(Topic ID: 63352)

Twilight Zone Owner's club

By Caucasian2Step

10 years ago


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There are 15,099 posts in this topic. You are on page 188 of 302.
#9351 3 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

*nods* Agree with everything. Met Mr. Silverman once, back in the 90's when he was doing down to MGM Studios - The TZ Tower of Terror. Kinda wished I got an autograph or something, now. Heh.
Anyways, with enough money, sure, we could have everything re-recorded. But would be really, really steep.

Let me see what I can do about that...

#9352 3 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Let me see what I can do about that...

I would be touched, thank you. I helped beta-test the software (waaay back when) the Tower of Terror was about to open. Back then, even though it was computer-controlled and allowed for different drop patters per ride, the number of 'random' drops was limited to 3 or 4. And adding new ones had to be tested before going live. By the time the ride was shit down, everything had been upgraded to where they could have upwards of 64 drop patterns stored, and a much better randomization pattern, so it was rare you would ride twice in a row and have the same drop.

#9353 3 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

I would be touched, thank you. I helped beta-test the software (waaay back when) the Tower of Terror was about to open. Back then, even though it was computer-controlled and allowed for different drop patters per ride, the number of 'random' drops was limited to 3 or 4. And adding new ones had to be tested before going live. By the time the ride was shit down, everything had been upgraded to where they could have upwards of 64 drop patterns stored, and a much better randomization pattern, so it was rare you would ride twice in a row and have the same drop.

I've read about that! Very glad Tower of Terror is still there in Orlando. The general atmosphere in that ride is SPOT. ON. They've upgraded it several times since then. Very cool that you got to work on that!

#9354 3 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

I've read about that! Very glad Tower of Terror is still there in Orlando. The general atmosphere in that ride is SPOT. ON. They've upgraded it several times since then. Very cool that you got to work on that!

Somewhere in my storage unit, I still have the costume I had once the ride opened. Honestly, despite being somewhat young, and getting paid shit? Was the best job I had.

#9355 3 years ago
Quoted from Manny65:

The lamp matrix in the manual shows this column as Yellow-Grey on connector J138-9, however all the lamps are on the PF except the start button and Buy-in button so these will typically be wired separately. Looking at the Power Board it shows the PF column uses J137-9 and the cabinet column uses J136-3 and this is confirmed looking at the Power Driver board schematic as J137-9 and J136-3 are the same. So I suspect that J136 plug is not connected or has a broken wire.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Thank you for this, just got some time to poke around. 136 was unplugged from the power driver board. Apparently intentionally to turn off the flashing front cabinet buttons.

#9356 3 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

I've read about that! Very glad Tower of Terror is still there in Orlando. The general atmosphere in that ride is SPOT. ON. They've upgraded it several times since then. Very cool that you got to work on that!

I live in Northern California and have been to Disneyland/California Adventure many times and the whole family loved Tower of Terror! We did go to Disney World once and liked the Tower of Terror there even better!

#9357 3 years ago
Quoted from awesome1:

I live in Northern California and have been to Disneyland/California Adventure many times and the whole family loved Tower of Terror! We did go to Disney World once and liked the Tower of Terror there even better!

The Disneyland ToT has been converted into some Guardians of the Galaxy ride now. Still looks similar on the outside but I have no idea what the ride is like. Still, it’s been 25 years for the ToT! Wow

#9358 3 years ago

So 1 out of 10 from the slot machine is SDTM. Any thoughts how I get it to 0 out of 10? So far my best play has been to let it dead flip off the right flipper (except for powerball, all bets off when that thing is out), cradle in the left and decide where I'm shooting. 9 out of 10 times, it's great, but it's always going to be on ball 3 of a great game that it ends with an SDTM (like just happened, prompting this post)! Just wanted to get ideas on how to adjust. Thank you all!

