(Topic ID: 312467)

Twilight Zone Electrical Anomalies

By Yakrobat

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 8 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Yakrobat
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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#1 2 years ago

I just got a <400 play HUO TZ that has handed me several issues despite functioning normally in situ during the pre-purchase inspection. I’m asking for help troubleshooting the below issues, all of which I'm hoping have a common cause.

- Flashlamp voltage (TP7) shows 1.2V (even when powered off for several hours), jumps to ~30V when flasher bulb #28 is plugged in.
- Flasher #28 (inside ramp flasher) remains continuously on when an LED flasher is plugged in and will remain dimly lit after turning off the machine.
- All other flash lamps function normally when flasher #28 is plugged-in and will turn off within about 10 seconds when #28 is unplugged.
- Incandescent flashers plugged into #28 do not illuminate, however they will turn on/off all other flash lamps, as described above.
- The mini-playfield magnetic flippers no longer work during game play or tests.
- Gumball geneva mechanism no longer works during game play or tests. Applying voltage to the motor lugs causes motor to spin the mechanism.

Power Driver Board Test Results:
All 6 LEDs on the board lit.
Unregulated 12V (TP1): 14.4
Regulated 5V (TP2): 4.8
Regulated 12V (TP3): 11.9
Zero-Cross 0.4V (TP4): 0.4
Coil power 70V (TP6): 77.4V (fluctuates between 69 – 89)
Flash Lamps 20V (TP7): 1.2 (30V when FL#28 plugged in)
18V (TP8): 18.1
All fuses pass continuity check.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

#2 2 years ago

Sure I had connection issues with geneva mech and other stuff that was caused by the board under the playfield, had to repunch some wires in the connector. Might have been on the opto board.

#3 2 years ago

Lostcause

Might you be thinking of the 8 High Power PCB Assembly (A-16116)? In this case, I'm fairly certain the opto board isn't the issue.

#4 2 years ago

Here are a few items to look at:

The +5V voltage only being 4.8V seems low as when the game starts playing and drawing load, this voltage will drop further. There is a lot of information on this issue. Check out PinWiki: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC

I suggest reflowing all of the connector header pins on the power driver board just to eliminate any potential cold solder joints. Look for any cold solder joints on the large filter capacitors and bridge rectifiers.

I had an opto issue on my TZ under the playfield and it ended up being a broken connector pin; it looked fine until I looked directly into the connector and saw that half the pin had broken off.

I've had problems with the ribbon cables on these older games getting flakey. I generally replace all of the ribbon cables on this vintage of games to eliminate these issues. Pinball Life sells replacement ribbon cables, just check the manual for part numbers.

Here is some music to motivate your repairs:

#5 2 years ago

Eric_S

I am familiar with issues caused by low CPU voltage and ribbon cable problems, my Judge Dredd was a prime example. In this case, the issues present as something else entirely.

Also, while I suppose header pins are worth looking at, the game is essentially new and the pins have almost none of the stress cycles seen on a typical machine. Moreover, I suspect a header pin would more likely cause intermittent functionality, as opposed to the predictable and highly anomalous behavior seen to affect the 20V accessories.

If I were to guess, I’m going to focus on the fact that TP7 is 1.2V but jumps to 30V when flasher lamp #28 is plugged in. This circuit should be closer to 20V and the circuit has commonality with many (all?) of the non-functional components. I'm just not adroit enough to know what could cause this...

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from Yakrobat:

Lostcause
Might you be thinking of the 8 High Power PCB Assembly (A-16116)? In this case, I'm fairly certain the opto board isn't the issue.

Was definitely a board under the playfield, mine is like a high end restore with new cab, playfield, boards etc but someone had used the old original wiring and have had multiple connection issues as well clock and proximity problems. Took me over a year to fix them all but all good now.

If you have another cpu board or driver board might be worth swopping and seeing what happens.
Most of my problems were connections and ribbon cables.

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from Yakrobat:

Eric_S
I am familiar with issues caused by low CPU voltage and ribbon cable problems, my Judge Dredd was a prime example. In this case, the issues present as something else entirely.
Also, while I suppose header pins are worth looking at, the game is essentially new and the pins have almost none of the stress cycles seen on a typical machine. Moreover, I suspect a header pin would more likely cause intermittent functionality, as opposed to the predictable and highly anomalous behavior seen to affect the 20V accessories.
If I were to guess, I’m going to focus on the fact that TP7 is 1.2V but jumps to 30V when flasher lamp #28 is plugged in. This circuit should be closer to 20V and the circuit has commonality with many (all?) of the non-functional components. I'm just not adroit enough to know what could cause this...

Try to isolate the 20V issue by unplugging all of the "output" connectors on the power driver board and then measure voltage. If the voltage is still low, it is probably an issue on the power driver board. If the voltage is good, then you can focus on external issues, such as items under the playfield. Most mechanisms have connectors that can be easily unplugged to further isolate and troubleshoot.

#8 2 years ago

It turns out J124 had accidently been plugged into J128 during the installation of an OCD board. Problem solved! Thanks everyone for the troubleshooting suggestions!

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