(Topic ID: 231883)

Twilight Zone DMD

By swooped

5 years ago


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  • 54 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by swooped
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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7-opto input.jpg
Switch-Matrix (resized).jpg
TZ FT2 (resized).jpg
TZ sw (resized).jpg
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IMG_20181218_152228 (resized).jpg
sw TZ.jpg
IMG_20181218_115341 (resized).jpg
testpoint.png
IMG_20181218_095338 (resized).jpg
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There are 54 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 5 years ago

Hello everyone I'm new to the form also new to working on Pinball machines sort of. I grew up with this Pinball Machine a friend of my parents was actually a engineer that worked on several of these and it is how we ended up with it. So the machine below is actually a engineer sample.

As you can see the screen has these 2 straight lines coming down. I've read through enough posts at this point that I felt I would start reaching out for other ideas. I have checked and replaced all the ribbon cables inside the game with new ones and the same issue still occurs. Any help is appreciated I want to get this bad boy up and running like new. Appreciate any ideas.

I don't at this time have another working DMD laying around that I can test with it so I will have to forgo that step.

IMG_20181211_142107 (resized).jpgIMG_20181211_142107 (resized).jpg
#2 5 years ago

Congrats on getting this game. Well, does the game go into attract mode and you can play a game?

#3 5 years ago

I've seen that sometimes when the display ribbon cable is backwards at one end. Are you sure the red line is at pin one on both sides?

#4 5 years ago

There is a good point. Can you post a picture of the boards?

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Can you post a picture of the boards?

Look here - https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2684&picno=26192

Check the long thin ribbon cable running from the DMD to the DMD driver board. One side has a red stripe, that needs to be on pin one ( marked on the circuit board ) both ends.

LTG : )

#6 5 years ago

Thank you for your replies. I double and triple checked the long Ribbon Cable that runs from the DMD to the DMD driver board. See picture attached.

IMG_20181218_072958 (resized).jpgIMG_20181218_072958 (resized).jpgIMG_20181218_073017 (resized).jpgIMG_20181218_073017 (resized).jpg
#7 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Well, does the game go into attract mode and you can play a game?

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from swooped:

Thank you for your replies. I double and triple checked the long Ribbon Cable that runs from the DMD to the DMD driver board. See picture attached. [quoted image][quoted image]

What does it look like on the end plugged into the display?

#9 5 years ago

So the short answer I don't think so.

Long answer; when I turn the machine on it boots up makes the normal start sound and then all the lights are flashing however I cannot start a game. I guess I should have pointed out that my parents had a professional look at it but he did not have enough time before he started working on it the display worked just fine. The reason we had him working on it is because I had reached under the play field because the Extra ball button had popped out and yes we all need our extra balls and when I did that I think I shorted something. We kept getting message check Fuses F114 and F115. We checked the fuses etc and he thought he had narrowed it down to the MPU board he replaced some things on the MPU board I'm not sure what exactly I could call him to find out. He was a really nice guy and seemed to know what he was doing but just said he was really busy and did not have the time to look at it right now. Which I completely understood. He did think the opto board might be the main issue so I had ordered a new set of opto boards. However the boards I ordered are 10 switch opto's and the board in the game are 7 switch. I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty and get this machine fixed I love the machine and the game.

The last time he came back with the MPU board is when the display started acting up he did man handle the unit a little not sure how fragile these things are.

I should add I can get into the test mode(can't see it on screen but I hear it), Also I can add credits too.

#10 5 years ago

Can you check the red tracer on the ribbon cable from J204 to the small 8-driver.
I think that the ribbon's red tracer is on pin 26 on the CPU-board and pin 1 on the 8-drv.

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

Can you check the red tracer on the ribbon cable from J204 to the small 8-driver.
I think that the ribbon's red tracer is on pin 26 on the CPU-board and pin 1 on the 8-drv.

You were correct I switched this around didn't help display issue.

Quoted from zacaj:

What does it look like on the end plugged into the display?

Picture below of this I have tried flipping that cable 100 times to sunday just to make sure that wasn't the issue. I honestly think it is something either on the MPU board or the DMD controller.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Congrats on getting this game. Well, does the game go into attract mode and you can play a game?