#9359 3 years ago
Quoted from bikefreak:

On to the next issue.
Do I go the flaky DMD or the double flipper = reset? (ordered the KAHR daughter board which will potentially differ needing to do the double flipper reset)

My KAHR board comes today. But still managed to go through pinwiki and troubleshoot the double flipper reset problem. Did most of the easy stuff and things checked out ok enough. I didn't change pins/connectors and fully expect them to be the issue. (or at least a strong contributor to it) Kept plugging through the list and read about the Z connector. Then kept going down the list. Getting done/checking all the easy stuff. No fixes found yet... Now needed to consider doing the harder steps... Then recalled I never reset the Z connector. Did that and "fixed" the issue. I know connector resets are temporary fixes. Removing the Z connector would fix it for good.

Here are some of the readings I got.
TP1 14.14v (12vu) (what does the vu stand for? unregulated voltage? if so, what does that mean?)
TP2 4.912v (5v)
TP3 11.96v (12v)
TP6 75.5v (50v but 75 is "normal" per wiki)
TP7 22.45v (20v)
TP8 17.6-18.2 (18v) this floated around quite a bit. Not sure if that is normal or not.
CPU pin 32 4.872v (5v)
BR2 8.5v (top left lead) I didn't know how to hook DMM up for other BR test(s)

My understanding is 5v feed is main driver for double flipper resets and 4.9+/- is probably cutting it close to the cutoff which is why it has been resetting.

Some solder joints were touched up on driver board so those are looking good.

So, based on the above, anything I should check out further? My thoughts are:
1) Replacing pins/connectors would be a good course of action
2) Remove Z connector and hardwire
3) Reassess
4) Replacing the LM323K 5V regulator with more modern one sounds like a good idea
5) I do have some of the blue capacitors (Philips) (not on MPU board but on Power driver (and sound? board)) Sounds like they are a common failure point but I don't know what failure behavior results in.

With this all said and about to put in the KAHR board, is any of this necessary? (sounds like no based on my reading)

#9360 3 years ago
Quoted from bikefreak:

My KAHR board comes today. But still managed to go through pinwiki and troubleshoot the double flipper reset problem. Did most of the easy stuff and things checked out ok enough. I didn't change pins/connectors and fully expect them to be the issue. (or at least a strong contributor to it) Kept plugging through the list and read about the Z connector. Then kept going down the list. Getting done/checking all the easy stuff. No fixes found yet... Now needed to consider doing the harder steps... Then recalled I never reset the Z connector. Did that and "fixed" the issue. I know connector resets are temporary fixes. Removing the Z connector would fix it for good.
Here are some of the readings I got.
TP1 14.14v (12vu) (what does the vu stand for? unregulated voltage? if so, what does that mean?)
TP2 4.912v (5v)
TP3 11.96v (12v)
TP6 75.5v (50v but 75 is "normal" per wiki)
TP7 22.45v (20v)
TP8 17.6-18.2 (18v) this floated around quite a bit. Not sure if that is normal or not.
CPU pin 32 4.872v (5v)
BR2 8.5v (top left lead) I didn't know how to hook DMM up for other BR test(s)
My understanding is 5v feed is main driver for double flipper resets and 4.9+/- is probably cutting it close to the cutoff which is why it has been resetting.
Some solder joints were touched up on driver board so those are looking good.
So, based on the above, anything I should check out further? My thoughts are:
1) Replacing pins/connectors would be a good course of action
2) Remove Z connector and hardwire
3) Reassess
4) Replacing the LM323K 5V regulator with more modern one sounds like a good idea
5) I do have some of the blue capacitors (Philips) (not on MPU board but on Power driver (and sound? board)) Sounds like they are a common failure point but I don't know what failure behavior results in.
With this all said and about to put in the KAHR board, is any of this necessary? (sounds like no based on my reading)

The KAHR board is more of a bypass than a fix but it should take care of your problem. Usually resets are caused by a failing cap I believe at location C5 on the power driver board. These are though to replace If you’re not up to the task. Multi layered boards are a real pain to desolder and it is easy to screw up and cause more damage.

