It was a just in case. If no preemies were ever made, it wouldn't of mattered.

I very rarely comment on things like this thread. I agree with the sentiment you express above 99% of the time, I really do. And to me it is interesting that I do even care in this case. That indicates to me that I sense something really, really wrong. And what's wrong is this.. Stern used the instillation of fear into its customer base to get its customer base to do something. They actively set out to make you fearful of missing out on a full featured playfield in order to force you over the edge and buy the LE. Very poor form.

From a collector's perspective, maybe...but it's a stretch. But from a business perspective? Come on... they didn't deceive. All they said is: If there ends up being demand for this title, then we'll make more in a premium model. No deception. If the LE was out of a buyer's price range, then they were at the mercy of the market. If it wasn't, and a buyer paid for a LE, then they got the "Limited" version. Again, where's the deception. Stern has released quite a few premiums...and all of them have the same playfield aspects as their LE counter parts.

If Stern was a multi-billion dollar company, then my feelings might be different....but not really. I look at them as a manufacturing company that's making a game that nearly completely died.

They came out...openly said that they might very well make a premium...and now they are making one. All of the LE owners still have their Limited art packages...and now other buyers can still gain access to the full playfield features.

This is a win-win for everyone

This quote is exactly why its bad form.......

Seriously? What a bunch of farkin whiners you guys are!

Stern: "We will consider making Premiums if there's enough demand for them." -pre LE release

It's so simple, really. Stern announces a new pin, and if you absolutely LOVE the theme and have the cash, then buy an LE and wait for good code.
Hell, I was able to go play the Pro before deciding whether I wanted to buy an LE.
If you're interested, but like me, realize that money doesn't grow on trees, then wait. If the game is a must-buy, Stern will make Premiums and take your money.
If you don't want to pay LE prices, and want more than a Pro, then wait. If the game rocks, get the Premium.

IF THERE'S NO PREMIUM MADE, IT'S PROBABLY NOT WORTH BUYING ANYWAY!

Worst case: the Pros will likely always be available. If you were trying to decide between Pro/Premium and no Premium is done, go get your Pro. Sorry you had to wait a couple months to find out, but them's the breaks.

What I appreciate about this is that Stern announced the Premiums very shortly after the LEs were sold out. Nobody really missed out on getting a full working model. On top of that, I think they must have made the perfect number of LEs. Anyone who wanted one, got one. They were still available after launch for a short while, but doesn't sound like any distributors are sitting on stock, unable to move them.

You guys who are throwing stones right now need to look for another hobby cause clearly this one is either far too complicated or far too expensive for you.

Regarding the playfields that say "LE/Prem": same reason that drive through bank machines have brail encoded buttons. (Hint: it's not for all the blind drivers!) Mass produce and use the same ones if necessary. Why produce a different playfield if it's exactly the same?

It's interesting how so many of you feel wronged by stern with this release. I had a bible ACDC and when Luci came out I decided to sell it and buy the Luci since I liked it better. I also had a 2010 iron man I paid a premium for but when I liked the vault edition more I worked out a deal for it.

Stern doesn't owe anyone any explanations over what they do as long as they don't reissue any LE's and we havent seen that yet. If you are worked about losing a little $$$ on a pinball purchase maybe a 7k+ toy isn't what you should be buying.

I'm in the same boat
Still not made up my mind was gonna buy a prem thought I waited long enough and sure enough gonna loose a sh*t ton of $$$$
Which is not even the point just wish they would tell us up front
Mustang has a fu***** Premium !!!!!

Agreed. The other issue that everyone was crying about previously was "If Stern does make a Premium, will they remove the cannon? Cause I want the full game!"
Guess what: it's all there.

Neither. They just pushed the line a little bit far this time.

Blind people as Taxi passengers.

That's EXACTLY what every Premium/LE situation has been. Both full featured playfields, LE has some bling (mirrored backglass, color trim, unique art, etc). This is no different.

This has been gone over a million times. Tron LE was made before there was a Premium/LE concept. Tron LE has the same exact cabinet & translite as the Pro. It never had the "LE bling" unique art that the LEs have now. It's essentially a LE & Premium simultaneously. So - if you made a Tron "Premium" now, it would be a remake of the LE, which Stern said they'd never do....and if you did new art it would be "more LE than the LE", which is also not cool.