It does go into attract mode but then begins searching for balls (There is 3 in the loader and 2 in the gumball) and it eventually will pop one out of the spot into the auto fire slot. However the auto fire does not fire the ball then. Which is why I think the opto boards are bad. I should point out if i restart the game power off and on it does fire the auto fire slot when searching for balls. I don't think this is related to the display issue. But I am a novice.

IMG_20181218_095338 (resized).jpgIMG_20181218_095338 (resized).jpg
#12 5 years ago

Is 12 Volt unregulated present on testpoint TP1 ? Does clock rotate on powerup ? Is LED lit on 10-optoboard under playfiled ?

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

Is 12 Volt unregulated present on testpoint TP1 ? Does clock rotate on powerup ? Is LED lit on 10-optoboard under playfiled ?

Clock does not rotate on powerup. I ran out real quick and will check TP1 with multi meter not sure where that is located though any advice. I will also check the 2 7-opto boards. I do not have a 10-optoboard.

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from swooped:

not sure where that is located though any advice.

It is on the upper left corner of the powerdriverboard. Check Fuse F116 and LED 7 as well.

testpoint.pngtestpoint.png

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from swooped:

(There is 3 in the loader and 2 in the gumball)

Where is the power ball?
Need 5 steel and 1 ceramic.

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

It is on the upper left corner of the powerdriverboard. Check Fuse F116 and LED 7 as well.
[quoted image]

It was a blown fuse on F116 thank you so much for your help. So happy to see that beautiful screen even if there is a error.

Not sure if I should start a new topic or just continue see attached screenshot this is my original problem when I received the machine. I checked F115 and F116 already to see if they were good and they are just fine.
IMG_20181218_115341 (resized).jpgIMG_20181218_115341 (resized).jpg

#17 5 years ago

Nice !

No need to start a new topic. Let's continue with the 12 Volt regulated.
LED 1 is just next to the short ribboncable and is not visible on the photo. Is it lit ? Or, is there 12Volt on fuse F115 ?

#18 5 years ago

LED 1 is Lit getting solid 11.99v which is good enough I would assume on F115.

#19 5 years ago

Check your connectors bottom side left edge of the huge driver board.

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Check_Fuses_F115_and_F116_Message

Maybe you got lucky and one came off. Or loose wire in one.

LTG : )

#20 5 years ago

I don't think I'm lucky. Gave that a shot same message. I was thinking originally I may have to go through this testing but I'm almost 100% positive it is the Opto boards just because all other switches seem to work but the OPTO sensors. I know I have good power coming to the opto's as well.

#21 5 years ago

If you can get into the test, the 12Vregulated is OK

If the clock (still) doesn't rotate during startup, the 12 Vunreg. is probably not reaching the motordriverboard.( check J116/117/118)
Is it possible to test the clock in testmenu and see if motor runs and optos work ?

If the 2x 7-optoboards have a lit LED and have power to the optos, there must be 12Vunreg present under the playfield.

edit:
@swooped, thank you for the donation and making my grey hart red again

#22 5 years ago

The clock now rotates during startup it also works in the test menu. I get nothing in test menu from the optos. Just to reconfirm the 2 x 7 -optoboards have a lit LED.

#23 5 years ago

So, does the clock calibrate and stops at 12:00/0:00h, or does it keep running and stops at random position ?

It would be a coincidence that all optos are dead. Maybe if there was a short between 12Vunr and other powersource it blew all optocircuits.
The fuse was blown after all.

If you can reach any smal opto receiver board (blue pcb with dark photocell) with 'c' and 'e' marking on it, can you short 'c' with 'e' during switch-test and see if they register ? Possible the one on the miniplayfield is easy to access.

#24 5 years ago

Clock does calibrate and stop at 12:00/0:00h. I have shorted a couple of them and nothing came up in the switch-test. I should add this problem started when I stuck my hand under the play field to grab something and bumped one of the solenoids my guess causing a short on the 12Vunr.

#25 5 years ago

The clock seems ok, but not sure about the 2x 7-optoboards. I'm not completely sure how these 2 boards are wired but assume that each does one column in the switch matrix (column 7+8).

Can you check other switchs in both columns to see if the column drivers are still ok ? (4 switches in green marked area)
sw TZ.jpgsw TZ.jpg

#26 5 years ago

How sure are you that "the repair guy" fixed the CPU board. If a coil shorted to a switch wire it possibly blew one of the switch col / row driver chips , I think U18, U19, U20 on the CPU ( I've done it ). I also had the check F115 and F116 errors and it turned out to be U14 and U20 was also blown.

