Ok

no need to be rude

Wasn't trying to be rude, sorry, not sure how to respond to your post. You suggest an above and beyond fix to something that you acknowledge isn't really even a problem

I think Rdoyle1978 is talking about heat around bulbs: below inserts, plastics, next to playfield.
I like the brightness of led's;
I don't like ghosting;
I don't like harsh on/off.
That's why led's only with OCD board - for me.
The best non-ghosting hyper-super led with capacitor is far away from OCD results.

Okay, let's break this down.
First off, you never previously mentioned MODs. So take those out of the argument. The MODs also don't run on the lamp matrix (for the most part. The ones that DO are LEDs, so they fall under the example below.)

Let's assume that the game feeds the required, 6.3v to each lamp socket, and isn't pulsed. (They are pulsed, with the zero-crossing.) Each #44 bulb takes .25amp at 6.3V. Now, for LEDs, unless you're running the brightest, multi-LED (multi-die) bulb you can, you are nowhere near 250mA. (The ones I'm using in my game draw 1/3rd of that - 100mA) So, just on controlled lamps alone, all 64 on would be 19.2A draw total. (Again, with each transistor handling it's own load, and the zero-crossing, we don't see the game draw this much..) For all of my LEDs, you're looking at 6.4A. Whopee, amerage saved, less load on transistors.

Now, don't forget about inrush current - incandescent bulbs draw MORE amps the colder they are, so going from off to on draws more current. (In fact, it is WHY the lamps are switched on and off on the zero-crossing, to stop a lamp from being switched on while the AC wave is at its peak.) And like Rdoyle1978 mentioned - heat. Have you seen scortchmarkes around GI bulbs? Heard of Insert Lifting? Or the white lightbox panel in the backbox streaked with brown marks? ..Yeah, that's heat. Hell - welcome to the *initial* issue with these TZ - the clock board, and the GI incandescent bulbs frying optos.

Now, let's jump to your "the coils draw more!" coment.
True - they do! But they're also NOT CONTROLLED BY THE LIGHT MATRIX. The have beefier transistors to power them than the lamp matrix does. This argument is like saying that a plan could get me to China faster than a boat. Well, no sh*t - they're two completely different modes of transportation.

Each part of the game - coils, flashers, +5V logic, controlled lamps, and GI lamps - have their own, separate power sources - up until the transformer. So, in the hopes that overloading one won't kill another. (Unless, you know, you short them together. D'oh.)

So, no. Noone can *say* that LEDs prevented an issue (you can't prove something *didn't* happen because of something else), it has a definite advantages to keep things working better, cooler, and longer.

Because you put LEDs in does NOT mean you don't pay attention to other things. LEDs don't cure shorted coils, bad diodes, worn flipper links, or poor playing overall. They DO help prevent mistakes (unscrewing the far back-left GI socket because the bulb blew, and accidently shoring the GI string against the Gumball Geneva switch! Whoops, there goes your ULN2083!), but issues can still happen. Even a LED flasher won't stop a failing transistor from locking on. It WILL stop the flasher bulb from overheating and melting the plastic over the upper-right flipper, though.

I'm just trying to provide alternatives to using LEDs, which I think a lot of people think are a necessary evil.

Yeah, I get all that.. obviously less current = less heat, etc. and I get that coils are on a different circuit but really thats likely going to cause the board to fail long before GI. That doesn't really guarantee any longer life when you're dealing with already failing hardware, and honestly I'd rather just have a component flat out fail then waste hours of my day creating weird behavior. What I'm trying to say is that it's not likely to make any noticeable difference, this is a lot of shop talk and over analyzing. Electronics 25y old are doomed to failure regardless, and certain components need to be replaced. It doesn't make much sense trying to prolong the inevitable (IMO) by using LEDs that a lot of people hate anyway. That is all.

Absolutely lower power consumption with LED's. Consider the GI lighting - look at the connectors that have had years of abuse due to excessive current. That "charring" would be non-existent with LED's in place of incandescent.

I have six pins on one 20 amp circuit with room for at least two more, BECAUSE I had replaced all incandescent bulbs on all the machines with LED's.

