While I agree that the spinning disc on Tron is superior to the prison magnet on TWD (I own both games), that magnet has caused plenty of badass moonwalking on my machine.

Twister has a magnet on a spinning disc. So there!

I think you got blinded by star treks lasers at some point. Or maybe it's just the cold weather up in canada has frozen all your brain cells eh hoser???

Good point about TRON being a great pin with very little in the way of toys. The spinning disk and TRON arcade cab are nice - but this pin just seems to have 'it'. I think I have played all the Stern games except TWD and TRON is the top for me in fun. My #2 pin from Stern is LOTR and #3 IM.

You guys are a riot! I love my pro. It is one of my favorite pins owned to date. Rob, Scott, and anyone else who want to swing down to Murrieta to play Refinery #1 in a home environment are more than welcome. You too Smassa if you want to swing up!

All of that said, Rob did not have fun playing this pin. So what. Has frozen taught us nothing? I do not like MM. Pretty sure I am nearly alone on that one. I liked Xmen more than Tron. I love LOTR and got zero enjoyment out of POTC and on and on and on... We like what we like and so far, Rob doesn't care for this one. Man almighty, let it go!

Ha, I love it, if you must know its the drugs. It is getting cold fast this year and I hate it but there are perks to bad weather, like its shit outside so Ill stay home all day and play pinball and with myself.

I've put 200 games on it faster than any other game I've owned.

Eskaybee and NimblePin love XM. Smassa and I don't care for it. We don't take it personal. We just joke about it and poke fun at each other and think it's funny how we can have such differing opinions.

Nothing to get worked up about!

Too late RobbieT! I'm already headed over to your house with O-Din's screen door to slap some sense into YOUUUUUuuuMWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAaaa!!!
*rage grumbling*
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noooo.jpeg

Probably made some pinsiders dream die. jk sounds like you are keeping this one more than 6 months. Glad you enjoy your game.

Hahaha.
No worries O-Din, your screen door is still in one piece! (For now...)
Luckily RobT and his quick thinking had three piping hot Screamin' Sicillian pizzas waiting for me on the kitchen table.

081213screaminsicilianjeffengel*600.jpg

Once I saw those babies, the pin-thread-rage just melted away and hugs* (+beer) were enjoyed by all!
Just goes to show how the mutual love of pinball can bring people closer...
That- and delicious pizza. (P.S. I saved you some Hazoff! )

As for this latest TWD thread, I'm just glad people still care about pinball, in any capacity!
I enjoy all that pinball offers (in every era) and tend to root for the underdogs (like TAVLE, XMLE) so, if TWD is "supposedly" getting some negative press right now, it just means that I'll probably like it and hopefully be able to scoop a nice one up down the road. Pins can always be tailored to suit one's tastes after all; wether it be a floaty "hot mess", or a supersonic drain monster, it CAN be adjusted! Borg has a pretty strong resume so, I will withhold judgement until I play the final incarnation...

My two tokens.

*Hugs are always available, if requested in person.
Offer valid only during shows or other pin-gatherings. Limit one per person, per event. Expires 12-31-2017. Hugs are not redeemable for $$$ and or, plaid pants.
Offer not valid in Honduras.

Those pizzas are the best! Man are they addictive. Only frozen pizza I ever felt the need to stock up on. Or pre-order for that matter!

The 2 magnets (prison & well walker) really throw the ball around a lot - they are very strong. I've seen the well walker actually make the left ramp!

The crossbow is cool - it moves very fast which makes it very challenging.

The spinners are very satisfying to hit - hopefully it will tie into good scoring soon.

The rules already show signs of being excellent.

The right ramp is awesome - tight shot but feels great to make it - long and smooth

Bicycle Girl with lift ramp is very cool -> and will be cooler with the light mod coming.

Drop targets are very important, and feel like the are in a cave under the left ramp.

Theme, Theme, Theme - very different - the last close theme was BSD - 1992 I think -> 22 years!

TWD has a LOT of toys (especially the LE)! More than most of the top recent Sterns. I just don't get your comparisons, as there are more game play toys on TWD LE by my count than almost any recent Stern. Please note I am ONLY counting toys that are a part of game play, and not counting others (like the Fish Tank), also not counting stand-ups, but I am counting drop target banks...