#9361 3 years ago

Please don't shoot the messenger here as I'm only providing information that I've seen over a long period of time.

Quoted from bikefreak:

TP2 4.912v (5v)

This is terrible on the driver board itself as it should never be below 5V at the test point.

Quoted from bikefreak:

Replacing the LM323K 5V regulator with more modern one sounds like a good idea

It does and its a decent board but these come with their own long issues and they are throw away parts where the original LM323K were designed for long term continuous operation.

#9362 3 years ago
Quoted from bikefreak:

With this all said and about to put in the KAHR board, is any of this necessary? (sounds like no based on my reading)

This is the best post I've ever seen that explains why the KAHR board is not a permanent solution.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-pinball-keeps-turning-of-and-on-instantly#post-5959849

#9363 3 years ago
Quoted from RobbyIRL5:

So 1 out of 10 from the slot machine is SDTM. Any thoughts how I get it to 0 out of 10? So far my best play has been to let it dead flip off the right flipper (except for powerball, all bets off when that thing is out), cradle in the left and decide where I'm shooting. 9 out of 10 times, it's great, but it's always going to be on ball 3 of a great game that it ends with an SDTM (like just happened, prompting this post)! Just wanted to get ideas on how to adjust. Thank you all!

Make sure you are level side to side.

Mine never goes SDTM. Usually a deadflip off right flipper like you mention or I usually live flip for the left ramp.

#9364 3 years ago

What is the recommended flipper alignment in this machine? Attached is directly from above. Just rebuilt flippers and I think I’m too low now (as that dead flip from the slot machine hardly works, just hits the tip at best)

1FC274FF-4328-4BFC-B37A-615C46AB801A (resized).jpeg1FC274FF-4328-4BFC-B37A-615C46AB801A (resized).jpeg5BA8CCE1-4CC7-4F18-812F-F36581AF6B4A (resized).jpeg5BA8CCE1-4CC7-4F18-812F-F36581AF6B4A (resized).jpeg
#9365 3 years ago
Quoted from awesome1:

Make sure you are level side to side.
Mine never goes SDTM. Usually a deadflip off right flipper like you mention or I usually live flip for the left ramp.

The coil behind the scoop was really loosely mounted, causing inconsistency. They took down the entire playfield appears they forgot to tighten some screws. 10/10 now to the right flipper.

#9366 3 years ago
Quoted from RobbyIRL5:

What is the recommended flipper alignment in this machine? Attached is directly from above. Just rebuilt flippers and I think I’m too low now (as that dead flip from the slot machine hardly works, just hits the tip at best)
[quoted image][quoted image]

Toothpicks in metal roll-pins in PF, with toothpick between rubber and flipper bat.

#9367 3 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Toothpicks in metal roll-pins in PF, with toothpick between rubber and flipper bat.

This.

Yours looks good, glad to hear you fixed the slot scoop.

TZ is the baddest pinball of all time, IMHO. Enjoy!

#9368 3 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

I would be touched, thank you. I helped beta-test the software (waaay back when) the Tower of Terror was about to open. Back then, even though it was computer-controlled and allowed for different drop patters per ride, the number of 'random' drops was limited to 3 or 4. And adding new ones had to be tested before going live. By the time the ride was shit down, everything had been upgraded to where they could have upwards of 64 drop patterns stored, and a much better randomization pattern, so it was rare you would ride twice in a row and have the same drop.

That’s awesome that you got to work on that. I heard about this as well, I remember driving down the main road that takes you to the parks and they had a ToT animated sign (it’s still there), but back then they added numbers to it everytime they updated the ride with more randomizations. I think “4“ was up there for years before they finally removed the number not long ago. One of my favorite rides in all of WDW. Like someone else said the ambiance is spot on, I could hang out there for hours.

