I agree 100%. The only reason the premium wasn't officially announced at launch was to increase the chances that they would sell out all the LEs. I'm not surprised at all, but I'm very disappointed in Stern. I had almost convinced myself that they were done with the premium thing, but I shouldn't have let my guard down. One thing is certain, I will NEVER pre-order another Stern as long as I live. They decided to bite the hand that feeds them, and I will not reward them for this.

As many of you may recall, I said a while back that all Stern had to do was put a little note at the bottom of the feature matrix stating "Premium model pending demand". Four simple words, and all of this anger towards them could have been completely avoided. They still would have sold out all the LEs. Instead, they chose to be deceptive, and it really could turn out to bite them in the ass. As the saying goes ... Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I'm done.

I don't think Stern necessarily made a conscious effort to "screw over hobbyists", but this situation has clearly shown that maximizing profits is more important to them than respecting their customer base.

I know you're joking, but this is actually the kind of move that a smart company would do. It wouldn't even have to be a free topper. How about giving every customer who purchased a game before the premiums were announced a $100 gift certificate good towards Stern merchandise and accessories. Given the margin on that stuff, it wouldn't cost them close to $100 per person, and it would garner a lot of good will from the community.

It's actually not a good thing. If enough people stop pre-ordering games because they feel like they have been duped, it will hurt sales. If Stern isn't selling as many games, the entire hobby could be affected in a multitude of bad ways.

You are correct. A lot of people talk a big game, but ultimately don't stand by their convictions. When I say I'm done pre-ordering Sterns, I am dead serious. I don't like being toyed with, especially when there are thousands of dollars at stake. I will officially go on record saying that if at any time in the future you see that I have pre-ordered a Stern, just remind me of this post, and I will happily send you a check for $500. The only way I will rescind this offer is if Stern officially does something to make this up to the early buyers.

That's $500 to the first person to point it out, by the way, not everyone ...

My point was that Stern could potentially be shooting themselves in the foot. If enough people are hesitant to pre-order games in the future because of this debacle, it could have serious ramifications on their ability to develop new games. They need our money for R&D and to keep the company solvent. If the well starts to dry up, Stern not only loses, but we lose as well.

Not officially. When pressed, they said it was a possibility, but this was strictly "off the record".

Sadly, a lot of companies just don't get it. Treating your customers with respect and maximizing profits don't need to be mutually exclusive. I'd argue that the best way to establish a loyal customer base is through honesty and transparency. It's tempting to go for the quick cash grab, but don't be surprised when your customers stop buying your product.

I'm not re-writing history. They never officially announced the possibility of a premium. This is a fact. And just because I'm upset doesn't mean that I am surprised. If you go back and read through some of the early TWD threads, you will see that I predicted a premium model if sales on the title were strong. Just because I predicted it doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.

For the record, my opinions on this subject are my own, and in no way reflect the opinions of Pinside as a whole.

Your TWDLE was literally the first pinball machine you ever played?

Agreed. I practically feel that way about the LE, and it only has a fish tank on the playfield.

Yep. They nailed it with ST. The LE is just absolutely stunning.

The solution is obvious. Hold on to your pro until a premium is available in the secondary market. That way, Stern doesn't get any more of your hard earned money.

It's interesting that you mention the fact that The Walking Dead is the #1 show on TV in your argument. To me, this was even more of a reason for Stern to have assumed that the game would be a hit, and less of a reason for them to have resorted to trickery in order to move the LEs.

I've been arguing that they should do this for years, and every time I bring it up, someone jumps down my throat and starts pontificating about economies of scale and all this other boring crap.

They did not really say this until many people already had non-refundable deposits in. Even then, they never made any type of official statement. There was never anything about a premium on their website or Facebook page.

I remember when you contacted them, and I remember their response. The fact remains that the customer shouldn't have to actively seek out this information. It should be right upfront for all to see. Why was Stern only forthcoming with this information when pressed? I think we all know the answer to that.

