"Banker said:
Stern misrepresented this pin to its customers. It's about greed, and that Sux. The days of corporations doing what they say appears to be over."

Says the "Banker", sorry, had to do that

But you are right

Yes I agree.

You think that Stern has the foresight to pre plan an ingenious idea to try to dupe the collector market?

Or, that they just woke up and read the sales numbers.

Yeah, Stern will make a global conglomerate someday.

stern, give me a free fish tank topper for my le and we'll call it a day. ill forget about the bad l/s ramp, the horrible callouts, the crappy crossbow and the bicycle girl that you cant see!!!

I still love the pin though really!

Nope LOTR is the next VE, you better run out and sell your LOTR quick cause a better VE version is coming..
See I can do this too (it's annoying huh)

Annoying? No. Entertaining? Hell yeah.

800 pound gorilla in the room is the "prem-le" stamp on the bottom of the le playfields.

Nope LOTR is the next VE, you better run out and sell your LOTR quick

I know you were tongue-in-cheek here but I would sell my lotr at a loss to pick up an nib. The game is just that good.

Where have we seen that before

IMHO, There is only one Premium, and I mean ONE, that truly outclasses the PRO in every way, and that's ACDC.
The rest of the titles - Id always rather have the PRO, plus.. Shadow/Indy500/JunkYard/Avatar/Demo Man/Corvette/24/World Poker Tour/WCS94, or any of the 196 other commonly found $2,200-$3,400 DMDs.

In the end, that's how you gotta look at it.

Well said.

It's about survival. How many more high price toys will people continue to buy?

I contacted them pretty much right away (after the announcement of the game) and got a fairly detailed "maybe response"... Telling me that if demand warrants more games that they would make a premium mode. Anyone could have written the same email and probably would have gotten the exact same response, verbatim.

I did this before talking to a distributor. Turn around from the sent email to the response was a day...

That's exactly what I'm saying they did.. nothing else. But it's all the people complaining here they were duped, mislead, etc because they bought an LE when they wanted a premium.

Yup and exactly why I've said anyone who is acting like they were duped or didn't see this coming need to step back from their emotions and take a look around.

Truth. But think this through. Based on the posts that we've seen from LE owners in this thread, how many of them will buy the next LE release, or the one after that?

If everyone starts taking the wait and see approach, we won't be getting any more premium versions because the LEs won't sell out.

While Stern does have flexible manufacturing.. its still a long way from to 'build to order'. And every variation introduces more customer service issues, overhead, etc. Plus with Stern's small runs, you'd make parts ordering much more expensive when you chop the orders down into even smaller bits or have to do alot more inventory.

There are pros to this kind of model - but it doesn't come free and when Stern is already penny pinching at their base costs.. that's alot more overhead into their system.

True to a point, but there's always going to be a demand for "classics". Whether you're talking about cars, pins, guns, or even skateboards, there's going to be some level of demand for it.

It's going to boil down to whether or not TWD pin will become a desirable "classic" as MM, MB, etc. have become. Time will tell.

Glad they made the premium, more in circulation, longer in production, more chances to get better code with more sales and more chances to find the game in the future.

Anyone who didn't think this was happening is not aware of how things work with Stern and JJP for that matter.

It's the classic tale of the scorpion and the frog:

A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the
scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The
frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion
says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."

Or they go back to LEs being a very limited number and drive demand up that way and sell a premium anyway up front.

There doesn't have to be one way for every title... in fact I like that Stern is adapting as they go.. market timing and titles differ. No reason to try to put one inflexible model on everything.

If anything, people should recognize the number of possibilities KEEPS INCREASING. So buy what you want, not what you think will go away.

If people simply bought the game they wanted, or passed on games they didn't really want... this whole thread would be 2 pages long. Instead we have people buying on fear of what prices will be.. or thinking games will sell out in weeks.. etc. People are buying out of self-consuming fear vs buying what they want.

I feel worse for the pro owners that would have instead bought a premium if that option was originally available than I do for the LE owners whose perceived loss is the diminution of limited edition equity. The net loss IMO is bourne more by the difference between the pro and premium price than it is by the equity loss between the LE and premium.

I think after Mustang Stern will wait till demand is there before making Premiums, I personally don't think that's a bad thing outside the fact that Stern should include more product for LE price. Look at Xmen, TF's and TAV the LE's are cheaper than a lot of the Pre's of more popular games so it all kinda balances out in the end.