Edit: Found a pic of the sign

50675E52-B8A4-4D12-97A8-F82D8913EA88 (resized).jpeg50675E52-B8A4-4D12-97A8-F82D8913EA88 (resized).jpeg
1 week later
#9369 3 years ago

I’ve had the ball get stuck here a few times in the last few days. Any thoughts?

48829D5E-396A-4AFE-91FF-F1765D20910C (resized).jpeg48829D5E-396A-4AFE-91FF-F1765D20910C (resized).jpeg
#9370 3 years ago
Quoted from RobbyIRL5:

I’ve had the ball get stuck here a few times in the last few days. Any thoughts?
[quoted image]

Lose that silly saucer?

#9371 3 years ago
Quoted from RobbyIRL5:

I’ve had the ball get stuck here a few times in the last few days. Any thoughts?
[quoted image]

Seems there’s too much saucer. Check to see if you have a “screw loose” on your wireform

#9372 3 years ago
Quoted from yzfguy:

Lose that silly saucer?

What he said. Lol

Is anyone else a stock guy besides me? Almost all of my machines are dead stock, other than LEDs.

#9373 3 years ago
Quoted from PinJim:

What he said. Lol
Is anyone else a stock guy besides me? Almost all of my machines are dead stock, other than LEDs.

Are usually am, just pick this up didn’t even know it was a mod! That’s good info thank you.

#9374 3 years ago

Anyone still make this clock target mod?

072B17C7-C936-48DE-AB04-7D4BCB1A0753 (resized).jpeg072B17C7-C936-48DE-AB04-7D4BCB1A0753 (resized).jpeg
#9375 3 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

Anyone still make this clock target mod?[quoted image]

Is that silver ball attached to the target, or a pinball for the photo?

#9376 3 years ago
Quoted from yzfguy:

Is that silver ball attached to the target, or a pinball for the photo?

I think it’s just a ball in front of the target. Honestly don’t know for certain.

#9377 3 years ago

After owning this pin for over a decade I’m finally reading the rule sheet. All I gotta say is holy shit ... so much I really didn’t know.

#9378 3 years ago
Quoted from PinJim:

What he said. Lol
Is anyone else a stock guy besides me? Almost all of my machines are dead stock, other than LEDs.

I have a few subtle mods to go on some of my machines but most are as I purchased and predominately stock. All plasma DMDs - I just like the classic look and feel of the machines

#9379 3 years ago

Ugh (note the broken arm laying at the bottom of the enclosure). I’m new to TZ and heard I don’t want clock problems but this one seems pretty minor. Superglue? Or does somebody make those hands?

4E594977-5182-4104-9A78-6681522E28F9 (resized).jpeg4E594977-5182-4104-9A78-6681522E28F9 (resized).jpeg
#9380 3 years ago
Quoted from RobbyIRL5:

Ugh (note the broken arm laying at the bottom of the enclosure). I’m new to TZ and heard I don’t want clock problems but this one seems pretty minor. Superglue? Or does somebody make those hands?
[quoted image]

How on earth did that happen?!

#9381 3 years ago
Quoted from RobbyIRL5:

Ugh (note the broken arm laying at the bottom of the enclosure). I’m new to TZ and heard I don’t want clock problems but this one seems pretty minor. Superglue? Or does somebody make those hands?
[quoted image]

I would think superglue (or any decent glue) would work fine.

#9382 3 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

I would think superglue (or any decent glue) would work fine.

Superglue leaves a white residue. Don’t ask me how I know...

I’d use epoxy.

#9383 3 years ago
Quoted from RobbyIRL5:

Ugh (note the broken arm laying at the bottom of the enclosure). I’m new to TZ and heard I don’t want clock problems but this one seems pretty minor. Superglue? Or does somebody make those hands?
[quoted image]

Marco has it pretty cheap...

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/03-8837

#9384 3 years ago

I'd buy the new one. And don't forget to go into test and get the clock to 12 o clock before you take it apart so it's easier to replace in it's proper position.