Maybe post a picture of the switch matrix display in Switch Test, it will show what switches it thinks are open/closed. There's a lot of info out there on how to go about troubleshooting the switch matrix.

http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wpc/index2.htm#switch

#27 5 years ago

Other switches in those columns are operating normally. I think it is the Opto boards

#28 5 years ago
Quoted from swooped:

Other switches in those columns are operating normally. I think it is the Opto boards

You can swap the 2 Opto boards to see if things move , I am pretty skeptical however. As in my problem above I also changed the Opto board but no change.

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from Mageek:

How sure are you that "the repair guy" fixed the CPU board. If a coil shorted to a switch wire it possibly blew one of the switch col / row driver chips , I think U13, U14, U20 on the CPU ( I've done it ). Maybe post a picture of the switch matrix display in Switch Test, it will show what switches it thinks are open/closed.

Well I'm not 100% certain he kind of gave up. See picture of switch matrix.

Edit: I should add I know he added a standoff and put a new ULN2803 on the board.

IMG_20181218_152228 (resized).jpgIMG_20181218_152228 (resized).jpg

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from swooped:

I think it is the Opto boards

It is starting to look like it.

But better test the switch matrix first at the connector of one of the 7-opto-boards.

If you have a diode by hand, go into switch test T.1,
- leave optoboard plugged in,
- connect diode with banded side to the green wire on J3 of the optoboard.
The other end of the diode to one of the white-XX wires as in picture . (do not connect it with grey-yellow !!)

does that trigger a switch in the matrix ? If so, very likely a problem with optoboard. If not, broken wire somewhere ?
7opto board.png7opto board.png

#31 5 years ago

Unfortunately I don't have a Diode laying around however I was able to find a place nearby that has the Opto Boards in stock so I'm going to pick 2 of those up today and try to swap them in to see if that fixes the issue if not I will move to replacing U13 U14 and U20.

#32 5 years ago
Quoted from swooped:

Unfortunately I don't have a Diode laying around

I won't tell anybody if you use a wire instead of a diode. the only difference is that it can trigger more than one switch, but then you know the wiring is ok.

Quoted from swooped:

if not I will move to replacing U13 U14 and U20

I think you already tested U19 and U20.

Quoted from swooped:

Other switches in those columns are operating normally.

#33 5 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

I won't tell anybody if you use a wire instead of a diode. the only difference is that it can trigger more than one switch, but then you know the wiring is ok.

So just performed the test and all the Opto's came back on the Switch Test. So now I know the opto boards are in fact bad. I will pick up the new one today and hopefully slot them in today given time allows. Thanks again for the trouble shooting help.

One last Issue I noticed just now that the Lower Flippers (Both Left and Right) are not working during test mode. The upper flippers do work. Any ideas here?

#34 5 years ago
Quoted from swooped:

Lower Flippers (Both Left and Right) are not working during test mode.

Go into switchtest T.1 and push flipperbuttons. Besides F5,F6,F7,F8 , does it also trigger F2 and F4 ? (red circles in switch-table)

TZ sw (resized).jpgTZ sw (resized).jpg
If not, check wiring on flipperbutton optoboard and Fliptronicboard J905.

If it does trigger F2 and F4, check all 4 fuses on fliptronic board (Machine OFF and pull fuse on one side, then use multimeter continuity function)
And check/reseat ribbon cable between CPU and fliptronic board. (red circles)
TZ FT2 (resized).jpgTZ FT2 (resized).jpg

#35 5 years ago

Instantly after reading this post I thought there are 4 fuses on the fliptronics board. Bad fuse hiding behind the ribbon cable flippers work. I have a question what fuse type should be used in these boards mine have all different ones in it.

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from swooped:

I have a question what fuse type should be used in these boards mine have all different ones in it.

Page 1-47 in your manual 3 amp slow blow, all four of them.

LTG : )

#37 5 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Page 1-47 in your manual 3 amp slow blow, all four of them.
LTG : )

Thank you found the page ended up checking all the fuses to make sure the correct amps were being used. Turns out there were 10 amp fuses in 3 amp spots and 3 amp fuses in a 5 amp spot.

