Said it before, and I'll say it again. This is verging on extortion. Anyone who thinks it is good business sense really means that it is a good way to grab extra cash. Very, very poor business practice and they should be ashamed. And I am big supporter, maybe not so any more.

Edit-- and I'm not crying. I haven't bought any model yet. I took a punt that they might do this. But that is the point. I had to game out their business practice. That is not a consumer-friendly position for a manufacturer to be taking.

I'm happy to see the Premium announced. I figured it would happen, but you can never be sure. I love this theme and would like to get one at some point. So far though, I'm not digging this game, but I have only played the Pro. My buddy swears by the LE. If I do end up warming up to the game after I've played the LE (and the code matures), I'd like to be able to get the full game.

I totally understand the frustration of the buyers who made a hard choice between the LE and Pro before the announcement. Still, if you are frustrated about it, how do you feel about the B/W remakes? The pinball market isn't what it used to be and nothing is sacred anymore. Paying a premium because of exclusivity is on shaky ground in so many ways right now.

Add me to your exclusive list. Pre-ordered WOZ (lost the money of course), pre-ordered the Hobbit because I loved the WOZ I ended up with so much, but so far happier with the time line of TH as it stands at the moment. Pre-ordered MMr but then pulled out with full refund when the fog lifted, thought again about TBL but didn't, now I feel like a reformed alcoholic - still have urges to pre-order, but know it's much better for me not to do it.

I'm lucky now that our local arcade - Timezone - gets all the latest Stern's, and they have the LE WD there. I think it's a great game, and would like one some time in the future. Wouldn't get a Pro which they also have due to missing features of game-play. To me, the pro is perfect for operators to put on site, but for home use, I want the full experience. I'm glad I waited and now they have made a premium, and may get one once I see code is complete. My STLE is waiting for it's update - and managed to get this NIB from someone who pre-ordered but ended up not opening it. Patience is a learned thing with pinball - and worth it in my opinion.

Stern misrepresented this pin to its customers. It's about greed, and that sux. The days of corporations
doing what they say appears to be over. I have mostly Sterns, however in the future, I will wait before
ordering the next 7-10 pins.

This will be the last NIB Stern I ever buy. Mark my words.

Sneaky pricks releasing a premium once they've scared you into buying an LE because it was the only way to get the extra features.

I feel the same.
ONLY way I'd buy an LE again is if it's Iron Maiden. Have to be a DREAM THEME for me to do it again.

I went out on a limb to buy TWDLE as I had just sold a couple pins and I liked the look of it and with no premium I liked the exclusivity of it.

If people don't buy the LE next time, there won't be a premium for SURE.
Nice business practice Stern.

omg, i said this so many times.

This was a dream theme for some.

The Premium looks nice - and would be the one I may go with.

Loving my LE so far, but what a lame ass move imho. I don't honestly care about the possibility of devaluing my pin because I actually plan on keeping it, but the difference between an LE and Premium is laughable. Oh well. Another lesson learned.......

It may be my imagination, but this has been one f-ked up week for pinball.. First Nordman and Aliens now this and the possibility of the next title being Fast and Furious. Wow..who cancelled Christmas?

I guess we could go back to 08 and 09 and look forward to CSI, batman, 24, NBA and shrek!

i am glad they made a premium available for the people that don't buy into the whole le nonsense like myself. your le will always be that, enjoy your game as it looks like a great game which can only get better with code!

I'm almost loving my STLE at this point.

I at least saw the cavity search coming

I still like the LE best.

I also can't believe that this move comes as a surprise to anyone. Every business is the world operates to try and maximize profits - every single one... If Stern pissed away opportunities to make more money, then they would be out of business. That means no new pins for you!

I like the premium best out of the art packages.

How did Stern misrepresent the pin to it's customers? Gary was asked specifically at the expo if a TWD premium would be made and he said if the demand was there then it would be made. The LE's sold out so there is now demand for a premium. I been saying this all along while others like underlord and mnpinball kept saying there will be no premium and if you want a full featured game then you have to suck it up and buy the LE. Looks like a lot of people will be eating crow today.