#9385 3 years ago

It appears the opto is misaligned and minute hand got caught on the opto and snapped off. Don't loose the pin laying there with the broken hand. I recall the pin goes through the shaft and minute hand goes over pin to line up the hand, and the hand normally holds it from sliding out (unless the hand gets broke in half).

#9386 3 years ago
Quoted from yzfguy:

I'd buy the new one. And don't forget to go into test and get the clock to 12 o clock before you take it apart so it's easier to replace in it's proper position.

What he said.

#9387 3 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

Anyone still make this clock target mod?[quoted image]

I just bought a nice one that lights up from the pinside marketplace. It looks really good, can't wait to install it

#9388 3 years ago
Quoted from Neal_W:

It appears the opto is misaligned and minute hand got caught on the opto and snapped off. Don't loose the pin laying there with the broken hand. I recall the pin goes through the shaft and minute hand goes over pin to line up the hand, and the hand normally holds it from sliding out (unless the hand gets broke in half).

Somehow that metal pin was bent at about a 10-15 degree angle near one end. Weird. using super glue for now (being impatient), ordered new part.

thanks all

#9389 3 years ago
Quoted from RobbyIRL5:

Somehow that metal pin was bent at about a 10-15 degree angle near one end. Weird. using super glue for now (being impatient), ordered new part.
thanks all

Busted off again on the 9 o'clock opto. Is the position of the optos adjustable on the clock PCB?

#9390 3 years ago
Quoted from RobbyIRL5:

Busted off again on the 9 o'clock opto. Is the position of the optos adjustable on the clock PCB?

Not supposed to be. My guess is an opto is bent and the flap on the hand hits one of the optos and the hand loses.

#9391 3 years ago

Found another oddity.

When launching a ball (or not I guess technically but that is the most likely case when it happens). Hit any of the skill shots (red/orange/yellow) switches. Then hold up the ball and 4 seconds later the slot coil fires twice. This will happen mid-ball as well.

If the ball gets to the rocket (it normally would in < 4sec) the slot coil doesn't fire at all. If the ball goes in the slot the slot fires normally. Slot is only acting up in this situation.

Skill shots & slot don't appear to be on the same row/col in the switch matrix. Not sure where to start.

Two other things on my list that I haven't looked at yet. (may or may not be related)
1) diverter (on ramp before the power field) flips twice sometimes. (when the ball is there) Flip to clear ball, then flip again 1-2sec later.
2) left sling during play will fire. Usually when other things around there are banging. (my guess but haven't checked yet is the switch gap may be too small and vibration is causing it)

#9392 3 years ago
Quoted from bikefreak:

Found another oddity.
When launching a ball (or not I guess technically but that is the most likely case when it happens). Hit any of the skill shots (red/orange/yellow) switches. Then hold up the ball and 4 seconds later the slot coil fires twice. This will happen mid-ball as well.
If the ball gets to the rocket (it normally would in < 4sec) the slot coil doesn't fire at all. If the ball goes in the slot the slot fires normally. Slot is only acting up in this situation.
Skill shots & slot don't appear to be on the same row/col in the switch matrix. Not sure where to start.
Two other things on my list that I haven't looked at yet. (may or may not be related)
1) diverter (on ramp before the power field) flips twice sometimes. (when the ball is there) Flip to clear ball, then flip again 1-2sec later.
2) left sling during play will fire. Usually when other things around there are banging. (my guess but haven't checked yet is the switch gap may be too small and vibration is causing it)

For as long as I’ve had my machine, there is a random “double fire” of a solenoid somewhere in the game. I’ve never figured it out. The slot would make sense, as it’s not a mechanism that i can see. But I couldn’t prove it was the slot machine popper.

I’ll be interested to hear if others see this problem too.

#9393 3 years ago

I also have this double firing solonoid going on for years. I also believe it's the slot machine. Have not bothered to diagnose it since it doesn't cause any game play issues.
I was thinking of maybe sticking a vid cam in the game and seeing if I could confirm it's the slot.

