Too much fish tank and headless zombies on translight. Looks redundant.

Is there somewhere to submit this for consideration as the stupidest past ever?

Maybe his name is Allan.

If I think it would be dumb to spend $400 on it, why would I be any happier for the wife to spend our money stupid? I can think of 1000 other things i'd rather have for $400.

Now if she did some looking around and Found one for $125 or so, or had one made for $60 (is about what it would cost) that would be different. Then she would get a prize for being awesome.

If they moved in the tank, or at least the VERY minimum had bubbles coming up, it's would be a $400 topper. But just a bunch of latex heads you can get at halloween express in a plastic box with LED's. $125 maybe $150.

What's kind of bitch, is the fact that Stern has you overpay for the game itself. Least they could do, is make the add on bonus items reasonable for you. This is coming from the company that used to charge $250-300 for a NOS playfield back in the LOTR days. A playfield. That's what they would sell it to you for. Solid wood. Machined. 4 color printed. Clearcoated. all for well under $400.

I'm considering buying one and sticking it in a closet because someday down the road I want to have a Premium and I know that once Stern sells out of these the price will be more than $400. As for your price comments, they are laughable considering people are lined up to buy WH2O toppers for $300 and that is just a fricken sticker on a piece of plastic. TWD topper is the best topper ever and well worth every penny.

Yes but its Stern Branded. That's the only reason. Just like we all know you could build a LE pin for around 4k but stern charged 7500 for it.

I feel your pain though. People who renovate their own homes and build there own stuff are often in awe at how much money is charged for things we know we could build!

still does more than this does. Least WH2O topper is animated.

Well until someone puts up a comparable mod, this is the only game in town so to speak.
Remember the price being charged for the little LCD screen on ACDC and the custome painted Sparky's.

If there was a similar topper available for ACDC, I wouldn't be concerned about the price.
Remember, these things are just aesthetic. If you don't like the price, it's easy to pass it up.
Not like it affects gameplay.

the AC/DC screen was cheaper and way more involved and active. Custom painted Sparky was overpriced as well. I custom paint pinball toys for people all the time and cost $80-100.

Like I said, if they moved or had more to them. $400 would be justified. Ever shop at halloween express? This shit isn't as expensive as it used to be. Even if they had a large LCD screen up there, with video of the head tank just animating up there and the LCD screen boarder looked like it was a tank, would be better than this.

Well who knows? If others like you find these to be over-priced, maybe Stern will lower the price, or consider it when they do mods for future games.
This is their first mod effort so maybe testing the waters to see how much they can get?
I did feel that the side rails seemed pricey as I recall.

Definitely DO NOT buy the topper. I hear they will be releasing a Premium version for $99.00 once these sell out. It will have the same heads rearranged (or possibly not rearranged at all?).

I have been one of the most outspoken TWD LE owners on this topic, and I feel that my reasons for being upset have been clearly laid out. That being said, people continue to twist my words and completely ignore the rationale behind my arguments. Because of this, I feel compelled to clear up a few things:

For starters, I am not fundamentally upset by the fact that there will be more games hitting the market with the same gameplay as my LE. In fact, quite the opposite is true. I'm thrilled that the title is a hit and that Stern will be making more of them. I love the game, and it's great that more people will be able to experience the full featured version. I didn't buy the LE because of its exclusivity. I bought it because, at the time, it was the only way I could get the game with all the features I wanted.

Secondly, I am in no way, shape or form opposed to Stern making money. I openly acknowledge that when Stern is doing well, it is good for the hobby. I also feel that they have every right to maximize profits. I just don't feel they should do it by being deceptive or taking advantage of their customers. We are the ones that enabled the company to thrive. Without our dollars, there would be no Stern. Because of this, we should be treated with respect, even if that means slightly more risk or slightly less profit for Stern.

Lastly, it is not about the money. I can't emphasize this point enough. Of course, I'm not happy about something I own instantly going down in value. Who would be? The monetary loss isn't what made me so upset, though. I knew the risks when I bought the LE. I knew there was a possibility that Stern would release a premium if the title sold well. Despite this, I went ahead and bought the LE anyway, grasping to the foolish notion that Stern wouldn't purposely mislead us. Now that the smoke has cleared and I can clearly see what their plan was all along, it's extremely frustrating. They used me, and I fell for it hook, line and sinker.

And I want to apologize for everyone who I misled into buying an LE because I was misinformed.

I am sorry guys.

Some folks asked me for an informed opinion, and I tried to be as upfront as I could at the time, not knowing a premium was a last minute decision from the bossman.

