(Topic ID: 231747)

Twilight Zone J133 problem

By bignick2184

5 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 18 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by LTG
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 5 years ago

First post here. Inherited a TZ from my in-laws when they downsized. The very little I know about pinball repair I’ve learned from lurking on this site (thanks to all!). The game was getting stuck on the reboot testing screen. After trial and error, removing J133 allowed the game to boot and play normally today. J133 is responsible for some of the lights. Based on prior posts by others on this site, I am guessing there is a short somewhere among these lights. Does that seem right? Game played normally for an hour with the J133 plug out, since it’s not key to game play. Then the game froze and the flippers are all stuck in the up position. For some reason those solenoids are stuck on? Any thoughts?

#2 5 years ago

Should mention I reseated the ROM when the game wouldn’t boot (not the issue), and checked the ribbon connections. The latter might be original so I could try replacing them.

#3 5 years ago

Welcome to pinside! sorry to hear about the issues your having.

Starting a thread is a great start. I would also post a note (with a link to this thread) over in the TZ owners thread here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twilight-zone-owners-club

For the J133 issue, I would just follow the wires and see if something is loose/shorted/etc. You can search J133 in the manual to see the schematic: https://www.ipdb.org/files/2684/Bally_1993_Twilight_Zone_Operations_Manual_OCR_searchable.pdf

For the flippers being stuck up, does it happen as soon as you power up the machine? Makes me think transistor, but others who are more knowledgeable than myself will chime in I'm sure. Link to another thread with similar issues: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/helpflipper-stuck-up

#4 5 years ago
Quoted from bignick2184:

Then the game froze and the flippers are all stuck in the up position. For some reason those solenoids are stuck on? Any thoughts?

Lost power to the flipper button opto boards.

LTG : )

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Lost power to the flipper button opto boards.
LTG : )

What do you think would cause the power loss? Thank you both for your help. It seems to be some variation of the reset problem. Flippers lock up and then the game resets or freezes.

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from bignick2184:

What do you think would cause the power loss?

Blown fuse, bad bridge rectifier for opto power. Long shot bad ribbon cables.

LTG : )

#7 5 years ago

Start with the obvious. Check all the fuses and see if any are blown. If not, like LTG mentioned, check for power to the flipper opto boards:

http://www.coinoperatorshop.com/media/products/manual/pinball/Bally_1993_Twilight_Zone_Manual-gb.pdf

Page 3-25 has the details on how power/connections gets to those boards. J905 on the Fliptronic board and J116 on the power driver board.

Check that first and let us know what you find.

#8 5 years ago

It seems I have a power issue causing resets. The game would boot and play normally for a few minutes, then reset. I followed some of the troubleshooting steps on pinwiki, and removed the power driver board to inspect the soldering. I found a few joints that looked suspect, and added fresh solder. I’m not great at soldering but was careful not to bridge anything. When I reinstalled the board, the game boots but the flipper buttons don’t work. The solenoids will fire all four flippers, but two of them don’t work on the hold test (opposite sides, one upper and one lower). So this would seem to be some problem with the optos? Pretty sure I got my connectors right. Missed one initially and it was causing the fuse 114/115 J112 opto 12v supply error. That went away after plugging in the missed connector. I don’t know how to work the switch test for optos. Don’t believe they failed together at the same time. Replaced ribbon cables earlier today but I believe flippers were working after that.

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from bignick2184:

So this would seem to be some problem with the optos?

All the connectors in the right spots ? Facing the right way ? Ribbon cables red stripe pin one each end ? Not off by a row.

If it was okay minus the resets, it's a connector issue or your soldering stuff.

Optos - go to Tests - Switch Edge - pass something between them and see if they register on the DMD as a switch hit. Check the 12 volt test point on the driver board.