#9394 3 years ago
Quoted from marspinball:

I also have this double firing solonoid going on for years. I also believe it's the slot machine. Have not bothered to diagnose it since it doesn't cause any game play issues.
I was thinking of maybe sticking a vid cam in the game and seeing if I could confirm it's the slot.

Glad to hear this isn’t just me. For the past 20 years of owning the game, I always assumed mine had some elusive, nagging hardware issue. Wonder if Soren would be willing to look at the code and confirm what sequence makes it happen. I swear mine is totally random, but it may be tied to the skill shot and I just never tied the two together in my head.

How many others would scramble on the first fire to look at things like the auto-plunger, ball return, etc. to try and determine which coil was firing? I like the idea of a camera to capture it happening.

Odd though, wonder why they’d program it to happen...

#9395 3 years ago

The slot double fires if skill shot is made but not rocket switch is hit. If you skill and the ball goes in the playfield without being rocket-launched, the software fears that the ball went to the slot machine via skill scoop, then positioned not to hit the slot switch. In case, slot fires to clean the scoop. No need soren to fix anything

#9396 3 years ago

I wasn’t asking for any software fixes, it was more just to understand why it happens.

I hold the W/B software in high regard. However, there are some things like this that leave me scratching my head. Why not just wait for the normal ball search?

Anyhow, glad to have an understanding. It’s literally bugged me for two decades.

#9397 3 years ago
Quoted from bikefreak:

Not supposed to be. My guess is an opto is bent and the flap on the hand hits one of the optos and the hand loses.

While waiting for my new clock hand I super glued again, and free spun it around to figure out where it was hitting. The tolerance was too tight, minute hand (part that goes through optos) and the backplate, was catching when crossing the 9 o’clock. Knowing that I had a new minute hand coming, clipped the piece going through the optos a little shorter and works like new now (a little ugly after a couple super glue attempts!).

#9398 3 years ago

Hi guys, new to the club!

Picked up TZ yesterday.
Only way to get it out of basement was to REMOVE the head. There had been some construction after it went in there.

I have everything connected except J116 and J118. They look the same and both send +12v to optos.
J116 goes to cabinet optos and J118 goes to custom opto sw 10 pcb. What is the custom opto pcb and where is it? Based on the drawings it looks like the plugs would be interchangeable. Both have the ground and are pinned the same. The cabinet optos do not show a ground but both plugs send a ground out.
I would appreciate any help. I am sure i can follow the wires to see which is which if no one here knows.
TIA
Cliff

#9399 3 years ago
Quoted from Alby87:

The slot double fires if skill shot is made but not rocket switch is hit. If you skill and the ball goes in the playfield without being rocket-launched, the software fears that the ball went to the slot machine via skill scoop, then positioned not to hit the slot switch. In case, slot fires to clean the scoop. No need soren to fix anything

Thanks everyone. Awesome that the fix is to do nothing. I found it because my rocket switch wasn't closing with the ball. Then fire fire goes the slot.

So, new question, should the diverter to the mini pf dump twice? Always? If sometimes, then when vs when not?

#9400 3 years ago
Quoted from PinJim:

Why not just wait for the normal ball search?

Because, for money.

These games were made for a COMMERCIAL environment. That is, hey were made to MAKE MONEY. In case the slot machine scoop switch was bad, every time the ball would end up in the slot machine, the user would have to wait for the ball-search to start before getting the ball served back to them. They would get pissed off really quickly - every shot to Dead End, Camera, defeating The Power, Skillshot, and Piano. They would have to wait. And likely either walk away, or tell their friends not to play it.

There's no reason NOT to fire it if we know the ball is going to end up in the slot machine. (Like.. all those shots I just mentioned above.) This way, at least, the only time the player really has to wait is when they shoot the ball into the slot machine. ... As opposed.. every OTHER time.

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