I am very pleased with how the LE came out, if it's any consolation.

Last minute decision?

Doubtful.

You have nothing to apologize for. You were misled just like the rest of us.

How was anyone misled? People keep accusing Stern of being deceitful and misleading.
When I first saw the playfield, I instantly wanted one but I am typically more of a Premium buyer than an LE. I read post after post on Pinside and saw somewhere that Gary Stern was quoted as saying: "We'll make a Premium if demand warrants it"
in other words: "We're not wasting money on manufacturing Premiums cause if the game doesn't sell, we don't want to get stuck with inventory." -I'm guessing they still have Mustangs, Avengers, Xmen, and probably even Transformers that they wish they weren't sitting on (and if it's not Stern who has them, it's the distributors who support them).

This isn't deceitful; it's GOOD BUSINESS.
Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to impulsively buy the first machine you could get your hands on. Period.

YOU HAVE NOBODY TO BLAME BUT YOURSELF -though I'm not even really sure why you need to blame anyone? You bought a pinball machine that's as advertised.

PLEASE, SOMEONE; SHOW ME WHAT STERN SAID THAT ISN'T 100% TRUE AND ACCURATE REGARDING THIS MACHINE.

Dude, he has a friend that works at Stern, and even his friend thought a premium wasn't happening.

Still not sure how this means that Stern owes any of us an apology.
Had they said: "No Premiums, ever!" and then announced the Premium release, ok -flame on! -but that didn't happen.

So Underlord's friend isn't always in the know. That's VERY different from "Stern misled us".

This really does seem much more like "Underlord misled us" -only again, it wasn't misleading, it was more that the info he got (which was more than the rest of us had so I personally am appreciative of the "inside scoop" even if it's not always accurate), was inaccurate.

So please, anybody: show me what Stern said/did that was misleading.
They released an LE and Pro, and THEN announced a Premium? The horror!!!

It's not your fault Rick, we all knew anything was possible with Stern, and like Gweem said, the LE was all that was available at the time and the fact is we wanted it and we wanted it NOW! No patience.

Even though Stern blew another hole in their foot with this I still wouldn't reverse my decision.

Now, the future, that's a different deal. I'll happily just sit back and wait on anything and everything.

Well you might be signing a different tune if you had purchased a PRO because you didn't want to pay up for the LE and now can get a premium much cheaper after the fact.

In the future, just don't EVER buy anything up front then Stern might get the message that its NOT right to the early adopters to pull this BS.

Solution, like I said, NEVER be an early adopter again. Game over

TWD would have to be a bomb for them to not make Premiums,but it didn't bomb,it's a great game especially the LE's.

Wow. It amazes me sometimes what people read into motives. Not sure how Stern has done anything wrong here? It was obvious from the beginning that if the game sells well, there will be a premium. If not, there won't be.

This does not necessarily make me happy because I think there should always be three models, but I understand the logic used here.

See the point, if you don't buy up front, the game won't "sell well" and then they will have to figure out what to do while we wait. If you want a premium, simply wait, if you want an LE, simply wait, and don't buy a pro either.

This is what Stern is telling us to do. Their "logic" is going to backfire in the future. Maybe, just maybe, if more people start doing this we might even have some decent code on non Lyman games as well.

The logic is "buyer beware", including myself as part of the problem. Not again.

They said the LE came with a mirrored backglass and 3 zoned color changing GI.
There you go - can you PLEASE shut up now!

JEEZ - how many times are you going to ask the same BS questions that have been asked and answered a dozen times already! You're not REALLY asking a question, you just want to keep saying the same thing that's already been said over and over and over.

I have a few proposals that I think would make everyone happy in the future. For starters, the feature matrix should always include all three models, clearly listing the differences between each one. Stern should also provide photos of what each pin will look like, with a disclaimer stating that the premium model will only be made if demand warrants it. This would allow every potential customer to make a fully informed decision. When we are talking about a purchase of this magnitude, this is only fair. For people who argue that this would hurt LE sales, my response would be that Stern should make the LE upgrades compelling enough so that this isn't an issue.

This is very true - if everyone "played it smart", this is what would have happened...
1) Pro buyers that wanted a premium but not at LE price would have not bought
2) LE buyers that didn't think the value was there would have waited for a premium
3) Initial sales would be low because of all the above waiting
4) Sales #'s not good enough to make a premium
5) --- everyone wins - Stern sales are down, nobody gets the premiums they wanted

The artificial scarcity tactic that was used is manipulative and customers are not wrong to feel manipulated. I said it before -> it's not good business to upset your customers, and a lot of customers are upset. It doesn't matter if anyone thinks the customers are stupid or cry babies to be upset - you as a company need to make sure you don't upset your customers (again business 101).

