Can you post a link to this please?

Wow! That's awesome Lyman came out and said that. I hope Gary is reading.

Gary, give your programmers enough time to make a game great with excellent code support. If you are pissed about what Lyman said I'm sure JJP would be more then happy to offer him a job and give him all the time he needs to work on code. Your days of just cranking out 3 games a year with minimal code support for some of the games, 6 month waits for updates and expecting collectors to still buy the games for $5k-$8k again and again are over.

Wow interesting. I thought the upcoming TWD code was Lyman generated?

That news makes my score last night all the more appropriate, I guess. photo (1).JPG

So we're all waiting for an update that may never happen?!? Wow......I'm done with Stern.

I don't think Stern has "switched" programmers on TWD - they just haven't been giving Lyman any time to work on it. Sad really, as they just don't seem to get how important good code has been to their success up to this point. Most of the major titles that have made people Stern Fans are all because of code updates that were done by Keith or Lyman on their own time...

TSPP
LOTR
SM
AC/DC
Tron
Met
IM

If the code updates had never been done on these titles, Stern would not be where they are today.

Another thread on here (the #wheresthecode thread) has someone attesting that Lyman has an LE in his home and is actively working on it.

I wonder what he meant by "botched" license....meaning they didn't get the rights to use show clips?
Bummer, as I'm loving the game with the sound replacement, but would like to see things polished/completed.

You would think that details such as using the games characters on the playfield and voices for audio would be set in stone before a game even starts to be designed.

Botched license eh?
Maybe they could get Kevin Kulek to help...

Stern just posted on Facebook last week that the code was being worked on.

Yeah.. so who do you believe...the random Pinside guy who owns TWD?

Or the horses' mouth?

My best guess (and this is just a guess) is Lyman would know what Lyman is working on. But I could be wrong

I had recently heard that Lyman had been taken off the game, but's it's even more disheartening to see public confirmation of this directly from the man himself. What a shame. I have no doubt that Lyman will eventually finish the code, but it sucks that Stern doesn't see it as a priority. This just further solidifies my decision to never buy a NIB game from them again.

What date is that Facebook post? Recent, or is that months old?

Where's iceman, the only reason he bought TWD was because Lyman was programming it.

I guess Steve Ritchie gets code priority for his games. Three years on ST and one year on TWD is ridiculous.

Normally these threads are just a bunch of "he said/she said" scenarios, but to see something coming from the mouth, err, fingertips of the actual employee involved is pretty damning. This is very unfortunate. I really wanted this machine, but I always wait until the game is complete. $5k is too much to risk on "hope".

I bought Twd
Like the theme
Like Borg
But Lyman was deciding factor

I'm glad he posted his frustration, might lead to him actually getting paid to do his job rather than spare time.

I don't see why he needs to be involved with developing the Spike system.

Why their top programmer wouldn't be involved in developing the software for their next generation system? Care to think that through?

Couple things to mention. One; we know TWD code is around the corner. We've seen it on sterns fb page, I've heard it from tourney players, and ive heard it from distributors. Secondly, and ,ore importantly, as mudflaps eluded to...we have no idea when this Facebook screenshot was taken. it could have been 6 mos ago when stern was working on spike system and TWD code felt like a ghost town.

So I'm calling BS til we see more concrete evidence and after we see what the update has to offer.

PS- even if it was posted 6 mos ago, it does suck that things like this happens to code updates. But who else is going to get the spike system working properly? For all we know they were gojng to put someone else on TWD code and Lyman said no he wants it and he'd do it after getting spike system.

Spike is a hardware system, LS is a software guy. I was not sure why LS needs to develop a hardware system (it's probably not his area of expertise).

Are you saying LS is developing the software that runs Spike? He's writing the computer language for Spike?

I will say I don't know how these things work, but LS is a pinball programmer not a hardware developer.

ST has been out a year longer than TWD and just got an update a month ago, so IMO it really makes sense that Stern prioritizes ST over TWD. Also ST is still in production and probably selling better than TWD, on Pinside more than twice as many people own ST/STLE than TWD/TWDLE.

Spike is the code name for the next hardware platform. Software runs on it. The hardware doesn't work by magic. So a ton of software had to be written to support the platform before game code can be written on it. Lyman probably needed to step in to assist since some of that work was probably behind.

I am not defending Stern for under delivering on Software, but many games do take much longer for them to complete than one year.

I will say, that some of the better sellers have better code, don't know if one thing has anything to do with the other, I mean if a game is not selling they may not go all out to develop the code.

I am only going by Pinside (owners) to get my numbers. But here are a few games I picked to illustrate that the better sellers may get better code (in ST's case that is not accurate since it sold well on sub par code, so maybe the better sellers get more code development time).

Here are the listed owners on Pinside (combined Pro/Premium/LE)

TAV 184
TWD 270
XM 312
IM 427
ST 599
Tron 605
Metallica 698
AcDc 892

It's legit. I know someone who spoke to Lyman VERY recently and was told the exact same thing. Lyman wanted to continue working on the code, but Stern pulled him off of it to work on other stuff. There may be an update coming out, but I got the impression that Lyman isn't even close to done with the game.

There is new code, and it is being Beta tested right now. Promise.

Screen shot was posted yesterday in the Where's the Code thread. So maybe 2 days old (4.16.2015ish) facebook post at the most..it might have been from the night before it was posted

So if there's is TWD code coming...it's not Lyman's

Pretty bold statement making a comment about one's employer like that. Dude's got cohones.

