(Topic ID: 331293)

Twilight Zone Mini Playfield issue

By MikeBass

1 year ago


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  • 24 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by MikeBass
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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TZ3 (resized).jpg
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#1 1 year ago

Good afternoon everyone. I'm new to the forum but have gotten many good ideas and info from here.

My TZ sat in storage for 4 years and I've now finally put it in my office. It always had the usual issues with the clock and miscellaneous switches/optos but I finally decided to get it back to pristine condition. Batteries only had minor corrosion so I cleaned the terminal and installed new batteries. I replaced the clock assembly with one from Marco. Fixed that problem. Replaced the opto sensors for both the upper and lower mini playfield. Now I have a problem that I can't figure out. I'm mechanically inclined but these machines are not in my wheelhouse. When the ball enters the mini playfield, it's fine until it engages the right side kicker and it immediately triggers the playfield exit. Mini playfield magnets stop working, ball drops out the bottom and regular flippers re-engage. I've done the switch edge test. If I block the lower playfield opto, it triggers switch #76 on the display. If I press on the right side kicker, it displays #46 and #76 very quickly. I've removed the mini playfield and checked for shorting or chafed wires. All appear ok. I've traced the wiring for the kicker and the optos and found no issues. I've pulled and checked all connectors both at the opto board and the CPU board. All appear ok and are firmly pressed in with no loose pins. I've removed the CPU board and checked for corrosion or tracing. All clean. I've searched the internet with no luck finding someone experiencing the same issue.

Here's my problem. I don't know if the problem occurred from sitting in storage or if it's related to my repairs. Any help would be truly appreciated.

#2 1 year ago

The exit opto works at top of playfield?

All optos and switches work correctly in test?

#3 1 year ago

There are TWO leaf switches on both sides of the mini-playfield. If you remove the rubber, does #76 fire when BOTH switches are activated? Or only the Top or Bottom one?

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from turbo2nr:

The exit opto works at top of playfield?
All optos and switches work correctly in test?

In the switch edge test, all the switches on the mini playfield function properly except for the right side top kicker. When that one is pushed, it shows "Mini PF right (2) #46" and "Mini PF Exit #76" in a quick succession.

If I press the right side bottom, it shows #46. If I press left side, either kicker, it shows #45. It is only the one on the right side top leaf switch that is causing it to engage the PF exit.

I should note that, at startup, it does not detect any issues with the machine. There is no error report.

Quoted from Coyote:

There are TWO leaf switches on both sides of the mini-playfield. If you remove the rubber, does #76 fire when BOTH switches are activated? Or only the Top or Bottom one?

It's just the one on the side. Not the one on the bottom near the exit. That one works fine. I should have clarified that better. And, as noted above, the game shows no errors at startup.

#5 1 year ago

Could this be due to a bad diode somewhere in the system allowing power to travel the wrong direction? If so, anyone know where to locate it/them?

I'm trying not to just throw parts at it.

#6 1 year ago

I would unplug the opto from the game then test the switch. If both trigger its a board issue. If it works normal it's on the mini playfield. At least it helps narrow your search.

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from freeplay3:

I would unplug the opto from the game then test the switch. If both trigger its a board issue. If it works normal it's on the mini playfield. At least it helps narrow your search.

Thank you. I'll try that and report back.

#8 1 year ago

If I disconnect the opto from the mini-playfield and press the r/s upper kicker, it only indicates #46 (mini playfield right (2)). Thoughts?

If I disconnect the plug for the kickers, the mini playfield exit optos work as designed but the top and bottom always do indicate they are working properly whether the kickers are hooked up or not.

The problem lies only with the r/s upper kicker triggering the exit opto. But not the other way around.

Hope that makes sense.

#9 1 year ago

Good news is you can eliminate the board. Bad news is it is something touching where it shouldn't. Taking a quick look at the switch matrix and they share a common line. Weird that the rest of the switches don't trigger. Also, does the opto trigger when you push the bottom switch on the right. The upper and lower right side are the same switch.

Screenshot_20230215_234203_Drive (resized).jpgScreenshot_20230215_234203_Drive (resized).jpgScreenshot_20230215_234318_Drive (resized).jpgScreenshot_20230215_234318_Drive (resized).jpg
#10 1 year ago

The bottom right switch does NOT trigger the exit opto which is very odd. If I trigger the bottom right it only indicates 46. Top right switch is the only one acting up and triggering 76 also.

I will take a look at the wiring very closely again and let you know.

#11 1 year ago

Diode for that switch is bad/broken/backwards?

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from turbo2nr:

Diode for that switch is bad/broken/backwards?

You read my mind. In a close-up inspection (again), I noticed something I'd never noticed. That switch is wired different than the other 3 on the playfield. Maybe this is the way it's supposed to be but I thought I'd point it out. On the 3 that work properly, the wht/grn and wht/blu wires are soldered on to the bottom terminal with with the diode allowing current through to the top terminal. On the one that is not working properly (R/S upper), the wht/blu is soldered to the top terminal with the diode allowing current to the bottom terminal.