Here is a proposition that would NOT upset Sterns customers...
If you're going to make 2 initial versions of a game - make it the Pro and Premium.

Then if it sells well, make a special Limited Edition version. I'm not going to go into the details of why this would be better viewed by customers and less manipulative (hint - artificial scarcity), so please don't bitch about it if you can't comprehend. This would not put the extra pressure (manipulation) on the customers and they could buy the game they want - Stern wouldn't have to make 3 models if the game was a dog. Even if someone really wanted the LE - they could wait it out without worry that they would NOT be able to get a premium. Only downside is Stern might not make as much (extra $1K profit) on the LE's, but customers (RIGHTLY or WRONGLY) wouldn't feel duped into purchasing a version of the game that ultimately was not the one they wanted, once all the choices were available.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Period

I don't get why some people just don't get that AND the fact that we as consumers are on the same side. Yet the "non buyers/non early adopters" consumers will rush to the defense of Stern over and over again only to get screwed themselves in the future or having had it happen in the past to them.

You could essentially have no Pinside threads if you took out all of the complaining on say Metallica issues and Star Trek code, etc... What's the difference? Bitching and whining all the same? Yet we allow it to keep happening. We consumers are on the same side, regardless of whether we act like it or not.

check out the last line at the bottom

http://www.sternpinball.com/upload/games/the-walking-dead/pro/TWD%20Matrix.pdf

No shit? We all know that line, and it IMPLIES adjustments in the matrix to those two models, that's it. So everybody just waits until all of the "adjustments" are done and then play it on location, and then decide to buy or not.

When they release another pin, I'll be reminding people over and over again. DON'T BUY EARLY

Yep. It's very perplexing that some people continuously try to downplay the legitimacy of our complaints. It reminds me of the MAD Amusement threads where someone inevitably comes in and says, "Well, I think Mike is great because I always get my stuff". This type of response completely misses the point. We are supposed to be a community. When one of us gets screwed, all of us get screwed.

so what else wasn't correct on this list

http://www.sternpinball.com/upload/games/the-walking-dead/pro/TWD%20Matrix.pdf

"Playfield slide support and brackets" only on LE. Is the pro playfield hinged instead of slide out?

"Shot lane returns to ball shooter" only on LE. I believe the pro does this

"Multiple color LED general illumination (red, green, white)" only on LE. Green was only used in the fishtank?

"Exclusive Limited Edition The Walking Dead mirrored backglass" So is this really just a mirrored translite? Anybody take theirs off of the glass? Stern usually tapes the translites into place.

Can anyone confirm if the last couple of LE's had real backglasses? The Avenger LE that I had to swap the damaged head on had a backglass that was backed by a white paper decal. I did not try to peel it off the glass (just a corner came up) but it did not appear to be a traditional backglass, more like a decal stuck to the glass.

Amen brother!

I wasn't implying that that matrix has anything to do with them releasing a Premium, it was in response to the guy that said "PLEASE, SOMEONE; SHOW ME WHAT STERN SAID THAT ISN'T 100% TRUE AND ACCURATE REGARDING THIS MACHINE." followed by the line "They said the LE came with a mirrored backglass and 3 zoned color changing GI. There you go - can you PLEASE shut up now!"

Got it, my bad, I'm a little touchy right now

This right here is the best resolution to all of this. Everytime Stern changes the sales model it's a learning experience.

Also, it's only pinball. The way some of you get worked up over the small stuff makes me think that pinball is not as relaxing a hobby as it should be for some of you.

Tron Intermission...

tron-zombies-1.jpg

Ha. That quote makes it look like I'm the one telling someone to shut up!

I know they have a disclaimer - so anything that was said that is not 100% true is covered legally, or may have changed since printing. That's fine and good, but it does not change the fact -> it's still not 100% true.

I am NOT saying Stern did this, but con artists will use this tactic quite well. For example, they could add to the feature matrix: "24K solid gold coin door", and then later say "oh - that changed" - and all is good? Also, do you think that these particular items I mentioned actually changed AFTER the feature matrix was released? possibly

You are correct, what they said was not 100% true and did differ in the end from what was on the matrix. But were they big issues or are you sweating the small stuff? They ended up hardly using the green GI circuit because I guess they said it didn't look good. And as for the backglass I am still waiting on a definite answer/pictures about their use of decals or translites instead of traditional ink printed on glass. I don't have any LE machines at the house so I can't check.