TWD LE - count: 12
- Prison (optical bash) with opening doors and Zombie bash - count as 1, but could be 2
- Well Walker bash
- 2 magnets - counts separately from bash toys (I did the same for other games)
- 2 spinners
- controllable "block" drop
- Convertible / Lift ramp + bash toy - count as 1, but could count as 2
- Crossbow / cannon
- Fire Button on lockdown bar (note - could be used for more than just the cannon)
- Star Rollovers - integrated as a toy for special skill shots
- Drop Target bank - in a difficult spot (hard to hit bottom drop), and important in game play rules

Monster Bash (which I love) - count: 5
- Frankenstein Bash / Ramp Reveal - count as 2
- Dracula
- spinner
- phantom flip - not sure if this should count, since it's usually turned off
- uh oh -> that's it

Metallica LE - count: 8
- Sparky Bash
- Snake Bash
- 2 magnets
- 2 spinners
- In Lane Drop bank
- Newton ball with Hammer

Tron LE - count: 4
- up/down bank
- spinning disc
- drop target bank
- spinner

IM - count: 7
- 3 spinners
- 2 magnets
- kicker
- Monger up/down bash

STLE - count: 7
- Vengeance bash w/magnet, kicker and drop - count as 3 toys
- spinner
- fire button on lockdown
- warp ramp - since STLE is so low on game play toys, we'll count it
- outlane kickback - we'll even count this

AC/DC LE / Premium - count: 8
- Lower playfield - BIG TOY
- 2 drop down banks
- spinner
- Cannon
- Swinging Bell
- Fire button on lockdown bar
- Ramp diverter - we'll count it
- --- really - that's it - the other stuff is not part of game play

Toy Count Comparison
-------------------------
TWD LE - count: 12
Monster Bash - count: 5
Metallica LE - count: 8
Tron LE - count: 4
IM - count: 7
STLE - count: 7
AC/DC LE / Premium - count: 8

The clear winner for most toys is TWD LE by a landslide -> 50% more toys

As my friend Derek would say "What do you think of that"

Here's a video I shot tonight. It clearly illustrates that SDTM drains are not a problem if the game is leveled and pitched correctly ...

What? It's a full on fan pattern at its fullest. 2 flippers hit all shots in a "fan" pattern = fan layout. My favorite layout

Heh?

Eh as in its a crap toy

^^^ this. Not sure what exactly makes the immersion of this design mesh. Don't really care. It just does. Like Tron LE ( and Pro), sometimes Borg just builds a great feeling while playing. I don't see a well Walker bash toy, I see a stacked MB while fighting bicycle girl AND hitting prison zombies.

Pops definitely give me a needed break occasionally while surviving in this world. Music, dots, modes stacking, trying to keep ball from SDTM drains or nudging on outlanes, all just come together.

I love this show, and fought for theme, but I'm not going to blindly donate $8k to a lost cause either. If Borg and Lyman had no passion for this job it would've shown. Stern is lucky to have them.

The difference is the tighter lanes, and that brutal pops lane at the RR tracks on the right. Game tends to punish novice players if they wander into prison or pops lane. Not a bad thing for stubborn players.

Mine is still sitting in the box. I'm not sold on opening it yet...

it is not a fan pattern. Typical fan pattern game has outside orbit on left and right. Left ramp feeds left or right flipper, right ramp feeds other flipper, center shot, with maybe a center loop shot thrown in. they are very typical and cookie cutter. This one changes things up slightly and it's not your typical fan pattern. It's more of a TOTAN style game

where did you get the speaker grills with lights? Looks great.

probably from the same place you get them for all the stern games. I love them, have it on my AC/DC, TF and LOTR.

Where? I'm a little slow

http://www.speakerlightkits.com/

I forgot where I got them from so I typed in pinball speaker lights and found it in google.

Out of stock on TWD, Damn it.

The speaker lights with game specific acrylics are awesome. I have them on several of my pins ...

Speaker lights #1.JPG

Speaker Lights #2.JPG

Speaker Lights #3.JPG

Speaker Lights #4.JPG

I think you are trying really hard to convince yourself of something that isn't true!

The list of toys vs other games is a plain and simple fact - you can easily go thru the list and see if there are any mistakes. Please do and show me where I'm wrong

It seems that you are trying really hard to convince yourself that you made the right decision by dropping out, but some of your posts just don't fit reality.

BTW - sorry for the "What do you think about that" - it's an inside joke that many may not be familiar with.

Again - please show me any mistakes in my simple math adding up the toys

Number of toys is irrelevant. It's how the toys make you feel. Are they satisfying? I agree with Rob, TWD's toys are all kind of a waste. Hitting doors of a house that open to reveal another wall to hit...who cares? If it was a ball lock it would have been more satisfying. Hitting a torso man with no mechanical interaction...who cares? Maybe if he moved like Hulk, it'd be a bit cool...maybe if there was a "AFM style coil" that burst him in half and kept his guts exposed for a while, it'd be cool. As is? Meh. Cannon? I'd rather play AC/DC. Head under a ramp? I'd rather play NGG.

Sure, Tron has one "toy", the disc...but there are satisfying and exciting change states, something TWD doesn't really have. You hit the 3-bank, it drops to reveal the disc shot...and the disc lights up red, which looks cool. The way it whips the ball back at you like crazy is something no other game has really done before. When you start Multiball on the LE, the disc turns blue. It's an immensely satisfying shot to interact with.

