I can't believe the outrage about this announcement. I own a TWDLE, and I couldn't care less how many versions Stern releases of this or ANY pinball machine. If the hobby continues to grow, I hope they make Vault Editions of EVERYTHING.

It has always struck me as EXTREMELY strange that there is an expectation that these machines should hold their value, or increase, and that Stern has the responsibility to carefully maintain this illusion of scarcity... In what other sector does this occur?! (I know, you can give me a few insane examples... I don't care).

Why begrudge a company for trying to sell more of the things they make??!! They have no responsibility to maintain the "value" of your collection through scarcity of their product. The only reason these things retain their value is that we're all selling them to each other!!!

I think Stern should make announcements like, "Hey Pinball fans, we're considering releasing a Vault Edition of Avatar. We're gauging interest at this point. It's a lot of work to spool up the production line to rerun a game. How many people would like a chance to buy a new Avatar VE?"

I really love pinball. I love buying machines new and old. I love fixing my machines. I love modding my machines. I love playing other peoples machines. I love going to pinball conventions. I love talking to pinball people. I LOVE the tech help I've received here on Pinside.

I hate Stern Bashing. I hate JJP Bashing. There are a LOT of really petty things said here on Pinside. I keep coming back though, because this place is overwhelmingly filled with positive people who just live and breathe pinball.

I think everybody should take a few deep breaths, and remember what's important here. We are lucky to be in this hobby, and for most of us, that's what it is. I can understand that there are some people on here for whom pinball is their livelihood, and values, pricing and the like have a different impact on them. For MOST of us though, these are just really expensive toys, that make us REALLY happy.

For the most part, I try to steer clear of all the mudslinging, and fisticuffs here on Pinside.

Merry Christmas everybody.

I hope you all get a pinball machine under your tree this year. I know I will, cause I bought it myself!

For some of you, it will be a BSD in need of a lot of attention, that will soon be blowing people's minds once you get the Mist magnet working again. For some, it will be an Iron Man VE, fast and Brutal. For some it will be a NIB ACDC Premium that your local Distributor has been holding for you. For some it will be Dutch Pinball's BoP 2.0 For some it will be a Sea Witch, beautifully restored and ready to be played again for another 30 years.

If you're reading ANY of this, it's because you LOVE Pinball. You wouldn't be here on Pinside if you didn't. Best of the Season to you all.

I'm certainly not trying to be snarky. I did my best to be positive in that post. I guess I just don't see why it matters. I bought an LE. I knew there might someday (soon) be a Premium. I HAD to know that right?? It seemed very strange that there wasn't one announced from the start.

I figured, an announcement would come if sales of the LE were strong. If you decided to buy the LE, you got an amazing pinball machine that is in fact Limited in production. If this machine is as successful as I hope it's going to be (For Pinball's sake, for Stern's Sake, For Bog's sake etc etc), then there may even be several Premium runs.

There is a lot of discussion of what is Limited and what isn't, and how some Premiums are technically more "limited"??!! The LEs are a set number. They are limited to that number. 799 is not limited??!! Maybe it's a large number in terms of pinball production... But if there is 799 of something on Earth, it's an extremely limited item.

Money is always touchy. $1500 is not small change by any stretch.

I apologize if I was a little off topic for this thread. I suppose I was responding to the more typical general outrage I often come across on Pinside, and tried to sum it up here.

I guess I'm just over the anti-Stern sentiment. They kept pinball alive, they are making incredible machines, and everybody I've met from the company is a dyed in the wool pinball freak. I truly want them to do well. Same with JJP, and Spooky, and anybody making great Pinball machines.

That would be an unfortunate position to take Ice. To what end??!

What if the next pin is announced with 3 models (or more??!). Maybe wait and see how Stern reacts to this feedback before you decide you are going to publicly campaign against Pinball's greatest hope of survival!! Haha. I jest... but only a little.

Perhaps this was a legitimate (and maybe even reasonable??!) business stance for Stern to take. Whatever the case, it's pissed a bunch of people off, and no company wants to do that to their customer base. Stern loves pinball, and they love pinballers. I don't think the company's desire was to piss anybody off.

The best result here would be for Stern to see that this rollout pissed some people off (Some LE buyers, some Pro Buyers, and lots with no skin in). Maybe that will change what they do next??

Personally, I thought it was very odd that there was no Premium at Rollout. I assumed if the pin did well, then there would be one. I had no intention of buying this pin in any configuration. I've never seen the show. I've read ALL thew comics, but never got in to the TV show. The problem was getting a chance to play it with Lyman during Expo... I got hooked! Plus, MET being a fav pin gave me a ton of confidence in a Borg/Sheats machine. I decided to pick up an LE because it was the full featured option of the 2 machines. I knew there was very likely a Premium coming down the pipe, but I liked what I saw in the LE, and pulled the trigger.

I'm personally not at all upset by how this went down, but I can see how it made some people feel deceived, or misled, and that they feel burned by that. I don't think any company wants that feeling out there.

I think it would be a mistake to make up your mind today that regardless of what pin is next and how Stern rolls it out that you will "Lobby against Stern every chance you get". Give them a chance to digest this feedback and adjust how they do things in the future.

It is entirely possible that somebody's opinion can be wrong. It can be ill-informed. It can be under-researched. It can be ridiculously biased, and simply designed to rile people or be contrary.

It's ridiculous to say, "It's an "opinion", and therefor it can't be wrong!

Parts of his "opinion" we're simply not true. It's like saying, "In my opinion the entire playfield is bright neon blue, and it hurts my eyes. Any bright blue playfield is going to be a dud. Nobody should even consider this pin because the flippers are reversed. In my opinion the entire playfield is angled the wrong way. In my opinion the machine didn't even ship with a backbox. That's just my opinion though"

I'm being a bit ridiculous here, granted, but I just despise reading such a ridiculous dismissal of what is a REALLY nice shooting pin. Ramps are smooth and fun. Inner orbit shots are challenging, and tight.

everybody is entitled to their opinion, OF COURSE. But it's also possible for some people's opinions to be wrong. In fact, they often are!!

_{Post edited by MapleSyrup: spelling}

Is there a problem with the ramps that I haven't heard about? I'm not having any issues. I had my bicycle girl ramp get stuck partially up a few times, but that's about it. I torqued the ramp a bit to the left, and it hasn't happened since.

Wow. I'll check mine out. I hadn't noticed anything thus far.