If a game sells well for Stern, they will make a Premium. If that sells well, they'll make another version of that Premium.

But I can see why people would be upset. There definitely should be more transparency between Stern and their customers (I say this for things like code too). Especially those who are purchasing LE models regularly. A simple statement at launch that says a Premium will be available if the table sells well would suffice.

I guess in the future I'd go by their actions over words. Just assume if a table sells well there will be more options. They are not about leaving money on the table.

my next pin will be a huo ST LE. I choose to vote with my wallet, if stern does not offer any type of concession they will lose a nib LE customer.

I got my ironman ve the other day, I have to say its the perfect pin, no pro, premium, le bullshit!

btw the premium with the stern topper- the fish tank on the play field, marquee and the header will be redundant.

congrats to all you future premium owners and your 1100.00 savings!

Where have all the "Pinball are not investments" & "More new pins are better for the hobby" people gone?

Agreed. I practically feel that way about the LE, and it only has a fish tank on the playfield.

I love the Premium. The focus on the fish tanks is killer and will look awesome with the topper. I'm interested to see what colors people go with for aftermarket powdercoating. Swamp green? Haha... should be awesome.

For what it's worth I think the artwork on the Premium is kind of generic and the worst of the 3. I actually prefer the red from the Pro.

And I think the LE is the most unique. They should have given the LE the bloody armor and art decals inside to really differentiate it from the rest. Basically I think the Premium and LE should have the same features inside but the LE should really stand out from the rest aesthetically.

A non-emotional comment. I'm so glad I bought the poor man's Pro and not the LE. The Premium looks so much better than the LE and ... cheaper. Still, I believe the Pro was the best investment.

OK, OK, crippled 'in theory' by removing certain playfield features and accompanying rules/scoring. (And nobody start with the lame/bogus argument that "oh no, X designer designs the full game, then adds even MORE for the Premium/LE!" That is total BS. Stern cuts cost by leaving some basic stuff out of the Pro models. Name *one* Stern LE that has more playfield mechanisms/features than an average older game, like a LOTR, Spiderman, Batman, Judge Dredd, WCS, Monster Bash, etc. etc. etc.)

No argument with your sentiments. But I will again assert that pinball machines aren't an 'investment'; they're a purchase *expense*.

I would have liked to see the LE armor on the premium and the aftermarket armor on the LE stock...
Because after you buy the aftermarket Trim for the LE what are you going to do with the trim?
That button on the lockdown bar would go great on my sopranos?

Been following this all day
Not happy at all with this move I am a pro buyer wanted a prem but was said over and over there would not be one !!!! I've bought nib before not a big deal waited walking dead out what I felt was long enough for them to announce the prem but I guess not merry Xmas .
Anyway more then likely gonna sell my pro and buy a prem but really pisses me off that I will loose money on the pro to buy a prem which again I will loose money on!!
Just started to turn the Corner and move to an all stern line up
Very very Irritating I would just like to have all Options at time of purchase not this bullshit maybe we will do this or we have a Premium but now we are gonna Release another premium ac dc luci
You can only bite the hand that feed so many times before it bites back
I really want the Premium but Based on principle don't want to go them another penny of my money

Yep. They nailed it with ST. The LE is just absolutely stunning.

The solution is obvious. Hold on to your pro until a premium is available in the secondary market. That way, Stern doesn't get any more of your hard earned money.

First World Problems.........

If anyone nearby wants to dump a pro, I am could be talked into buying if the price is right.

I'd call it crippled. I played it for hours at Modern City Pinball NYC, and this is the first time in years that I felt Stern had gone cheap again. I've really enjoyed Sterns recent releases...and the Pro versions of ST, Met and Mustang at that. TWP Pro is stripped down. It's a shame. There isn't even a SPINNER for crying out loud. How in the hell can they justify removing that? Really, this Pro release is a joke (if you look at what they removed).

I'm glad I'm poor and don't have to deal with these issues like you O.P.G.s.... (Original pinball gangsters).