I remember when you contacted them, and I remember their response. The fact remains that the customer shouldn't have to actively seek out this information. It should be right upfront for all to see. Why was Stern only forthcoming with this information when pressed? I think we all know the answer to that.

That's what I'm saying, it wont. Having an original MM, or TAF, TZ etc. will be like a classic mustang or 57 T-bird. I don't see many things today that will become classics, even films and music while some of it is great, does anyone really think the new StarWars or StarTrek will ever be considered classic like the originals. Doubtful What the hell am I talking about? Time for sleep

What about car launches that announce the S level before they announce what the other levels will be? etc

If I bought an S level car and then the manufacturer came out with the "same" car for proportionately thousands less, I would be upset as well. It is a deceptive, short term strategy. I would be fine with the Premium version if they kept some small form of exclusivity in the LE, but to have an $1100 MSRP price difference (13% discount) for nothing is insulting and one that many consumers will remember. What's limited about the LE, the plaque? If I bought a $100,000 car and the virtual identical version was released for $87,000, I would never buy from that manufacturer again. It better have more horsepower, better brakes, better suspension, etc..

Agree 100%

But at the same time, are they really disappointed? They thought it was worth the price for the added features without knowing if a premium would exist. Does that really change knowing the premium is going to be available? And with a big name license like this, you really think they ever intended not to release a premium? I've always said it would be stupid for them not to. With the premium model, they can make and remake as many as they need be. Look at the reissues from stern over the years.

2003-12 The Lord of the Rings Stern SS ~5,100 4p I-0080 19 8.2
2004 Elvis® Gold (Limited Edition) Stern SS 500 4p 6
2004-03 Ripley's Believe It or Not!® Stern SS 4p I-0081 31 7.9
2004-08 Elvis® Stern SS 4p I-0084 57 7.5
2005 Grand Prix Stern SS 4p I-0091 8 7.2
2005-02 The Sopranos® Stern SS 4p I-0085 31 7.4
2005-08 NASCAR® Stern SS 4p I-0086 32 7.0
2006 The Brain Stern SS Converted Game 4p 13
2006-02 World Poker Tour™ Stern SS 4p I-0088 41 7.0
2006-07 Pirates of the Caribbean Stern SS 4p I-0092 49 7.6
2007 Black Spider-Man™ Stern SS 500 4p I-00A6 20 8.1
2007 Dale Jr. Stern SS ~600 4p 12 7.5
2007 Family Guy Stern SS 4p I-0093 62 7.8
2007-06 Spider-Man Stern SS 4p I-0094 42 8.2
2007-10 Wheel Of Fortune Stern SS 4p I-0098 73 7.7
2008 Shrek™ Stern SS 4p I-00A5 25 7.8
2008-04 Indiana Jones Stern SS 4p I-00A4 45 7.0
2008-07 Batman Stern SS 4p 19 7.9
2008-11 CSI Stern SS 4p I-00A2 28 6.5
2009 NBA Stern SS 4p 18 7.5
2009-02 24 Stern SS 4p 38 6.9
2009-12 The Lord of the Rings (Limited Edition) Stern SS ~500 4p
2010 Batman (Standard Model) Stern SS ~48 4p 8 7.0
2010 Iron Man Stern SS 4p I-00B3 47 7.9
2010 Iron Man Classic Stern SS Non-Commercial ... 4p 2 7.6
2010-01 Big Buck Hunter Pro Stern SS 4p 44 6.8
2010-08 James Cameron’s Avatar Stern SS 4p 24 7.5
2010-12 James Cameron’s Avatar (Limited Edition) Stern SS 250 4p I-00B6
2011 Disney TRON Legacy Stern SS 4p I-00B9 12 8.1
2011 Disney TRON Legacy (Limited Edition) Stern SS 400 4p I-00C2 31
2011 The Rolling Stones Stern SS 4p 11 6.6
2011 The Rolling Stones (Limited Edition) Stern SS ~350 4p 4
2011 Transformers™ (Pro) Stern SS 3 7.6
2011 Transformers™ Autobot Crimson Limited Edition Stern SS 125 4p
2011 Transformers™ Decepticon Violet Limited Edition Stern SS 125 4p
2011 Transformers™ Limited Edition ("Combo") Stern SS 500 4p 19
2012 AC/DC (Pro) Stern SS 4p 5 8.1
2012 Disney TRON Legacy (3rd Edition) Stern SS 4p 1
2012 Metallica Master of Puppets (Limited Edition) Stern SS 500 4p
2012 The Avengers (Limited Edition) Stern SS 250 4p 2 8.2
2012 The Avengers (Pro) Stern SS 4p 2 7.3
2012 The Avengers Hulk (Limited Edition) Stern SS 250 4p 2 7.9
2012 Transformers The Pin™ Stern SS Non-Commercial ... 2p 2
2012-03 AC/DC (Premium) Stern SS 4p I-00C7 27 8.1
2012-03 AC/DC Back In Black Limited Edition Stern SS ~300 4p PINBALL
2012-03 AC/DC Let There Be Rock Limited Edition Stern SS ~200 4p
2012-06 X-Men Magneto LE Stern SS 4p I-00D2 3 8.6
2012-06 X-Men Wolverine LE Stern SS 4p PINBALL I-00D2 17 8.2
2012-08 X-Men (Pro) Stern SS 4p I-00D1 2 7.7
2013 Disney TRON Legacy (4th Edition) Stern SS ~200 4p 1
2013 Metallica (Premium Monsters) Stern SS 4p I-00E3A 15 8.9
2013 Metallica (Premium Road Case) Stern SS 4p 6 9.2
2013 Metallica (Pro) Stern SS 4p I-00E1 17 7.9
2013 Star Trek (Starfleet Pro) Stern SS 4p I-00E4 15 8.0
2013 The Avengers (Premium) Stern SS 4p 1 4.2
2013-01 Star Trek (Enterprise Limited Edition) Stern SS ~799 4p I-00E6
2013-12 AC/DC (LUCI Premium) Stern SS 4p 4 9.2
2013-12 Star Trek (Vengeance Premium) Stern SS 4p I-00E5 9 9.0
2014-04 Mustang (Pro) Stern SS 4p 4 8.4
2014-05 Mustang (Limited Edition) Stern SS 4p 2
2014-06 Mustang (Premium "Boss") Stern SS 4p 2
2014-07 Iron Man (Pro Vault Edition) Stern SS 4p I-00B0 5
2014-08 Metallica (Pro LED) Stern SS 4p 8.8
2014-09 The Walking Dead (Pro) Stern SS 4p I-00F5 12 8.0
2014-11 The Walking Dead (Limited Edition) Stern