Some distributors are honest. I asked my distributor about the possibility of a premium before I ordered, and he basically said that even though no premium had been announced at that point, we all know it's a possibility. I'm generally a premium buyer, but I chose to order an LE anyway. It was a dream theme for me, and I didn't want to wait. It's my own damn fault for being so impatient, but Stern's cryptic marketing sure didn't help.

Now that the premium photos are out, I feel like kind of an idiot. The differences between the LE and the premium do not justify the extra cost. Heck, I actually like the premium cabinet and backbox art more. Not to mention the fact that the very announcement of the premium just made any attempt for me to switch models even more costly. People who say things like "This hobby isn't about the money" are completely missing the point. It stings when a game you just spent a ton of money on suddenly drops in value overnight, and it adds insult to injury when the new model that was just announced turns out to be something you like more. Show me all my options upfront. That's all I ask for.

I am a collector who couldn't care less about the plaque or the exclusivity. To me, it has always boiled down to what the game looks like, and how it plays. If the LE offers what I am looking for, and I can justify the price difference, then I will buy it. I don't begrudge Stern for cashing in on the LE's. It's smart business. If they are going to charge so much more for them, though, they need to make the LE's a compelling upgrade. When you release a premium after the fact that is arguably nicer than the LE, that's a slap in the face to the early LE buyers.

Yep. Make the LE's truly special, and folks won't be as upset if/when the premium comes out. STLE should be the archetype that all future LE's follow. It offers concrete upgrades over the premium that look great and are virtually impossible to duplicate in the after market.

Amen, brother!

The fish tank translite is cool, but it seems like an odd choice considering they want to sell as many fish tank toppers as they can. It almost forces someone who wants the fish tank topper to seek out an after market translite.

I have been one of the most outspoken TWD LE owners on this topic, and I feel that my reasons for being upset have been clearly laid out. That being said, people continue to twist my words and completely ignore the rationale behind my arguments. Because of this, I feel compelled to clear up a few things:

For starters, I am not fundamentally upset by the fact that there will be more games hitting the market with the same gameplay as my LE. In fact, quite the opposite is true. I'm thrilled that the title is a hit and that Stern will be making more of them. I love the game, and it's great that more people will be able to experience the full featured version. I didn't buy the LE because of its exclusivity. I bought it because, at the time, it was the only way I could get the game with all the features I wanted.

Secondly, I am in no way, shape or form opposed to Stern making money. I openly acknowledge that when Stern is doing well, it is good for the hobby. I also feel that they have every right to maximize profits. I just don't feel they should do it by being deceptive or taking advantage of their customers. We are the ones that enabled the company to thrive. Without our dollars, there would be no Stern. Because of this, we should be treated with respect, even if that means slightly more risk or slightly less profit for Stern.

Lastly, it is not about the money. I can't emphasize this point enough. Of course, I'm not happy about something I own instantly going down in value. Who would be? The monetary loss isn't what made me so upset, though. I knew the risks when I bought the LE. I knew there was a possibility that Stern would release a premium if the title sold well. Despite this, I went ahead and bought the LE anyway, grasping to the foolish notion that Stern wouldn't purposely mislead us. Now that the smoke has cleared and I can clearly see what their plan was all along, it's extremely frustrating. They used me, and I fell for it hook, line and sinker.

You have nothing to apologize for. You were misled just like the rest of us.

Dude, he has a friend that works at Stern, and even his friend thought a premium wasn't happening.

I have a few proposals that I think would make everyone happy in the future. For starters, the feature matrix should always include all three models, clearly listing the differences between each one. Stern should also provide photos of what each pin will look like, with a disclaimer stating that the premium model will only be made if demand warrants it. This would allow every potential customer to make a fully informed decision. When we are talking about a purchase of this magnitude, this is only fair. For people who argue that this would hurt LE sales, my response would be that Stern should make the LE upgrades compelling enough so that this isn't an issue.

Yep. It's very perplexing that some people continuously try to downplay the legitimacy of our complaints. It reminds me of the MAD Amusement threads where someone inevitably comes in and says, "Well, I think Mike is great because I always get my stuff". This type of response completely misses the point. We are supposed to be a community. When one of us gets screwed, all of us get screwed.

I have already this question countless times in this thread. I'm honestly tired of repeating myself.