About the only thing I wouldn't expect them to do is reissue an LE. Otherwise, Stern will go where the money is. That's how they've always been, and that's what they will continue to do.

BAIT and SWITCH!

Even still, happy with my LE, like looks of LE much better

I think the PRO guys really got F ed! If you would have bought a premium instead.

And you guys think a Tron Premium isn't coming $$$$. Change it up a tad, sell a gazillion mods through the Stern store and ring the register. Nah, Stern wouldn't do that?

It's not. Explained above.

How so?

Let's say you and I own Stern.
We announce a new pin. Start with some Pros, practice making them to see if there's any issues, then turn out some LEs.
ONLY IF THE LE's SELL OUT DO WE OFFER PREMIUMS.
Otherwise? Too expensive if the pin bombs and our distributors get stuck with these things.
Look: if there was a massive mark-up on these things, I hear you loud and clear, but that's not the case. Distributors can't afford to sit on ANY of these or it eats up all their profit on the other ones they've sold.

If Stern removed anything from the game itself, affecting the play, fine. Now we're all up in arms because we're forced to jump on board the unproven LE train every time a new game comes out, at the mercy of the coders to later determine if our new $9000 pin is worth $9,000, or $9.

This is the method that works best for most people involved. The ONLY bummer is that it's the first time they've done this.
I fully support the model but I do hope they're consistent going forward so that yes, we know what to expect as buyers.

I'm with you 100% on both

Tron ve will be sterns mmr

It is, see above, your argument makes zero sense and just wishful thinking.

If everybody else can clearly see how to do it, I'm sure it's not lost on Stern

$5000 by next Christmas....I'll wait....Code should be released close to then....

Really? I bought my first pin out of operation @13 in 1979. Were you born? It was a Gott "4 seasons".
Yes, I bought and fixed it alone, my dad had left this world when I was 12, and mom of course had no idea of what was a pinball. I remember the operator, it was a woman, "Are you sure you want to buy this?". "Yes M'am, and I will fix/shop it". Next one was a "Far Out", then more..
I currently have around 60K$ of pins in my apartment. Do you think it's too expensive for me? Don't think so. But this is definitely not correct from Gary.

My argument makes total sense. If they remake an LE, that will destroy the LE concept forever, which is already on shakey enough ground. No one would ever buy one again. They've remade enough Pros to fill demand. The license is expired and irrelevant to Disney at the moment. Done.

I hope everybody remembers this for the next game to come out.....but then again maybe next time Stern will pull a fast one and REALLY not introduce a Premium after all the LE's sell out. Those sneaky bastards. All's fair in love, war and pinball. I just made that saying up.

They will not remake a le just throw the same Features and call it a vault premium or whatever flavor of the week is

So who has gotten pricing yet? Since I'm way off base someone point me to a seller that is going to be much cheaper than 7K.

Like I said, if you haven't gotten pricing on a premium in the last 3-4 months you are going to be surprised how much they have went up.

Greg, you forgot 'but I love this pin.' That was part of that quote. No unhappiness with TWDLE.

Congrats on future preemie owners ( how ever many there will be).

I'm stoked this title is so popular!

I've already explained why that won't happen. All the same features = LE because the LE never had a different art package from the Pro. A Tron Premium would be a Tron LE remake, therefore it won't happen.

How many more f*cking years will this inane speculation go on for!??!?!

The line I'm talking about is the line between risk taken by the manufacturer and risk transferred to its customer base. The points you make DO make sense. There's no arguing that what they have done is sensible for them. But what they did here was force their customer base to make an uncomfortable decision . ALL the risk in the decision to wait for a possible premium was borne by the customer base. Stern took NO risk on this, and that is what is pissing people off. Stern could have taken a LITTLE bit of risk by announcing all three models initially.

Seriously... people were fearful if they didn't buy a top selling game in the first 2 months of it's availability that it would never be available again? Under what rock are they living? Everywhere around Stern is making titles MORE available with MORE re-releases.

Let's step back and put some perspective.. these are all people that bought a game virtually right at release in a cycle that Gary himself will be made for years to come.

People just aren't patient and now they are upset their eagerness got the best of them.

