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(Topic ID: 245924)

Twilight Zone odd behavior (Help)


By alexanr1

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 40 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by alexanr1
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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wpc89_6010_0_6011_0_6026_0 (resized).jpg
2019-02-02 14_20_45-WPC ribbon cable to reseat - Paint (resized).png

#1 1 year ago

My TZ has begun to do something odd. The flippers were flipping on their own during a game and I notice some other odd things like the speech acting up. I re-seated the MPU connectors and it kind of went away, but recently popped back up again. Anyone else ever seen this? Note: it doesn’t reset like the normal 5 volt issue.

My guess it’s either a ground issue or some sort of voltage issue to a board. Haven’t had time to do a deep troubleshoot and wanted to get the post out to see if anyone else has seen this.

#2 1 year ago

Time for new ribbon cables ?

LTG : )

#3 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

Time for new ribbon cables ?
LTG : )

This.

Likely one of the IDC connectors for the ribbon cable has started to break connection intermittently. All those boards (sound, display, fliptronics) are handled on the same cable, and if an address (or even data) line goes bad, or is in the wrong state, an address for an audio bit can get interpreted as a command to fire a flipper. And so on.

Get both new cables - the larger one and the display-only one, just so that you know they're both up to snuff. (You can, also, make your own, which is what I do, but I'm sadistic like that.)

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from Coyote:

(You can, also, make your own, which is what I do,

Now that I like.

LTG : )

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Get both new cables - the larger one and the display-only one, just so that you know they're both up to snuff. (You can, also, make your own, which is what I do, but I'm sadistic like that.)

My TZ recently had a locked on flasher above the right flipper which melted the plastic, what a stink. It turned out to be a bad ribbon cable to the 8 Driver pcb and the problem went away when I reseated it, but it came back so I decided to make my own cables too. AliExpress 10 meters x 40 pin cable for $25.50 US. Also bought a bunch of different size connectors <$10.00 for 10. Cut to length and tear off whatever number of conductors you need, stick the connector in a vice , put the cable in and have a new cable in seconds.

#6 1 year ago

That flasher is notorious for locking on.

4 months later
#7 11 months ago

I bought a new set of ribbon cables and installed them. It’s acting up as bad if not worse now. Wondering if I need to pull the boards and reflow the connectors where the ribbon cables connect to the boards. Any other troubleshooting suggestions or threads that already address this?

#8 11 months ago

Did you get the ribbon cables that have the strain relief in them like PC ribbon cables do? I find these are very troublesome as I think the male board pins do not set in deep enough into those type ribbon cables.

#9 11 months ago
#10 11 months ago

Is there an order to connect them in a way to diagnose the specific cable causing the issue?

#11 11 months ago
Quoted from Mageek:

My TZ recently had a locked on flasher above the right flipper which melted the plastic, what a stink. It turned out to be a bad ribbon cable to the 8 Driver pcb and the problem went away when I reseated it, but it came back so I decided to make my own cables too.

Ah, I have that lovely sinkhole of melted plastic that I was going to ask about today. This saved me a search/question to the forums, thank you!

#12 11 months ago

Do the new cables look like the originals, without a service loop around them for strain relief? I hadn't ordered those from Marco in a long time, so I don't recall. Sometimes, pictures are not always what you get.

So since you have flipper/sound issues, this would be the ribbon cable most suspect. Though as you remove the cable at each board connection, make sure there are no bent male board pins as well.

2019-02-02 14_20_45-WPC ribbon cable to reseat - Paint (resized).png

#13 11 months ago

They looked just like the originals except the connectors are black and not gray. I did have a bent pin prior to the posts but fixed it.

Should I pull boards and possibly reflow connectors?

3 weeks later
#14 10 months ago

Bump, still looking for any advice I can get.

Ordered new ribbon cables. Still have random actions on playfield. Clock, flippers, etc...

#15 10 months ago

Ok,When you power up the game what does it say on the screen? I know i should read the previous posts but lets start over for the moment

#16 10 months ago

Says the normal:

TESTING

50020. REV L-4

Screen then goes into normal modes. Shows high scores etc...

#17 10 months ago
Quoted from alexanr1:

Says the normal:
TESTING
50020. REV L-4
Screen then goes into normal modes. Shows high scores etc...