In fact, EVERY light in my game room is LED converted. Power consumption is minimal by comparison.

Leds make all the difference to me. Games are so much more enjoyable better lit with richer colors in inserts. I am in the middle of adding leds to my game. I'm also lighting star posts and adding spotlighs. Going to be awesome. I keep hearing how TZ really needs the ocd board. I have all the inserts currently led and they look fine to me. I have the home rom so maybe that helps. Is there a big benefit to getting the ocd board? I don't mind my other games with dimming turned off. TZ seems no different. If you get the ocd board do you need the one for gi, too?

No, you asked why, originally:

People answered, and you started arguing about it.

Regardless -

Actually, no. The GI will overheat and melt the headers and pins on the power drive board before.
Ref: http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#General_Illumination_Problems

Specifically these images:
- http://pinwiki.com/wiki/images/thumb/f/ff/WMS_WPC_Burnt_GI_Typical.JPG/200px-WMS_WPC_Burnt_GI_Typical.JPG
- http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:BurnedJ120-121Rwmoved.jpg
- http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:BurnedJ120-121.jpg

That happens long before you lose a transistor or explode a cap (because of old age. I'm not counting technician errors here) and is because the lamps are drawing too much current.

Not arguing at all, I just think it’s much ado about nothing. If people were really serious about saving their boards, they wouldn’t need to have all ten running all day long; you can’t play ten at a time. There are more important things to worry about. Sure if you’re running an arcade, LEDs give you a lot of power savings when multiplied. And if you like LEDs, go for it. But much of what you’re apparently arguing about (and you’re the only one among the two of us who is arguing) is overrated.

You'll find much less connector-terminal aging, discoloration, and heat-related problems on the latest version of pinball machines. LED's play a significant role in longevity of the recent technology. Simple physics here.

Your 90's pins have already been thru the aging process. LED's slow the further aging in a big way.

Now, if some new technology could produce more efficient magnetic solenoids and coils, that would be mah-vellis. Imagine future pinball machines being powered by a simple wall-wart transformer.....

Honestly I could care less about my boards (not really... but in this context).

Every game I have ever owned has had burnt up GI headers and connectors. I think at least some of that is due to poor connectivity in the connectors that were used increasing the resistance at the connector (more resistance = more heat). With any sign of such heat damage I replace lighting headers with new pins and trifuricon connectors to get the best connection I can.

For me the heat is more about saving plastics and on older games saving backglass paint. I don’t know how many plastics I have had to repair or replace, not because they were broken by a ball but because they were melted by incandescent bulbs. I have also had to remove, flatten, and re-install every single insert in multiple games? Why? The heat from the incandescent bulbs melted them just enough that the center started to droop (cupping). I have even seen a game with inserts completely burned through.

So heat isn’t all about protection for my boards... those are easy to fix. If something happens I’m back up and playing the same night. It’s about protecting the artwork and the game itself... those things are much more expensive and time considering to repair.

You are thinking total power in the game. The issue with GI is that particular subsystem was strained in the original design. So reducing load on those loops alone has material impact on the game. You reduce the heat and resistance issues that happen on the GI connectors on the board. You also lower heat output which for games left on for extended periods is a real benefit. Hotter components tend to run with more resistance... which in turn generates more heat... and the cycle builds.

Plus, if you use the correct bulbs - you get an oem look with a fresh, brighter look.

Totally facinating, I knew they were pulsed but didn’t realize that they had designed it to correlate with thr AC curve, makes sense though, especially how you explained it.

This also explains a few things for me on some of the decisions with boards for new game systems designed to work with LEDs

I own a company that specializes in automotive engine-bay wiring, using OEM spec connectors. We use a huge variety of different connectors, seals and terminals, and miles of automotive wiring on a daily basis. Every connector allowed to be used by the automotive industry has a spec attached to it and every spec has to be considered when designing a particular connector for a particular application. We build around 16,000 wiring harnesses per month of varying complexity.

There is a physical characteristic for ALL connectors that is called a "Temperature De-rating Curve" that especially relates to our pinball machines. The unsealed Molex connectors that are customarily used on our pins are generally, and always have been, at the bottom of the desirability for commercial or industrial use, since the terminal design is simplistic and resistance factors are sort of off the chart.