Nevermind there is always the second hand market. People are jumping before they look and want validation for their moves. Sorry, if you bought the LE out of fear of availability.. instead of being the game you wanted... you really should have some more self control and stop buying into the hype that a title is going to be the next unobtainium in just weeks after release.

i like how every thread, no matter the topic, always leads back to Tron

#100/400

here's the Tron Prequel... this is what's scared off Stern from making more
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tron-prequel-pinball

So next model is released using the same smoke and mirrors.......This time almost everyone decides to sit it out an wait for the Premium.....therefore the LE's dont sell because everyones waiting. Then what, they dont make the Premium because the LE didnt sell? But the LE didnt sell because everyones waiting for the Premium..and so on.

Its a flawed strategy and will catch up with Stern at some point.....

No its not a life changing issue, and despite what Chambahz sais, no its not going to make people get a new hobby. Its just lame and Stern loses goodwill. Its a small boutique industry.....everyone feels like they know Gary, Jack etc. You do tours of the factory with John Borg. For this reason people feel like they've been screwed. Just be honest with your small base of customers and they'll support you for the long term.

People expect this sort of stuff from large consumer companies where customers are just faceless credit cards. But not from boutique companies like Stern.

OMG. This. Exactly. Thank you.

And what about the guy that buys the current title, only to have the next greatest thing announced one week later.. and it's a title they'd want more than the title they got?

Who do you defend or attack then? The market is moving... everywhere... why this sudden expectation that we should know all future product releases before we make a purchase or the company is scum?

. You are kidding right? The LE concept is DEAD already. A sham and a scam, and we all know it. There are a few dummies like myself that will buy on a theme like TWD. Re-read what you just said. Pinheads are fickle, have a short memory and are used to getting F ed.

They will change the LE up slightly and then sell all kinds of mods for old and new owners of Tron, pro, premium and LE! Mark it down.

Stern is not a boutique company. They sell pins around the world.

And yes, expect this stuff from a large consumer company.

True. I tend to agree with you. But the points are slightly different. On the one hand, we can all say that people should be more patient, then the other question is whether or not, given that people will behave as people behave, a manufacturer should exploit that so fully, or perhaps bear a little bit of the risk itself.

In the scheme of things Stern is small and the whole industry is boutique.

Today I learned something I thought would not be true. Stern likes to make profit! WTF!

I thought for sure that they were just gonna make "a lot" of profit... but no... these wise cracks... they want to make "a whole lot" of profit! Taking advantage of the situation!

Whats the situation? The world is fascinated with "The Walking Dead" and its the #1 show on TV for ages 18-45. Their TWD pinball machine has has excellent sales in Pro and LE format... so what do these guys do... oh ho ho... they roll out a PREMIUM! And like... its like a LE... but not... and... dang!

I MAY HAVE WANTED ONE OF THOSE! I MEAN... I STILL DO... BUT I ALREADY GOT ONE... UHH... SO... DUDE!

What is up with all of these pinball companies trying to make a buck off the enthusiasts, players, operators and home owners? These guys should be "non profit" or something. This burns my britches. It's almost as if they are looking to continually find ways to pay their small army of employees, technicians, designers and office staff in addition to padding their pockets! Well listen up! Just because I have a problem controlling myself spending $7,000+ on a unnecessary toy does not mean you are allowed to play with my heart!

I mean... they never said that it was OUT OF THE QUESTION that they would not make a Premium, but you thought they wouldn't... cause they didn't... at first... but now they did.

Mark my words, I will never buy a NIB stern again! For like 3 months. Seriously! Unless its Jaws. Or Iron Maiden. Or Star Wars 7. Or KISS. Anything but those! Maybe.

I see what your saying but its already proven in this hobby that we will continue to buy pinballs regardless, Tron Pre's pretty much exist anyway with the EL wire mod the extra toy's, it costs around the same a Pre. No need to make more as I don't think the demand is there anyway. Even if they did make some kind of Tron VE Pre it certainly would not kill the LE market, at least not for me. The ultimate thing would be to offer a Pro and a choice of Pre's, with armor without, optional tranlites etc. As long as we keep buying LE's it will continue, now say the next Stern is a theme that you love, are you taking a chance that the LE doesn't sell you miss out and the Pre never happens, I wish I could but I can't take that risk and I like buying LE's, because I'm stupid. But happy.

There is that never word again…fu#@ing hysterical

I doubt anyone here is against Stern making a profit. Im all for it....honestly, the more they make the better.