Ok when you start a game and start playing does it play normal then start doing odd things?

#18 10 months ago
Quoted from alexanr1:

The flippers were flipping on their own during a game

Check the flipper boards the right and left disconnect and reseat them and clean the optos

Quoted from alexanr1:

the speech acting up.

Reseat the sound roms and while your at it reseat the game rom... Since you replaced the ribbon cables go over them again to make sure you didnt miss any pins or row of pins.

#19 10 months ago

It immediately acts up, it often says check fuse F114 and F115, which I have pulled both and they are fine.

Solenoids kick everywhere randomly, the clock doesn’t set to 12 o’clock and I can sometimes get it to start a game and sometime not.

I have pulled and reseated the ribbon cables a half a dozen times. It appears to be some sort of communication issue.

My gut says to pull the boards and make sure the ribbon cable poles on th boards are all good. Other than that it’s a complete wild goose chase!

I will take any advice and suggestions.

#20 10 months ago

What does your Switch Test matrix look like?

#21 10 months ago

Try giving the ASIC a firm push.

When not seated well it results in odd behaviour, worth the try

#22 10 months ago

What is the asic?

#23 10 months ago

The door controls don’t work. (Most of the time). It’s like it’s all confuse

#24 10 months ago
Quoted from alexanr1:

The door controls don’t work. (Most of the time). It’s like it’s all confuse

Okay, then. Did you get NEW ribbon cables? (I don't remember if I read that in this thread or another.) I make my own, but many folks don't wanna deal with that.

The next step would be to disconnect (with the power off!) the Fliptronics board. Pull the ribbon cable from it. Turn game on. Does it still act up? If so,
Plug the Fliptronics board back up, and disconnect the sound board. Turn game on. Does it still act up? (Ignore the Sound Error. That's expectd since we disconnected the board.)

If you have not gotten NEW ribbon cables, order some.

#25 10 months ago

I just had some similar issues with my TZ. My game would reset after a couple of minutes at any time possible. DMD issues, sound, speech, coils, everything. This would happen during Diagnostics, while playing, attract mode, etc.

I am far from an authority on these issues. It was recommended for me to use rubbing alcohol and a toothbrush. I cleaned all of the ribbon connectors and all of the male connections on the boards as well. Then while still having alcohol in the connections, I seated and reseated multiple times to get everything nice and clean. Then I let the alcohol dry and evaporate before putting it all back together.

Holy shit! Works great! I hope that I didn't just jinx myself.

Edit: To be clear I didn't clean all male connections but only the ribbon cable ones.

#26 10 months ago
Quoted from alexanr1:

What is the asic?

wpc89_6010_0_6011_0_6026_0 (resized).jpg
#27 10 months ago
Quoted from alexanr1:

The door controls don’t work. (Most of the time). It’s like it’s all confuse

Any signs of battery corrosion on the CPU board?The first thing the corrosion attacks is the menu buttons

#28 10 months ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Okay, then. Did you get NEW ribbon cables? (I don't remember if I read that in this thread or another.) I make my own, but many folks don't wanna deal with that.
The next step would be to disconnect (with the power off!) the Fliptronics board. Pull the ribbon cable from it. Turn game on. Does it still act up? If so,
Plug the Fliptronics board back up, and disconnect the sound board. Turn game on. Does it still act up? (Ignore the Sound Error. That's expectd since we disconnected the board.)
If you have not gotten NEW ribbon cables, order some.

Yes he stated that he bought brand new cable ribbons

#29 10 months ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Yes he stated that he bought brand new cable ribbons

Okay, thanks, missed that! D'oh.

#30 10 months ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Okay, thanks, missed that! D'oh.

No problem i missed at first also..Haha

#31 10 months ago

I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts on the rubbing alcohol solution. I was leery about it and am so impressed about how well it worked. Jim used the same terminology as the op by saying that my game was confused and that the ribbon cables were not communicating correctly from board to board. He used a southern word that I cannot recall but basically said that all the "crap" needs to be cleaned off in order to get a good connection again.

A big thanks to Jim at Rottendog for picking up the phone and sharing his knowledge and tech support. I hope this works for the op as well if he tries this solution.