The de-rating curve is consistent with temperature rise. So, the hotter the connector gets, the less current it is able to conduct, as the resistance in its connection induces heat. They sort of self-destruct as they warm up. Also, the more high-current terminations within a single connector, the higher the heat factor rises, and the higher the heat, the less current they are capable of conducting. A snowball effect that applies to every connector within the machine to some extent.

To put it in perspective, if a typical terminal connection can handle 10 amps at 25 deg.C, it would only handle 8 amps at 80 deg.C, 4 amps at 100deg.C and 2 amps at 140deg.C. Eventually the heat factor makes that terminal connection incapable of carrying any current without meltdown. Factor in that de-rating by the number of high current connections within that same connector, and you see where I'm going with this. Induced temperature along with ambient temperature play into the mix. This is exactly why we see so many connectors melted down, discolored (nylon material is one of the worst, I won't even go into that), and eventually failing.

IMPO, I would always use LED lighting whenever possible, if for no other reason, to preserve the life cycle of the machine and its components.

...Off soapbox now...

This spiral magnet on my TZ is killing me. I put it in a vise and couldn't even get the thing to loosen up. It's about 1/4 too shallow so it catches balls sometimes. Yuck.

1/4" shallow?? Thats more of a pot hole at that dimension! For mine I had to apply heat with a can torch and it freed up in a vise. Good luck and do fix that if its really that bad!

I sprayed the threads with penetrating oil and let it sit overnight. Finally got it to break the next day.

As has been stated you can Try PB Blaster (wear a mask!) and wait an hour or so , then wrench!

No offence, but are you definitely turning it the right way? I did mine up by hand when it went a bit shallow.

Is there a how-to anywhere for removing the clock from the playfield? I've got an Ingo clock board & clock housing coming soon, and it would seem to make sense to completely remove the clock from the PF so I can clean it, replace yellowed parts as necessary, etc.

I've seen photos of the clock when it's already been removed, as well as disassembly of the clock & gears themselves, but I haven't been able to find a pictorial guide, or video, that shows the process for actually removing it from the PF.

Thanks!

Posted on page 105

http://www.installationinstructions.com/103501.pdf

Well that's embarassing. Thanks

EDIT: I've got a piano mod on mine, which looks like it would obscure a screw or something. Ideally would like to be able to remove the entire clock (and piano, lights, etc) assembly from the playfield and take it inside to work on, e.g. by unplugging connectors underneath the PF rather than the two connectors from the clock board itself, as my plan is to completely disassemble it to clean & replace the innards, the gears, etc. That guide essentially talks about removing it from its secured position but leaving the motor, etc still connected underneath.

EDIT 2: I basically need instructions for how to get to the *start* of this guide - http://www.flippers.be/tz_clock.html

There is one screw holding on the base metal plate. It is located just below the (normal position for the) yellow light.
You will have to remove the 'mod' to get the clock off.
Unscrew the screw, then SLIDE the metal plate with the clock BACK (away from player, towards back ot game) to free the catch.

What he said

One screw holds the plate... accessible to the front and on top of the piano hole area. Near the piano light. The the plate slides... it's held under tabs. If you can't get to that screw... remove whatever mods you have blocking it.

Ok thanks, that makes sense. The piano was in situ when I bought the pin, fitted by the previous owner. Will have to work out how it removes without breaking it.

Not sure of others but the piano mod that came on my TZ is not fastened down. It just slides out. Same with the lights that insert into the back.

There are several different versions of the mod; many of them use double sided foam tape, others are just stuck in there and held by friction.

Thanks all, again. This is the one I've got:
http://pinballpro.net/shop/twilight-zone-piano-tz-2/

I'll just take it slow on removal

Clock question. I got my Ingo clock board today and just put it in. I followed the instructions step by step. The thing is that I believe the previous owner had the clock rotated 90 degrees. I had it at 12 o'clock when I took it apart. However, when assembling and making sure motor at bottom the hands were either at 9 or 3. I think I guessed correctly putting it back together. When you power on the game or exit menu, it goes to 6 o'clock. After a few minutes it moves around and eventually goes to the correct time. Does this sound correct? Seems like it is since it is showing the correct time.