It does sound like other programmers are the ones doing the coding now.

Sad, really. I was considering picking up TWD shortly but if "da man" isn't working it forget it. Few comments:

1. Borg always seems to get screwed lately on unfinished or sloppy code.
2. Gary still doesn't get driving "customer satisfaction". He sold the games to disti's so his work is done in his eye. Shame, he still has that perspective. Holding out hope he sees the light.
3. Lowering expectations on any new game coming out from Stern from a "code" perspective. No way NIB. Disti's will be the ones hurt most by this.
4. What the hell does Lonnie do if they need Lyman for new Spike platform?

I for one am glad Lyman has not been working on TWD code, if it meant he wasn't polishing ACDC and Tron code to the highest-gloss humanly possible. Don't mean to imply that I don't feel TWD owners aren't due code, just that I prefer prioritizing his work by level of effort required and original release date of pin.

Sorry to say this but - I don't like the layout on TWD (horrible flow), and no amount of code changes will overcome that issue in my eyes. But at least one big code update is due the brave buyers of TWD to bring it up to an acceptable level.

Unless Lyman has a strict non-compete clause in his contract, he could probably walk at any time and be immediately employable by the competition. In my experience, people that don't have options don't make bold statements like that. People that do have options are more free to express their feelings, because they know that they have ultimate leverage.

FWIW, Steve Ritchie made similar statements about his disappointment with the status of the code on Star Trek a while back, and look what happened recently with the updated code for that pin.

ACDC and Tron do not need code updates. Both games play great and are as complete as any other game. It makes no sense for them to plod away on games with great code that are no longer being made when games in current production suck ass in the code department.

X 1000

I see you are new around here (1+ year pfffft!!), but Pinsiders have a long memory. And when an issue comes up that personally affects oneself, let's just say I have some disappointment and refusal to give up on the dream - GREAT CODE for TRON & ACDC. Both games left some things unpolished, and I would love to see Stern allow Lyman to finish these games and close the books on them.

I think this provides an excellent example of why you should not buy a game until you know the whole package, including the code, is at a point where you are happy with it. I have two sterns but only bought them after I knew I would be happy with them as they were not where they MIGHT be! I actually like TWD but it is really disappointing to see how they are handling this.

Interesting that he says botched license.

Lyman is a fantastic programmer and I hope he'll have some input with future TWD updates, but he's not the only programmer in the universe.

Mustang is awesome as-is, and Lyman didn't touch that one.

As with all things, let's chillax and see what the update brings.

Lyman is not saying in that post it's abandoned for ever. He said it was abondened at that time. Because Spike came.

With beta being tested right now and code being announced by Stern themselves, code got picked up again.

You can even see in papa videos from latest papa some changes already:
- skill shot zombie has more background and detail
- the kill count in the bonus now shows zombies falling down

Of course the game needs lots more so I'm very curious for the next update and would love to know the timeframe. My guess is soon

Huh?!? Ramp shots come back pretty quick, shots to the bash toys both come back pretty quick IMO...what's the issue for you? Bricking the super tight shots? I can see that one...I have a lot of trouble nailing the inner orbit on the left side of the prison, and the left orbit itself....but trust me there's plenty of flow there for the high level flow player... shot through the pops around the orbit and then a one-time to nail the right ramp is just as satisfying as nailing the left loop/warp ramp on STTNG/ST Pro... far bigger issue IMO is that crap feed out of the bottom of the pops...THAT is god-awful lol

Dig stacking three multiballs.. THIR-TEE-ZOMBIES

Agreed, flow is not a problem on this one. The complete lack of an entire mode is.

Did Lyman do it?

You made that clear..

The hardware for spike is already done obviously.. but making stuff RUN on it is software. Hardware doesn't run itself... they write drivers, libraries, and lots of utility code to make the PLATFORM easier to work with and drive lots of different elements.

For instance, maybe they need a driver to work with.. say.. a new display? Or a different type of motor..

Or to make it really easy for you... think of your computer. You have hardware, but you still needed an OS and drivers to make it so you could use it. Same thing here.

This is sickening! Can't believe I bought a TWDLE and modded it. I mean they didn't even put a light on the bicycle girl or the well walker and the code is total shit. it really is. We should start a new facebook page called "Stern Sucks Balls" Then we can post whatever we want.

I don't know. I just heard from a tester (fairly public pinball person with no reason to mislead or make up a story), that the new code is really good. This was totally unsolicited as well, they were talking about it on Tuesday, which I think is before all this stuff with Lyman was posted.

The game play flowchart would still be dictated by Lyman, likely, with others writing the code.
Perhaps more tweaks will be needed as common, but it still should be an update of improvement,
and maybe a bit of input from those "others", to enhance.
Id stay positive about it.

Lyman is working on the game actively.

He has a walking dead at home now.

I believe when he says 'abandoned' he means the period between November and when WWE shipped. I believe when he says botched license he means the actor VO fiasco. Stern has said that it's possible that we might see some cast vo someday but the license is pretty specific and limited.

It sucks, but he's one of their key guys and was needed to help get spike ready.

The game is getting code. Lyman is directly working on it. It's taking longer than it should. It will be awesome.

Patience is a virtue.

Lyman was not the only programmer on this machine. He had assist from Tanio Klyce and Mike Kyziva. Maybe these guys now finishing the code with previously made ideas.