In honesty I do find both the Premium and LE underwhelming as opposed to the Pro model.

Also the light up guts on the LE kind of suck. They have a flash lamp under the well walker mech (which you might be able to add to the pro) but the walker is hardly ever open enough to actually see inside it and I really couldn't see anything in there worth even mentioning as a difference to the pro.

Correct - you can't count the fishtank - it's not GI lighting - they are feature lights counting progress towards lighting Woodbury.

You're right, playing pinball is just plain fun. But for people that love it so much that they really want to own the new games, they have to spend thousands of dollars to do that. Many people don't have that kind of cash to just throw around, but they like pinball so much that they "push" themselves to spend it anyway. And if they (RIGHTLY or WRONGLY) feel manipulated for extra profit of a large sum of money - they aren't happy about it. This would apply to any large purchase people make for anything. At that level it's no longer: "it's only pinball", and it's not really "small stuff" either.

Please note - some posts have a very bullying nature that purposely choose to ignore facts/logic. My response to the initial question (which was YELLED in all caps) was an attempt to get the bullying dialed down.

I'd like to see the price of the le/premiums in the AcDc premium range someday. I don't really see too much extra value on the LE except for the side armor which I could care less about.

I can see the frustration, if someone didn't care about the LE etc. Or wanted to see all the art packages like they did with ST.

But this is nothing new, Luci was not shown for quite a while, is every premium and LE buyer of AcDc upset or could they care less? I think the latter.

I don't recall 100% but might the Avengers premium and Metallica premium art packages not have been released until later on, after the LEs were on sale and people had somewhat committed to the LEs?

I own XMLE, I was not expecting a premium, may have been pissed if there was a premium (not sure because it didn't happen so I can say how I'd feel about somethig that didn't happen). But it's also means your game TWD as well as Met and AcDc is more desired and so likely Stern may spend more time polishing the code whereas XM was way down on the priority list.

Ding ding ding!! Exactly

It's really interesting to see how the community is falling on either side of the this sentiment.
Personally, I don't see it. Stern said that a premium might be built if sales are good. To me, that's not a scarcity tactic. I made my decision off that statement. If anything, any immediacy was created by consumers...and I can sort of understand that. But that doesn't mean it's rational behavior on their part

How many LEs were made? LOTS. Enough to more than satisfy initial demand, even past release? Yes.
Did Stern say that if there was demand, they'd make Premiums? Yes.
Did they say that the Premiums would lack any of the LE features that affect play? No.

If you want to complain about colour changing LEDs, go for it. As was pointed out on the matrix, it was also "subject to change". Mirrored back glass that looks like mirrored back glass, but when someone takes it apart piece by piece, they're able to prove that it only looks like mirrored back glass.
Oh noes!!! Like seriously, you're now just looking for something to complain about, no?

Stern is clearly looking out for themselves first. No denying that. But "misleading" is grossly inaccurate. "Scarcity tactic" is also completely off base.
"Selfish company trying to make maximum profit"? Yup. Agreed on that one.
That's what companies do though. Especially when they are the biggest company (by far) in the industry.

All I'm saying at the end of the day is if you're going to accuse Stern of mis-leading or duping, support your complaint.

What's done is done. I'm going to get my pound of flesh on the next rodeo

So stern said they'd make a premium if demand was there. You knew that and still opted for the LE.

How were you 'used'?

You had virtually every piece of data (except for price of premium) at the time of your purchase...

FWIW - the Premium/LE features are great IMO as they are mostly game play features (as opposed to bling). If you are thinking of getting one in the future, the extra $ for a premium is worth it to me, and I've played a lot on both...

- Bicycle girl / lift ramp (with problems fixed) is a lot of fun - more fun to me to bash BG
- extra Well Walker magnet - lots of extra magnet action
- spinners - love hitting the spinners - hoping for more scoring value in next update
- crossbow - very cool toy
- fire button on lockdown bar - just fun to hit - same on ST and AC/DC
- extra drop - makes that area more interesting / fun (for me)
- color changing insert lights - like em
- game controlled GI lighting - improvement over PRO lighting (should be 3 zones though)

NOTE: I think the pro's great too - either option is good. I would go premium on TWD, but if money is an issue, pro's are almost always a better value. IMO they should have added something more to the LE for the price, although I like the LE artwork best. TWD is a great game, and I think it will be a good seller for Stern.

I have already this question countless times in this thread. I'm honestly tired of repeating myself.