As you can see, stuff has been reissued numerous times. Many releases a lot of people didn't even know happened. Unless you bought it, hoping it was going to be one of the 2% sought after titles like the 2 (Tron LE and AC/DC BIB), you won't really care. It's the model you wanted, you felt justified in the price when you bought it, any further releases should not effect that. If they come out with a LOTR VE, i'm not going to feel any different about buying mine NIB. If they bought it for investment. Then they are very very slow, and havn't learned their lesson from the last 10 releases. FRANKS N BEANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let’s see Chevy Volt the increased the battery size some and dropped the price $5,000. Now they are coming out with a 2016 Volt 2.0 lots of upgrades and they say at even a lower price.
It happens.

How many pins can I haul in it?

If they wanted to buy a premium they couldn't. They had no way of knowing whether there would ever be one. They had to choose between a pro, an LE, or nothing.

OK just looked at the spec sheet.

Premium is an LE with different art. So the premium costs them the same to build as an LE.

WTF????????!!!!!!!!! And they have the nerve to sell TWD armor instead of including it with the LE.

Dirty!! Take my $1100 and stick it you know where Gary. And no shaker.

Never mnd the money and effort to get Bicycle Girl lit.

That's the way it always is. You pay the extra amount for the big "limited edition" factor which means dick.

Game over

This is exactly what many of us would prefer.

Huh?

Is this some kind of psychobabble? Buy what you want, not what you think will go away?

That's the entire point. How the hell can someone simply buy the game they wanted if it didn't exist and they don't know what all their options would be? They didn't know what a Premium version would look like if it were offered at a later date.

Why are you pretending that this is a simple black and white issue, when it clearly is not? Just because some people who bought the LE or Pro version of TWD would have preferred the Premium version if it were available means that they bought game that they didn't really want? Really? Perhaps they wanted it given what their current options were at the time. This included the possibility that the Premium would never be made, which played into their choice of buying the LE or the Pro. Or nothing.

Can't wait for the next release. Should be the last title Stern ever makes at these prices if all these threats ring true. Might be able to actually afford another one!

You're just hoarding all your money to splurge on an elite title.

Stern LE's are officially a bad deal.

Yup, I think Stern officially shot the Golden Goose LE (GGLE) with this announcement.

