Lessoned to be learned out of this. Always expect there to be a premium...never assume anything. Keep that in mind when making your purchase decision. As flynnibus pointed out, if you want an LE, then buy an LE and be happy with it.

Personally, I'm a premium buyer, so I'm glad to see the premium. If I want bling, I will add it myself, and I don't have a driving need to be the first to own a title.

that's piece of cauliflower

I am not overlooking the people that didn't want to pay a premium for an LE. That is exactly the people that are upset right now, which you are insulting by saying "they bought a game they didn't want - whose to blame?". This includes people that settled for a Pro, or over extended for an LE due to the strong pressure that if you want a NIB game, this very well may be your only options. You can easily argue that customers should just be patient, but history has shown that sometimes patience does not pay off. If the LE had a comparable value proposition to the Premium for it's price difference, most LE buyers would not be upset.

Oh absolutely, I agree and it's 100% why I don't have a version of TWD in my house as we speak. Now I hold the cards for making an informed decision if and when I do.

This truly is WOZ all over again. It's exactly the same...but different.

It's not!

I'm all for it. I'm not one of these people who are calling for the end to the LE model. More choices = more better as far as I'm concerned.

I just think that people want to know what all of the choices are up front.

Exactly. We are in the same boat. And even though we made that decision (which was right for us), that doesn't make me any happier about Stern's decision to go about it in this manner. I'm certainly not going to take the approach that a few others have taken in this thread, which is basically to laugh at those who bought the LE or Pro and say that they have no right to be upset.

It really is the smart move, but man its tough to wait. I've gotten away with this on titles that don't really interest me then pick up a cheaper LE or PRE a year or so after release with near or fully completed code, any fixes from stern done and save some cash. TWDLE and STLE were just to tough to wait on, and STLE is still here where as AC/DC pre, Xmen LE, TAV LE etc. are all gone so very tough to be patient when its a theme near and dear.

While I like the idea of that - I don't think it is practical to put that limitation on pinball manufactures. If they can make a pin that people will buy after the first ones have been presented, they have the right. (good and bad goes with that as original buyers may prefer the newer model)

Your right. It's almost like making 1500 limited editions of a machine.

Great news for pinball . Gary's no idiot .

I'm not going to laugh at them, and I also don't think Stern handled it well, but there is accountability on both sides IMO - there are aspects of this "take my money" purchasing that I don't 100% sympathize with

And that's as much as I will touch on that, because going on and on about it won't result in winners/losers - just losers/losers.

Wonder if there will be a Maggie edition similar to ACDC Luci edition.

Yes, completely true. They announced around expo time.

It is on there website and you can contact Charlie for info if you want confirmation. AMH is a REAL limited edition. 150 and done! I suggest when you contact him to inquire you also get ready to send him a check

They also don't officially announce their next game title.. until they officially announce it.. Does that mean we all lock down there is no possibility that the next game will happen?? You're beating a dead horse here. The lack of an official announcement is exactly that.. nothing official, yet it was discussed numerous times with the public as a possibility. Nevermind the obvious behaviors of the company on other titles. Stomping your feet saying "they never announced this before!" is just nitpicking while ignoring everything going on around you.

Even last month... Stern left the door open in his Expo talk.. Jump to 52mins.. he's asked will they make a premium.. and he simply answers "we haven't decided that"
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/54117198

Maggie & Beth edition I would buy one for sure

Spooky says only 150. Charlie said so. He's made it official.

Interesting. That changed then from last year.

I like and support Ben and Charlie, but I hate the theme of that machine soooo much. Very interested in the zombie one though.

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled disaster....

Gary also has a history of saying things that can be the exact opposite.

They made more LEs at 600 and played a game about premium or no premium. You want to look back and be dead on good for you. Fact is in the end it felt like getting played. And yes your point is its on us ok. Good for you.
Our point is it would be nice for more clarity if they want a solid base of repeat high end home buyers.
If they dont , again then OK we will see how this pans out in a few more releases.

cars are shown after they are announced (obviously). And how far into the future did your dealer tell you about the paint? Did they not know this because it was part of their information from Harley?

Your counterpoint conveniently leaves out the dimension of TIME - I didn't say they don't announce things before they are available, I'm saying they don't usually tell you the details before they are announced.

Yet every manufacturer deals with this. STERN deals with it with every title. They don't acknowledge the next title until they are ready. Apple doesn't acknowledge the next revision until they are ready. Everyone has to face it because everyone has to face the problem of undercutting their own sales and dealing with inventory.

This has happened over and over in different variations even within Stern.. yet everytime people act like they've been duped, the sky is falling, etc.

Not

Hot

Enough

Next release could be no LE, just pro/premium, and Premium will be at LE price. There's an 'everyone wins and loses' strategy haha

The song remains the same... if you don't want to pay a premium for limited edition, dolled up games - don't buy the LE. If you do want that, you should still be happy with your LE. The price vs the other editions is a whole other story... but people are upset because they bought an LE when I guess they wanted a premium.

That's my point.. don't buy an LE if that's not what you are looking for. People were in some rush to buy TWD...why? Gary himself said they'll be making the game for years to come. Even as recently as Metallica and AC/DC... stern introduced new models AFTER initial launch. Stern is showing they will bring games back from the dead and build them again. Stern has been showing for years they will keep building games at length as long as there is demand.