Is the game tagged like an LE? No? Then it's not a LE. Simple enough. That whole train of thought shouldn't be holding anyone back. Stop trying to apply future ideals to the past.

Deciding to do it would be business decisions.... is the volume there, can it be made and can we do it at the margins we want?

Keep speculating for years...it's not going to happen...but, whatever...I hope they make 10 more Tron LEs for the 10 never-ending speculating manaics - enjoy...I'm not buying any more new games anyway.

There's a reason Tron's mods are aftermarket.
-Stern/Disney don't own the rights to the Bally/Midway arcade mod...they could never make a licensed version of it.
-The ramp lights would be too difficult to sell as an "official mod" cuz "normal" people wouldn't be able to install it like they can with a topper or legs.

They've still never remade an LE. So keep laughing. Guess you have to do something to pass the time while you wait for a Tron that will never be.

I just don't get it. They never said "No premiums" nor did they ever say "Most likely we'll never make a premium." They simply said that they were going to wait and see if there is demand for a premium.

Anyone with awareness in this hobby knew exactly what that meant...it meant there was a 50/50 chance that premium machine with the SAME playfield as an LE (minus the placard and LE art) would be released.

There was never any ambiguity.

I just don't see how this was pushing it. They clearly left the door open. They strong armed no one. They set no time line.

Like I said earlier...I do feel bad for any collector that wanted the full gameplay package and felt some sort of "fear of missing out" and unreasonably stretched themselves financially to do it, because if I had bought-in I, too, would only have wanted the full gameplay package (not the stripped down Pro version...not always the case with Sterns...but with this title, that's the way I felt). Of course, that was their decision...with a very big roll of the dice. No one forced them to do it.

Stern is only manufacturing what it feels it can reasonably sustain. You can't fault them for that. They aren't manufacturing life or death...just a particular style of game that all of us enjoy various iterations of. But, at the end of the day they are a company with budgets and real-life workers. They can't go all willy-nilly and try to satisfy the deepest darkest needs of 20-30 collectors. They need to make smart financial business decisions to make sure they are around to make more games in the future.

Are you sure your main concern isn't the depreciation of the LE if Stern makes a TronVE Pre? Why is it so important that Stern never makes a Pre version of Tron.

No, because there is a segment of the market that do want the pimped out game... they do want the 'exclusive'... there are people willing to pay to be the guy with the new toy... they want that version. That's what the LE will attract, and by not having the premium in the mix, they will not undercut themselves and ensure those people will buy the LE.

'demand' doesn't just mean sold LEs...

When the LE concept is finished for that run.. they can start offering other tweaked versions based on where they see the market for the game.

You want a good example of how to stall the market? Simply look at what Stern used to do... announce models without details of what the deltas between the models would be!

Somehow this segment of the market has been brainwashed into thinking you gotta buy this RIGHT NOW... that's just not where Stern is right now... and people are buying on their own self created hype and fear... not fear generated by Stern.

Exactly...it as if Tron Pros with a bunch of mods were for sale for 8K or something...there have been quite a few that sold for 5500 or less. If POTC can sell for 4k then Tron should be worth 2x that.

EDIT: Even with a re-run I doubt you will ever see one with mods for sale less than the price of a NIB pro.

Anything you buy is an investment. Even things you buy with no intention of reselling is an investment because you can always resale the item and recoup all or part of the expense. Whether you are talking about a house, car, painting, or a pinball machine. So yes, the money you pay for a pinball machine is an investment as you may at some point trade or sell the pin even if it is to buy (invest) another pin.

Whatever, we disagree. I don't know if there will be another TRON or not, but Stern very well may - and that is fine. For people on Pinside that say that they love pinball they sure get pissed when they make more, or better, than the one they have.

Why shouldn't they? If people keep telling stern "I'll pay more if you give me more game" should they not take advantage of that market demand? It's not exploiting when they simply give people what they've been asking for. People are willing to pay for games quicker, games NIB, certain numbers, etc, etc. These are people willfully spending more than they have to - not being duped out of their money.

Stern didn't force anyone to buy the LE... people jumped in and threw their money at Stern based on the license alone.

50/50 is highly ambiguous...

The argument is that the ambiguity was deliberately created to sell the LE's...."What if they dont do a Premium...............what if I miss out........I better buy the LE to get the extra features".