These threats are made with every release. Whether its the code, unannounced premium, price, blah-blah-blah. Yet its the same people always plopping their $$$$ down for the next title, look at their collections, most have or did have the last several LE releases. Then they come on here pounding their chests, shouting "NEVER AGAIN", only to look like complete assholes when they are "in" on the next title. Then the cycle repeats wah-wah-wah. Shut the hell up, stop buying from Stern, or get a different hobby. It's really that simple. I've had a lot of hobbies in my life, but none of them had the cry baby attitude of a lot of members here.

That is a normal definition of a Premium... LE playfield, backglass, different art, . What you pay for in the LE is the "Limited" factor.

Everyone should know what they are getting into, 500+ entries in this thread indicates false surprise for the sake of controversy.

Just one more reason to look forward to the next title.

Amen brother !!!

I do think they've differentiated the LE enough to justify some price increase in the past. Star Trek had the lights in the armor. Avengers had the green DMD and focused on a particular character. But in the case of TWD, it seems like the only difference is which art you prefer.

I don't fault Stern for running a Premium. But I do think they owe it to LE owners to make sure their item is somewhat unique when that Premium comes out. If they had given LE owners the blood armor, the side decals inside, called it the "Walker LE Edition" while focusing the artwork strictly on the walkers (similar to how Avengers Hulk LE focused on Hulk), I think you'd see people would not be as upset.

When they come out with an LE they should list the features that will not be available in any other model. "This is the only model that will feature the blood armor, etc". People just want a little transparency and not have to feel like they're guessing when they are making an expensive purchase like this.

Its probably been said already but how about just get rid of the LE versions all together? Pros and Premiums only. Keeps everyone happy.

Considering how close the premium is in price to the LE I cant see it making much difference profit wise.

Just think. None of this bitching and long time customers hating on Stern. Pro and Premium machines for everyone! Seems such a simple way to keep your customers happy.

Stern will always make a Premium if it sells good and it will only sell good if it is in demand and a fun game so if the game you own isn't making a Premium of it you probably wouldn't want it anyways,also they will spend more time making the code better because it is worth it for them with the money they bring in.

The way I see it, Stern tries to follow three basic rules:
1. Maximize profits.
2. Keep all customers happy.
3. When rules 1 and 2 are in conflict, rule #1 shall take precedence.

It's a shame about rule #3.
But I'm not making the rules. It's not my business to run.

I think it was a step backwards (for players) when game versions started having vastly different rulesets and gameplay was no longer identical. I also believe good game design is hindered by the need to fit the Pro/Prem/LE model and justify the price differences.

I just wanted to browse some pinside before calling it a night. Took a lot longer than I thought.
Thanks for the good read.

The only thing that "bothers" me is the difference in bling in the LE's solely because of a designer. Ritchie, probably because he goes on a crusade to get his idea's through get a LOT more bling then any other designer. STLE has light star trek insigna on the backbox The metal speakerpanel. Lights in the speakers and lights (that so far don't do squat ) in the apron. Also frikkin cool lasers in the kabinet and a lasercut enterprise. All the other LE's have a color trim pack... and that's it. Although the price is no different? Ok TWDLE was maybe 250 euro cheaper here, but also didn't include a shaker so it comes more or less even if you ask me. AC/DC LE's were the same btw.
That's the only thing i'm not so cool with.

My only issue is that I had to make a decision between 2 models if I wanted TWD at the time they announced it. I elected to go with the LE because I wanted to extra features. In the past Premium was always listed (at least from what I remember) as a possible option at release, so I usually went that direction. Regardless, I'm happy with my LE and learned my lesson. There's just no way there's a $1k difference between the LE and Premium though. Stern lost me a bit on this one.

Yep. I'll NEVER, EVER buy another LE. Period.

Do you guys need another reason to STOP buying unfinished games form Stern?

This is it! Anyone that is waiting for at least a reasonable level of coding is not in this "I bought a LE but now a prem is available" or "I bought a PRO but would have paid the extra for prem" dilemma.

Stop pissing and moaning and start actualy voting with your money. If you stop buying (or just start supporting companies that give you what you want >> finished code upon delivery and no extra model/feature crap) then just MAYBE you will have an impact.

Granted being loud and vocal in public to try and sway other could help also. If you are sincerely pissed then I suggest writing an email to Stern. I personally would send it to every email I can think of in the organization and not just their customer service rep. If they get as many emails from long term buyers as are posts in this thread then maybe that will have an impact.