I also got two extra sets of leds with the board - one rainbow and one cool white. I ordered it with cool white but looks like warm white was installed. Hard to tell since the clock face has warm colors. Do you get an extra set of leds or are you expected to install the ones you requested? I could just swap leds but hate to go through all that trouble for nothing.

20180124_211316 (resized).jpg

20180124_212138 (resized).jpg

Have sent you a PM.

And yes, warm-white LEDs are preinstalled, the other colors have been a gift for you. Changing to cold-white will take you one minute only.

I would just say that... Ingo sent me a few extra LEDs too! Thanks buddy!

Okay, lesson number 1 - there is NO NEED to GUESS. The manual - the manual that came with the game, not Ingo's manual - the free PDF on IPDB - has a very detailed section of instructions on how to put the clock back together.
Lesson number 2 - go into test mode. T.16 Clock Test. Verify it works there. (Or T.14 if you're not on 9.4H.) I'm off-handed guessing that either everything is okay.

I did get it back together as it is supposed to. Clock test works. It moves the clock the right direction and optos work. I guess I was more confused than anything how things got turned around.

Your setup sounds weird. When I power on TZ it goes to 12 o'clock (well, more like 11 - I need to resolve that) and then after a period of time it changes to the current time. I can't understand why yours would go to 6 o'clock on startup yet still be correct during attract mode?

I'm assuming the game using the optos to determine where the hands and how to get to the right time. If so then it might not matter how things are orientated as long as the board is installed right way up.

Can somebody share pics about recently installed Mirco TZ playfield?
I am curious about colors, details and overall look.

Thanks!

Just got my board back from repair, and I’m having a new issue.

I started a new game, and the ball just sat in the kickout. Outside of the flippers, I’m not getting any high voltage from what I can tell. No kickout, no pop bumpers, etc. I’m not sure where to start.

Any idea what I could be missing?

Check your solenoid fuses on the driver board.

Will do!

Edit to add: All fixed. Thanks for the tip my man!

Think I got my clock sorted with the new board. Anyone interested in my old original board? It looks pretty good as in not burnt up or hacked. Bottom opto is flaky and only worked occasionally in test mode. Not sure if anything else is wrong with it but other optos worked in testing. I have no use for it now but figured someone who likes keeping things original might want it.

clockbd (resized).jpg

Occasionally optos just need to be gently twisted, if the heat warps them a little bit, so the two sides line up. I just bought one and rebuilt the other, or I'd take it... the golden clock you get from the incandescent looks real nice.

Finished up shopping my TZ tonight. Still have a few things planned but done with most of it. Borrowed lots of ideas from others. I lit all star posts and upper pf lights and have them on their own dimmers. Upper pf was a challenge with all the lights. Tried several different methods to light signs. I ended up getting 2" corner braces from hardware store and bending them to fit with a light strip. Works perfect. I also have three spotlights. Spotlight by slot machine uses two head flex which does a decent job lighting up the whole back area. Used Comet matrix stuff and didn't have to solder one thing. Everything uses connectors and can easily be tweaked or removed. All new Titan rubbers both clear and blue.

Big thanks to rviguet for the tip on using small button head fasteners instead of rivets. That made things so much easier.

20180128_215519 (resized).jpg

20180128_215532 (resized).jpg

20180128_211138 (resized).jpg

I'm having a professional engineer do it as mine has arrived.

Wow a Budapest twilight zone player! We live in wondrous times when so many people from around our world can pin chat together!

What's pinball scene in hungary like Davi?

Is it worth improving the sound and if so is that done by new speakers like these...

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Williams-Twilight-Zone-and-The-Addams-Family-Speaker-Upgrade-from-Pinball-Pro/253359619487?_mwBanner=1

.... or a pinsound thingy?

Or both....

Check out this thread https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wpc-replacement-speaker-suggestions-other-than-the-kits

and this link: http://www.dziedzic.us/wpc_speaker_replacement.html

Visit Budapest, and spend 1 or 2 nights at Pinball Museum. ~200 pins, arcade machines, all set to free play.