LTG : )

#10 5 years ago

Had a couple ribbons oriented the wrong way. Hoped that would fix the issue, but am getting the fuse 114/115 J112 12v opto error again. Fuses appear fine. Tested the right ramp opto and it’s not working either. So I tested the TPs on the power board. The 5v is 4.93 (close enough?). The 12v is well under, at around 11v. This would explain optos not working, right? The regular switches are working but not the optos. I didn’t test the TPs voltage before taking the power board off and reflowing some of the solder, so I can’t say if I did something to lower the voltage. But the machine was resetting constantly when using two flippers, so I think there was already an underlying power problem. Probably a capacitor/bridge issue on the power board?

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from bignick2184:

Had a couple ribbons oriented the wrong way. Hoped that would fix the issue, but am getting the fuse 114/115 J112 12v opto error again. Fuses appear fine. Tested the right ramp opto and it’s not working either. So I tested the TPs on the power board. The 5v is 4.93 (close enough?). The 12v is well under, at around 11v. This would explain optos not working, right? The regular switches are working but not the optos. I didn’t test the TPs voltage before taking the power board off and reflowing some of the solder, so I can’t say if I did something to lower the voltage. But the machine was resetting constantly when using two flippers, so I think there was already an underlying power problem. Probably a capacitor/bridge issue on the power board?

11 would seem way too low.. 4.9 is fine

#12 5 years ago

Went through the test points. TP8 and TP3 are both under voltage. The wall outlet is providing the right voltage. The rest of the test points appear correct to me (results posted below). TP8 (18v) and TP3 (12v) enter the power board via J101. TP8 is upstream from TP3 on the same circuit. So it seems some problem occurs between TP8 and J101 (are there components between?), or with J101 itself. Any ideas? Should I try to replace J101?
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/images/c/c0/WPC089_power_summary.pdf

Tp 3 10.5 volts (should be 12)

Tp 2 4.95 v (within specs)

Tp 7. 22.6v (20v unregulated, flash lamps)

Tp 6. 77v (50v nominal, normal and coils are working)

Tp 8 13v Low (should be 18v, lamp matrix lamps)

Tp 1 14.7 (unregulated 12v)

D1 12.5v (18v)

F114 5.5v

F115 10.5v

D2 11.9v

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from bignick2184:

So it seems some problem occurs between TP8 and J101 (are there components between?), or with J101 itself. Any ideas? Should I try to replace J101?

Yes...BR1, C7, C6, F114 and fuse holder

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Yes...BR1, C7, C6, F114 and fuse holder
[quoted image]

This is really helpful, thank you!

1 year later
#15 3 years ago

Hi guys, the saga continues. Test points showed my power was all wrong (described above). Appeared to need a rebuild. Decided to put a new RottenDog power board in it, and once installed, my 50v nominal went from 77 volts to 1.6 volts. My 20v went to 0.1. Is the board defective? What would cause this? Below, my readings from the original board are on the left. New reading with Rottendog on right. I sent a note to Rottendog on Tuesday but no response so far.

Tp 1 14.7 (unregulated 12v)/ Rottendog 14.2 GOOD
Tp 2 4.95 v (within specs)/ RottenDog 5 GOOD
Tp 3 10.5 volts (should be 12)/ RottenDog 11.9 GOOD
Tp 6. 77v (50v nominal) / Ronttendog 1.6 BAD
Tp 7. 22.6v (20v unregulated) /Rottendog 0.1 BAD
Tp 8 13v Low (should be 18v) / Rottendog 16v GOOD OR BAD?
D1 12.5v (should be 18v) NOT SURE ROTTENDOG HAS THIS?

#16 3 years ago

I'd measure the inputs to the driver board. Make sure they are good.

LTG : )

#17 3 years ago

I’m mortified to post this but... looked down and realized my door was open, thus cutting power to the 50v. Ayyyyy. I am a noob. Game working!!!!

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from bignick2184:

I’m mortified to post this but... looked down and realized my door was open, thus cutting power to the 50v. Ayyyyy. I am a noob. Game working!!!!

That would have fooled many.

First TZ's didn't have a high power interlock switch. Middle TZ's had it but not wired in. Later TZ's had high power interlock switch and it was wired in.

So as far as TZ goes, not many would have thought to suggest it.

Glad you figured it out and posted to help others.
LTG : )

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