So tell me again why people were in such a rush to buy an LE if the LE isn't what they wanted from the game instead of sitting back and seeing how the game pans out?

Damn! I missed her posing in Maxim. Alright, I have reconsidered, you are correct.

No kidding she is THE perfect girl next door hot! Love me some Maggie

WTF? Mr twisty you are.
Apple said its making two versions. I never said I want or expect Stern to tell me the next game. I just hope that they get things in order to be able to commit to the line up. Even a clear statement like premiums will be offered if LEs sell out.
Of course they dont have to do that now since its proven.
Most of this conversation is about asking Stern to release its core line up up front. No ones butt hurt or not manning up.
Just folks that spend decent money repeatedly trying to get ona page that keeps them as customers.
Why are you here?

I was initially in on the TWD, when I got the call from the distributor she said there will be 'at least 500 LEs, maybe more'...and there are no premiums at this point, but it is a 'maybe'...so I waited.

Maxim can make any girl with a half decent body and face look hot.

Not to derail this thread (& don't think I can with 6 pages in less than four hours ;-}).

We had waited 2 1/2 + years for our WOZ-ECLE & on the very day we were actually waiting for it to be delivered by R&L carriers Jack announces the NEW Ruby Red Limited Edition 75th Anniversary Edition & 1500 of them no less.

Talk about being Pissed-Off & feeling duped!!

This is also a true point. Anyone ever see what you can do with a slice of pizza and photo shop?

(I think that is faked by the way...but it is a funny point).

I think we have our backglass and cabinet art already.

But guys we gotta be fair to the ladies and give them a Rick/Daryl edition

No!

image.jpg

And what if not all the choices are made? Then what? Should Stern be forbidden from making new variations after the fact? Why is it against the rules to simply defer that decision to later?

Stern has demonstrated that games will be available!! People keep thinking it's 2010 or 2011 and if they don't buy the game RIGHT NOW it's not going to be available.. yet the game was just launched 2+ months ago. We have all these people who apparently jumped at games .. and now have regrets for jumping early.

People were overly eager.. and now have regrets as new information, products, and decisions are made. Demanding that everything be made known up front is simply unrealistic expectations going forward for products that will be made for a long time to come.

Even though we kind of saw this coming, and after the IMVE, Stern mods, etc, etc. I actually think when someone says 'Stern will never blah blah blah' it will make me chuckle.

Now where's that humble pie with a side of crow .

There is always the choice to not buy.

LOL! Why is anyone surprised?

The companies exist to make money, period.

If there is a way to cash in... they will. Get used to it.

Does this mean we will see a Tron Premium Vault? Well... never say never folks. Seriously.

***

HOW TO NEVER GET SCREWED OVER IN PINBALL
Step 1. Never buy a machine until 120 days after its initial release. This ensures your machine will have better code upon delivery, all additional models will have been announced, and you will pay for any market drops if they exist.
Step 2. Thats it.

120 days is too short. PLease change to at least 180 days minimum for code.

I certainly wouldn't kick her out of bed for eating crackers.

While that may be true, the problem with that is if you want an LE version, you'll be SOL if they're all sold out. Some machines you can't really wait that long to get, or they could go up in price like Tron did. NIB machines are expensive enough now.

Agree. I think people can strongly disagree about a premium/run of a pin, or feel it is highly unlikely. But never? no.

I'd go 365...maybe more.

Next game or next revision.. it doesn't matter. Both risk cannibalizing your own sales and creating stale inventory. The reasoning is the same wether or not you grasp it. Companies release new revisions all the time to revitalize an existing product or investment. It's just not reality to expect every variation the company has in it's mind to be laid out on the table at day 1 of launch. Hang Gary Stern in effigy if you want... but people need to open their eyes to whats going on around them.

6 pages in just hours of people crying greed, never again, etc.. yeah, no butt hurt at all.

Why am I here? What just because I don't post 50 times a day I'm now just here for this? Whatever... I've been in this hobby for 20+ years and my relevance or interest is not defined by your impression of where I post or not.

I seriously doubt it. After all the premium is an LE. It would be hard to separate the two. TWD LE was never marketed or described as a premium and it was mentioned that if demand was there a prenium was a possibility.

Now a Tron Supreme is another story.

Actually I would think it goes more like this.

_{Post edited by moderator: Please do not change someone's statement in a quote}

Apparently it wasn't clear enough that I changed Jared's quote. My thought:

HOW TO NEVER GET SCREWED OVER IN PINBALL
Step 1. Never buy a machine

and if you wanted a LE - you've got nothing to worry about with this annoucncement. But obviously you have people here who bought LEs not because they were looking for LEs... but better featured games.

Perspective... the game was announced end of August/Sept. It's only December.

and don't buy games today based on what happened with Tron in 2010/2011 - it's a different market and Stern is producing more games, longer now than then.

This is exactly the thought process these companies are banking on.

Maggie is definitely hot enough....

Actually, lets consider that thought, it has only happened with:

1) Metallica. Which turned out to be false demand as there are still plenty of NIB MOPs floating around.
2) Tron LE. The best example, though it is now from 2011 and we are about to enter 2015.
3) AC/DC. The second best example.

I think Stern now makes so many LE's that everyone knows they will be able to get one if they want one. 600 is not rare . . .

I could add Black Spider Man as well I suppose . . . though that was made so long after the reds I'm not sure if it really qualifies.