I've tested all four switch diodes with a multi meter and they all pass including the switch in question.

I've never done anything with these switches so if it's wired wrong, it had to be the previous owner or at production. What is baffling is that I never had an issue with this switch until I finally decided to replace the exit and upper optos due to error reports. Could repairing of the optos have exposed this new issue?

#13 1 year ago

Update: I've tested all 4 leaf switches on the mini-playfield and the switch in question does have a different result.

Now, please tell me if you think this test is accurate. Connected a multimeter set to check continuity and checked at both terminals on each switch. The three that are ok show no continuity with and without the switch depressed. The problem switch shows continuity with the switch depressed. Obviously, this points to this switch acting differently than the rest but I'm wondering if this is a valid way to test these because it seems sort of backwards that there would not be continuity on the good switches. I would have expected the exact opposite.

Is someone familiar with the internal operation of this type of switch?

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from MikeBass:

Update: I've tested all 4 leaf switches on the mini-playfield and the switch in question does have a different result.
Now, please tell me if you think this test is accurate. Connected a multimeter set to check continuity and checked at both terminals on each switch. The three that are ok show no continuity with and without the switch depressed. The problem switch shows continuity with the switch depressed. Obviously, this points to this switch acting differently than the rest but I'm wondering if this is a valid way to test these because it seems sort of backwards that there would not be continuity on the good switches. I would have expected the exact opposite.
Is someone familiar with the internal operation of this type of switch?

There should be three terminals.
One labeled 'C', one 'NO' and one 'NC'. (Common, Normally Open, Normally Closed)
With 'C' connected, 'NO' is open when the switch is NOT depressed. 'NC' should be closed (shorted) when the switch is NOT pressed. Press the switch, and those two should reverse.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from Coyote:

There should be three terminals.
One labeled 'C', one 'NO' and one 'NC'. (Common, Normally Open, Normally Closed)
With 'C' connected, 'NO' is open when the switch is NOT depressed. 'NC' should be closed (shorted) when the switch is NOT pressed. Press the switch, and those two should reverse.

Ok. I tested them and the 3 that function correctly test as you state. The 4th (the problem child) does not and it may have to do with the way the wiring is done on that one switch. However, I never had an issue until I replaced the exit optos. The exit never registered in the 20 years I've owned this machine so I'm wondering if the wiring being done wrong at some point became an issue once I got the exit working right.

I'm very tempted to resolder the switch the same as the others and see what happens but I'm concerned it was designed like this and I would potentially damage something that is no longer available or very expensive.

Pics are attached of all 4 switches.

TZ1 (resized).jpgTZ1 (resized).jpgTZ2 (resized).jpgTZ2 (resized).jpgTZ3 (resized).jpgTZ3 (resized).jpgTZ4 (resized).jpgTZ4 (resized).jpg
#16 1 year ago

Do you have any diodes?

They do rarely go bad.

#17 1 year ago

Is a diode wire leg touching a metal tab of switch?

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from MikeBass:

Ok. I tested them and the 3 that function correctly test as you state. The 4th (the problem child) does not and it may have to do with the way the wiring is done on that one switch. However, I never had an issue until I replaced the exit optos. The exit never registered in the 20 years I've owned this machine so I'm wondering if the wiring being done wrong at some point became an issue once I got the exit working right.
I'm very tempted to resolder the switch the same as the others and see what happens but I'm concerned it was designed like this and I would potentially damage something that is no longer available or very expensive.
Pics are attached of all 4 switches. [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Picture #1 is wrong

This has been worked on before and its just backwards. A backwards diode will stop other switches and optos from working.

The silver band on the diode goes to the Hinge side of the switch in all cases, its currently backwards. No wires go to the silver banded end of the diode on that lug.

Use the other switches as a reference, they are all correct.

The red wire stays in the center, its correctly placed

The white wire is incorrectly placed, remove it and place it on the opposite side. The side that has the non-banded end of the diode on it.

Picture 2 shows a poorly connected center wire, If should be resoldered while you have it out.

#19 1 year ago

Green. But yeah.

#20 1 year ago

Awesome, guys! Thank you! I'll rewire it over the weekend and report back.

#21 1 year ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Green. But yeah.

damn color blindness lol

thanks for taking care of me!

#22 1 year ago

you guys kill me ( in a good way ) !

Quoted from pinballinreno:

damn color blindness lol
thanks for taking care of me!

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

damn color blindness lol
thanks for taking care of me!

I figured. I was just bein' a dick.

#24 1 year ago

Guys. Thank you for your guidance. Rewiring a new switch did the trick. And to think, all these years I've owned it and that fixing the mini-playfield exit would uncover another issue. It is now wired correctly and working like a champ. Thank you to all for your help!!

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