^ what he said.

I have always said that Tron delivers an experience that is greater than the sum of its parts. It's easy to look at the sparse playfield and dismiss the game, but it's one of those rare examples of everything coming together just perfectly. The disc, the music, the callouts, the lighting, the rules ... It's pure awesomeness!

Just got a substantial code update! Thanks Lyman, more awesomeness for TWD.

The toys on TWD aren't a "waste" unlike ST, they are fun to shoot.

Hey, if you're enjoying it. I don't see how hitting a wall or a torso are fun to shoot. I think ST's drop target, hitting a magnetized ball off with another ball, and shooting a tight shot that shoots back at you is way more fun...plus all the crashy ship action that goes with it.

Whatever floats your boat...."crashy ship action"

Its damn fun to smash the prison and BG and Wellwalker, I would have preferred moving targets that slowly move down the playfield toward you and you have hit them before they reach a certain area or even pop ups would have been cool but these are quite satisfying, some of you guys obviously don't like, but why comment on a addicted to TWD thread. Oh and by the way that spinning disc toy on Tron is magical.

I'm just glad you're PLAYING a game you paid for!

Well, I'm especially sorry to see how let down RobT was with the game since he was really excited about it.

I'm falling on the side of loving my LE. The theme for me is the biggest thing and ultimately what sold me on it. I'm a pretty terrible pin player, so I don't know what really "makes" a game for some of the higher level players here, but for me TWDLE is just fun, hard and keeps me wanting to play one more.

Obviously there are things that aren't home runs, the voice work most notably, but even that in the heat of the game I barely notice. Everything else mainly cosmetic and will be remedied shortly.

Updating code now and then time to play more!

Ditto.

Ditto.....too slow! I'm in the garage man cave, gonna turn the sound down and hope the wife and kids don't find me. Can't be distracted right now

The shots on TWD are very satisfying - but it ALWAYS takes cool rules AND UNDERSTANDING those cool rules to really "feel" the satisfaction, as well as cool sounds and lighting. There will always be people that are dismissive of a new game and there will always be people that love it.

Time will tell, but IMO everything is there in TWD LE and with great code it will be a highly regarded pin by good players. It is on the harder side, so that may turn off some, especially if they don't have enough time on the game to learn the rules.

I know all games have close and far shots, but the variation on TWD is special. The right ramp is awesome and not too easy - for me it feels great hitting it - makes Arena mode excellent. I really like that the ramps are LONG, and not just a quick return. The modified fan layout feels like a fan + TZ, because there are so many varied depth targets to shoot at.

Just got back from putting some more quality time on TWD pro.

Again, this is the PRO.

I will say this: there is no doubt that a lot of the negativity and feeling like this pin isn't "fun" has a LOT to do with the fact that the pin drains the ball from the pops and from the Prison magnet so much. Ridiculous! It was so bad, at one point I had multi-ball going, and I had all 3 balls come out of the pops one after the other...1, 2, 3, and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM WENT SDTM!!!

It was actually funny in a way. I was thinking to myself that I really wish that someone else from Pinside was there to witness it, or that I had video of it!

So I had to do my best to put that pisser of an issue aside and concentrate on the other things. When you can put combos together on this pin, they are very satisfying and smooth. Those feel good! I still don't like the amount of time the ball is put in the pops. Just too often for me.

I've come around on the ramps, they are pretty cool, but not sure if I like how they come back to the same flipper.

Played enough that I was able to tell a bit more about the code/rules, and stacking, which isn't too bad. And it's obviously early, so that will only get better with Lyman working on it.

I did have a decent game, long enough to get a feel for more of what the pin had to offer, and I can honestly say that one was pretty fun (it's always fun when you have a good game). Even got on the board.

I don't know if the LE has enough extra stuff to get more excited about it, but I'd still like to play one. And I'd obviously like to play a TWD (pro or otherwise) that didn't have this terrible issue of drains from the pops and magnet release! This pin is played in a league, and it certainly doesn't feel like it is not level. Strange.

IMG_1113.jpeg

Did it have the new software on it yet? Lyman changed a bunch of stuff.

Did you watch my video? This does not happen on my game. I made no changes to the playfield. All I did was level the game and set the pitch at 7 degrees.

What do you want me to say?

This one does. In a bad way. And I've read about plenty of others having the same issue. I'm not imagining it, believe me.

Obviously, you're not imagining it, and I get that the game would be very f'ing annoying with that happening. My point was that perhaps some games aren't properly set up. It's also entirely possible that, due to playfield variances, some games are simply more prone to SDTM drains than others.

A WHA??????

Open it the f**k up Lorenzo! Don't care how many guns you got, I will slap some sense into ya!

I got lucky and didn't have to even level my TWDLE. Rob, bro, wish you were in NH area to play a home environment LE. Still doing my update... Could be awhile.