My apologies. I assumed you had read the entire thread and were still confused. Here are my thoughts in a nutshell ...

From the get go, Stern has been vague about whether or not a premium version of this game would be made. Historically, the premium has been listed along with the other models in the feature matrix. This was not the case with this title, and it led to much confusion. Stern could have easily put an end to the speculation, but I believe they deliberately chose not to in order to ensure that all the LE's would sell. It's this unscrupulous tactic that I have a problem with. I have argued all along for transparency. Give the customers all the facts, and then let them decide how they want to spend their money. When you purposely hold back pertinent information in order to maximize profits, you are basically saying that money is more important than the bond of trust you have with your customers.

This is one of the few things we seem to agree on. There is no way Stern is going to abandon their current business model of selling the LE's first. It's been too darn profitable for them.

Am I the only one who was surprised to see that the premium has the fish tank on the playfield? This is strictly a "bling" feature, and it exactly the type of thing that is usually reserved for the LE's.

Good point.

You are putting words into my mouth. I didn't say anything about vault editions, and I certainly wasn't proposing that they should pre-announce every single version of the game that they might potentially make years later. All I was talking about was the initial release information for the pro, premium and LE. Show us the three different models, tell us what features they will have, and let us decide what game works best for us. Is that too much too ask for?

I appreciate you saying this, and I agree that this was really the crux of the problem. Stern marketed TWD differently than they had with games in the past. This led to confusion, and ultimately resentment when the premium was announced so much later. The fact that the premium came right on the heels of the LE being sold out only added fuel to the fire. I think our eyes are open now, and people will be more cautious going forward. I know I will.

If you have read through this entire thread and you still think this is why people are upset, then I'm not sure how to even respond.

Yep. The DP fiasco sure stolen the thunder!

When you are forced to put down money on a game before having the opportunity to see/play it, that's a pre-order. What else would you call it?

I meant forced in the sense that you are required to put down your money early if you want to ensure that you are one of the first people to own the game. That's why I pre-ordered it. It was a theme I loved, and I did something foolish. I never claimed pre-ordering the game was logical, or financially responsible. Whether or not you agree with my use of the word "forced", though, it doesn't change the fact that it was indeed a pre-order.

Probably for way less now that the premiums have been announced.

And I'll be right there along side you, ice!

Keep on believing that.

I don't necessarily plan on lobbying against Stern, but I will do my best to make sure everyone fully understands what they may be getting themselves into by pre-ordering a game from them.

I agree that I'll be happier, but I'm not so sure about Stern.

I'm not sure what "conflating" means, but I assume you are saying that I am overestimating the impact that a single customer can have on Stern's bottom line. The thing is, it's not just me. Go back and read through this thread. There are a ton of people that are upset, and many of them have flat out stated that they are done pre-ordering games.

No argument there.

This is why threads like this are so important. A lot of people are quick to jump in and completely dismiss any grievances that people have, but feedback like this is necessary in order to evoke change. Hopefully, Stern reads threads like this and takes them seriously.

I'm pretty sure they sign it before any clear goes on.

In my best Dr. Strangelove voice ... "The whole point of the extra clear is lost, if they keep it a secret! Why didn't they tell the world?"

I will say that I have no idea if my TWD LE has more clear than the pros, but the clearcoat is fantastic on it.

It is absolutely not a real screened backglass. It is a translite. The feature matrix was misleading.

I just went and looked again at the feature matrix. You are correct. It was an outright false statement. According to the matrix, the pro has a "translite", and the LE has a "mirrored backglass".

I respect your opinion, but I don't see how the game can be described at "floaty". The ball whips around like a mother f'er!

Yep, and they look like crap. They could have at least put a flasher dome in the center like they did on ST. The naked LED sticking up through a small hole in the plastic looks downright chintzy. Fortunately, Hooked has got us covered ...

How can his opinion be wrong?

While Pinside does not represent all pinball buyers, I think it has become a very good place to accurately measure the pulse of the community. A company would be very foolish to completely ignore this site.

It's true. In fact, I thought o-din was RobT for a second earlier in this thread. It's all very confusing.