulses).

When the magnets are NOT active, you will see NO voltage difference between the power (Violet & Violet/White) and their drivers (Blue/Brown & Blue/Red). When the magnet is on (pulsed), you will see the voltage jump to 50vu and then back down.

So, while that is a valid test, you likely will not see anything. Better test would be to test each of the voltage wires (Violets) against something that is grounded (like the cabinet ground strap), in which you should ALWAYS see 50vu on the meter. If not, you aren't getting voltage. If you ARE, the issue with with the driver wires/circuitry.

Then, test CONTINUITY (beep mode!) between the driver wires (Blues) and ground. There should be NO continuity between the driver wire and ground, UNTIL the magnet pulses, in which case it'll beep for a short second ever few seconds. (With test in "REPEAT").

#10645 3 months ago
Quoted from Coyote:

<snip>
You are jumping ALL over. Take a breather, and slow down.<snip>

My apologies - to you, to everyone - but I have toiled over this game, "shopping" it to a fairly high standard over the last month, and I was hoping that I'd reached the finish line and could finally play the thing. I just wanted it realize its potential, so I tore it down and committed myself to sorting it out, truly. I didn't pay a lot for it but it needed a lot of attention. Along the way I have learned a lot, but, as I wrote earlier, am I a rank amateur tech and this game has obviously challenged me consistently. Troubleshooting the upper PF magnets clumsily is just one of what feel like dozens of hurdles, but I'm hanging in there. If I'm testing your patience, I'm sorry. I realize these threads shouldn't be dominated by the postings of a single user, but you are my best source for guidance and, again, I just wanted to play the game after weeks of work. I will try this last suggestion to the letter and see where I end up. Thank you!

#10646 3 months ago

Testing both violet ("power") leads at the connector to the upper PF's harness reveals c. 70V, so that's encouraging.
The continuity test on the driver wires of the working magnets reveals no beep but does show a pulse of c. 1.5V when magnet pulses in Magnet Test. The same test on the upper PF driver wires shows no continuity for pulses in solenoid test set on "Repeat."
Driver wires can be traced to the 8 high-power driver board beneath the PF.
If there are driver issues, do they originate at this board or on the main driver board?
I assume there are things to learn with the meter and this board.
A good samaritan nearby will let me test my A-16116 board in his TZ. If his magnets don't work with my board, I'll have my culprit.
Thankfully, these boards are for sale new.

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#10647 3 months ago
Quoted from Jason_Jehosaphat:

1.5V when magnet pulses in Magnet Test. The same test on the upper PF driver wires shows no continuity for pulses in solenoid test set on "Repeat."

"1.5V"? or 1.5 ohm? While you CAN do the test in DC mode, it's best to run it in continuity or ohm mode.

Quoted from Jason_Jehosaphat:

Driver wires can be traced to the 8 high-power driver board beneath the PF.

Yup, think of the 8-High Power Driver board as a 'repeater'..

Quoted from Jason_Jehosaphat:

If there are driver issues, do they originate at this board or on the main driver board?

Well, now, you need to run the same test with the driver wires, but with the ones going INTO the High-Power Driver board. The previous test were the drivers controlled by the High-Power driver (assuming you tested it at the plug to the mini-PF). Now, do the same test (DMM in Continuity/Beep mode), but testing the Blue-Brown/Blue-Red wires from the power driver board (J3-4,-5). If you get a strobe of continuity there, then the power driver board is GOOD, but the High-Power driver is bad. If you do NOT get a strobe of continuity, then the High-power driver is fine; it's not activating because it's not seeing the signal from the power driver board.

#10648 3 months ago

My apologies for asking, as I have not yet gotten to break down the mini playfield, but I was wondering if it uses the same magnet cores as the playfield? My friend's magnets have some wear and I know I can buy new cores, but if the minis were the same I would just swap them out. I know the body is the same, and the manual shows the same part number I just wasn't sure if they used the same core.

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#10649 3 months ago

Hmmf. Why didnt i think of that?

#10650 3 months ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

My apologies for asking, as I have not yet gotten to break down the mini playfield, but I was wondering if it uses the same magnet cores as the playfield? My friend's magnets have some wear and I know I can buy new cores, but if the minis were the same I would just swap them out. I know the body is the same, and the manual shows the same part number I just wasn't sure if they used the same core.[quoted image][quoted image]

No, the Mini PF's cores do not stick out through the playfield. I am not sure you could unscrew them deep enough to mount properly on the Mni PF. You can try; would involve just screwing the adjustable core down enough.

But the Mini PF's cores will NOT work in the main PF, because the cores are 'fixed' - non-adjustable.

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