Just waiting for my Opto Boards should be here today and I anticipate a working Twilight Zone. Fingers Crossed.

#38 5 years ago

Swapped out the opto boards this morning only to have the same error message and no response from the opto's. Its weird though because when I jumper the wire then I get the reading in switch test. Which makes me think that the MPU is fine. Any ideas on next steps? Could it be that ALL the opto sensors themselves are no good?

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from swooped:

ALL the opto sensors themselves are no good?

That is highly unlikely

So in switch test every switch works properly except Optos? (no multiple beeps, or extra switches showing closed on the display when closing one).

You should take the time to go through this excellent switch matrix guide.
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wpc/index2.htm#switch

#40 5 years ago
Quoted from Mageek:

That is highly unlikely
So in switch test every switch works properly except Optos? (no multiple beeps, or extra switches showing closed on the display when closing one).
You should take the time to go through this excellent switch matrix guide.
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wpc/index2.htm#switch

So just to verify yes every switch works in switch test but the optos I went through them all. No weird extra beeps or extra switches show closed on the display when closing one.

In looking through the switch matrix guide I did the following step its early on in the beginning.
"These connectors may have to be removed to determine if the switch problem was on the CPU board or in the playfield wiring. (The easiest way to determine this is to disconnect all four switch matrix playfield plugs from the bottom right of the CPU board {connectors J206-J209}. If the error goes away, there is a playfield short. If the error stays, there is a problem on the CPU board.)"

Results of this were the same error message Check fuses F115 and F116, J112 and Opto 12V Supply.

If I unpluged the rest of the plugs on the bottom it gives me just Check Fuses F114 and F115.

I have checked all fuses and they are known to be working good fuses. So since the error stayed in the step does that mean there is something wrong with the cpu board I do know that U20 was replaced.

#41 5 years ago

You still do not have power to the trough or the 7 opto board under the playfield?

#42 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

You still do not have power to the trough or the 7 opto board under the playfield?

I know that the opto boards have power however I'm not sure about the ball trough how would I test that

#43 5 years ago
Quoted from swooped:

So since the error stayed in the step does that mean there is something wrong with the cpu board I do know that U20 was replaced.

Just to be sure that he did not break any traces when replacing the chip, very easy to do. I'd ohm out source and destination of each pin on U20. It could also be U14. Here is a schematic snippet.

Switch-Matrix (resized).jpgSwitch-Matrix (resized).jpg
#44 5 years ago
Quoted from swooped:

I know that the opto boards have power however I'm not sure about the ball trough how would I test that

Look at the component side of both trough boards and the big 7 opto board (underneath toward the back of the playfield) There should be a red power LED lit if they are getting power.

#45 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Look at the component side of both trough boards

Twilight Zone does not have ball trough opto boards. It's Cherry micro-switch based. There are FOUR trough switches as well as the outhole.

#46 5 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Twilight Zone does not have ball trough opto boards. It's Cherry micro-switch based. There are FOUR trough switches as well as the outhole.

Thank you. Been a long time since I had an issue with my TZ

#47 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Thank you. Been a long time since I had an issue with my TZ

It's easy to get the WPC-89 machines mixed up. A lot of changes in electrics and mechanics between introduction in 1990 to the switch to WPC-95 in 1995.

Your technical assistance posts are always helpful!

#48 5 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Your technical assistance posts are always helpful!

Thank you. You do get to the point quicker than I. I usually have to gather more info usually before I can finally get there unless it is something I see very often.

#49 5 years ago
Quoted from swooped:

Swapped out the opto boards this morning only to have the same error message and no response from the opto's. Its weird though because when I jumper the wire then I get the reading in switch test.

Quoted from swooped:

the 2 x 7 -optoboards have a lit LED.

You can test the inputs quite simple of the 7-optoboard.
-Again in switchtest T.1
-Keep J3 connected and unplug J2 on 7-optoboard.
-with a wire from J2-9, touch the other pins on J2 (see picture). Does this trigger any switch ?

7-opto input.jpg7-opto input.jpg

#50 5 years ago
Quoted from Mageek:

Just to be sure that he did not break any traces when replacing the chip, very easy to do. I'd ohm out source and destination of each pin on U20. It could also be U14. Here is a schematic snippet.[quoted image]

I Checked U20 and it is all good with the DMM going to replace u14 as well. I will report back.

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