I'm glad someone gets it !!
Not even about the money one but its the fact that they just Screw their customers over many folks like myself bought a pro and will sell and get a prem that's double the cash in sterns pocket x 2 out of mine !!!

Simple strategy. Sell all the LE's, then announce a premium. Sorry Gary, this will only work once for me, I bought a pro last week and now I'm pissed off!!! This is pitiful.

Oh and BTW, I've re-suscribed and liked Stern's fb page, but I can't post any comment, does this mean I have been banned because a while ago I just asked for the Met code update?......

Nobody should take this personal its just bussiness as the tz would say its only pinball lol

I'm glad Stern sold enough Pros and LEs that they felt confident that a Premium would sell.

That means that despite the downturn in pin prices, the hobby is still strong!

Just bad form playing games with your customers. Just be honest upfront...announce all 3 models and let everyone decide for themselves. Don't pretend there may or may not be a Premium just to sell your LE's. Customers give companies a certain amount of goodwill and trust, but it's limited. You use it up its really hard to get it back. I think stern have used allot of it up with this BS.

So what if the LE's don't sell out......all the better for LE owners. Just make smaller runs of them.

Even Stern can not predict when the market will reach saturation.

I'm just glad the market was still large enough for a Premium.

I fixed the Magneto fork post mech on an Xmen LE the other day and was surprised by the amount of stuff under the play field. That has to be one of the most feature filled LE's. There's a small auxiliary transformer under the spinning magnet mech. I've never seen that before. So I'd say that game.

In fact I think almost every LE has more than Batman. That game has 1 ramp, 1 ramp diverter, 1 drop target, a motor for the crane and the Joker, and a couple kick outs. I guess the track is technically a mech too, but that game is pretty bare bones. ACDC Premium? 2 ramp diverters, cannon, swinging bell, 2 kickouts, lower playfield, 8 drop targets, the dancing band, color changing inserts, etc.

Truthfully Stern games are my favorites. I'm relatively "new" to pinball though, with less than 2 years under my belt, so maybe I'm missing out on the nostalgia. I think the Bally/Williams peak was great, it seemed that had a great cohesive team of developers and programmers, unparalleled art direction, etc. But right now I think this is Stern's renaissance.

Stern sold out of LE's quick. Made a decision to make preemies while monitoring LE sales. Done. That's it. Nothing was being withheld except insider information to me and to distro's until later on when numbers were tallied up for Pro and LE sales.

Original decision was a two tier model only.

What kinda stinks is now TWDLE is just a blinged out Preemie. But I love this pin. It's fun and that's all that matters.

Think of this as a good sign that this title exploded with popularity!

Everyone here keeps quoting them as saying "there will NOT be a premium", yet no one has a link to that quote? I think people just heard what they wanted to hear...

If you are buying pins based on an investment or quality business ethics then stop.

I also think they did a great job on Avengers with the Hulk LE.

That's because they were told that the preemie model was scrapped due to David@stern wanting a 'simpler' model for consumers. But once again David and Gary underestimated the popularity of this title, and back pedaled in a premium version two to three weeks ago. Only Dave and Gary knew for sure this model was going to be announced. It's just a business, not a friendship or partnership with collectors. If a model is popular it will be sold.

Now why are they ignoring or getting annoyed about Tron? Maybe licensing? Maybe timing? Dunno.

This thread is getting more ridiculous by the hour, "verging on extortion"???????
An entertainmet device, that people decide to buy of their own free will, verges on extortion? Dude, step away from the ledge.....it's only pinball, listen to Rudy.

But has every pin up until now had 3 models right out of the gate? I guess I'm missing the issue here.

They make an LE and a Pro.

LE sells out, pros sell well, they realize they can make money by selling a more expensive but less limited LE so they go for it...I never heard (from stern) that a premium was out of the question?

Did they sell out before the playfields were printed? Because all the LE playfields say prem-Le, which implied to me when i saw it on mine that they bailed on the premium idea late or had it planned all along.

In the end, sorry but I'm pissed off... I got my pro NIB less than 1 week ago and now I'm going to sell it, buy a premium and lose money. This will happen only once for sure...