#32 10 months ago

Thanks everyone. I will double check battery corrosion. IPAs far a rubbing alcohol, I believe all it may be doing is creating a circuit thru the alcohol. Not sure that will long term fix anything. Willing to give it a try.....

Troubleshooting this problem seems more complicated than other issues I have had with other machines. Narrowing it down to a specific connector is what seems messy.

#33 10 months ago
Quoted from alexanr1:

Thanks everyone. I will double check battery corrosion. IPAs far a rubbing alcohol, I believe all it may be doing is creating a circuit thru the alcohol. Not sure that will long term fix anything. Willing to give it a try.....
Troubleshooting this problem seems more complicated than other issues I have had with other machines. Narrowing it down to a specific connector is what seems messy.

Alex, I have had all kinds of problems with my TZ from the locked on flasher mentioned above to everything else. Out of the 20 games in my collection TZ is probably the one game I am always fixing. I don't know if this was covered in any of the other posts but since you changed the 6 or 7 ribbon cables in this game, make sure you are not off with the pins and the connectors. I know when I changed or remove the ribbon cables, it seems like I either miss one pin or possibly a whole row when reinstalling the cables. That can cause weird things to happen if you are not dead on with the ribbon cables and the pins on the board. I have done it many times even after double checking before turning on the game. Sometimes my TZ will go into a reboot of sorts and never get to the game play. Reseating the cables usually fixes the issue. Also pull the IDC connectors on and off the playfield again to make sure you dont have a bad connection there also. I had to do that many times as well. I needed to change burnt connectors at times and change out blown fuses. I just had the left magnet stop working on my TZ. Turns out i needed to reseat the two wires coming from the magnet to the board under the playfield (Top left corner of playfield) in order to get the magnet working again. Had to punch down the wires with my punch down tool into the connector and reseat. Always something with this game it seems. Thank god I can fix my own games because this game would have cost me a fortune with repairs. Good Luck

#34 10 months ago
Quoted from Caviel:

Ah, I have that lovely sinkhole of melted plastic that I was going to ask about today. This saved me a search/question to the forums, thank you!

Had the same issue with my TZ. Had to make a new plastic since I could not find a replacement.

Blog Post :

https://pinballsupernova.wordpress.com/2019/05/21/pinball-tech-twilight-zone-right-upper-flipper-flasher-locked-on-video-repair/

Video Post :

#35 10 months ago

Its a beautiful game but it’s a beast to take care of. I brought back a 1980’s Haunted House from the dead, so I have fixed quite a few. This TZ issue with literally a parallel bus having communication issues and no simple way to trace the issue is above my pay grade. I won’t give up, but it is definitely testing my patience.

1 week later
#36 10 months ago

Who sells the new ribbon cables? I see Marco does (further up this thread) but wasn't there a pinsider who sold these as well? Want to add new ribbons to mine. Thanks

#37 10 months ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Who sells the new ribbon cables? I see Marco does (further up this thread) but wasn't there a pinsider who sold these as well? Want to add new ribbons to mine.

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/

Ed has them or can make them.

LTG : )

1 week later
#39 9 months ago
Quoted from alexanr1:

Thanks everyone. I will double check battery corrosion. IPAs far a rubbing alcohol, I believe all it may be doing is creating a circuit thru the alcohol. Not sure that will long term fix anything. Willing to give it a try.....
Troubleshooting this problem seems more complicated than other issues I have had with other machines. Narrowing it down to a specific connector is what seems messy.

The rubbing alcohol fix is still working for me over 3 weeks later. The only difference is that my attract sound went from the TZ sound to the Jackpot sound. I can live with that unless someone has a suggestion to fix.

6 months later
#40 3 months ago

Thought I would give an update to my TZ issues. I did have a chip not seated on the MPU that was causing the flakey issues. It was not the ribbon cables.

The other big issue I finally figured out was the 12V power was going out. It was a little intermittent at first but finally failed. There is a cap that is part of the 12 volt power section that appeared to leak/gas out and corroded the board where a small trace ran right between the legs of the cap. I replaced the cap the voltage regulator and repaired the trace and now the 12 volt works perfectly. No issues now for a month.

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