Ninja Eclipse
Turner Pinball, 2023You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider pookycade.
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What I want to know is why do all these people announce their company with absolutely nothing to show. What happened to the days of companies coming out of stealth mode with product in hand ready to sell.
I am not paying any attention to any other company that tells me what they “are going to do” … maybe …. Eventually.
Quoted from ForceFlow:Did he learn nothing from the deeproot fiasco?
Apparently he learned at the foot of JPOP--every cabinet, leg, bracket, and bolt must be completely custom and proprietary.
Most software people think that all can be solved by software, and everything else is but trivial detail. Why pay for a coin door, you have software. Why make a good shooting machine, when great software animation is where it is at. And you can't trademark "Coin Door", but "PinPay" .... now thats genius.
Quoted from AFM95:My buddy just played it at the Expo. He said it is total garbage. I asked why and he replied, “it’s awful on all fronts. It’s like a home version, only $9,700.”
It looks sorta like what I imagined Greatwich might have delivered to TPF ..... if he was significatnly more talented and knew how to do anything with a computer other than take a sledge hammer to it. But yeah this is the definition of "Stern Pro quality" if by that statement one actually means "nothing like Stern Pro quality". Might want to get it as a collectors item. In 50 years when there are only 4 sold, 2 not in a landfill, you can probably make your money back.
Quoted from ForceFlow:To go as far to patent that is pointless.
The back side of translites are easily damaged. An open backbox offers no protection.
In a commercial setting, an open cabinet can be an easy way for someone to mess with a game. Not all locations have games up against a wall.
Lastly, every time someone tries putting all the boards in the lower cabinet, they figure out that it doesn't work, and move boards up into the backbox in the end.Yeah, but where is the mechanism? There's no key hole on the front or sides that I can see.
It's mounted on standoffs, the standoffs are on metal brackets, and the brackets are screwed to the playfield. It doesn't look like there is anything that moves.
No, but a lot of things are poorly thought out. A lot of good engineers already figured out what works and what doesn't.
At a glance, I pointed out a bunch of things that are problematic. Anyone who has moved or worked on games before would easily know they're problematic and why.Pin2k playfields had rails so you could set a playfield down while outside of a game, so it's not a new concept--just one that hasn't been employed much. Most rail systems on games used the rear edge/corners of the playfield, so that would force any supports to be somewhere in the inner area of the playfield. But at the rear third of the playfield doesn't generally have a whole lot of available space, and a floor support would take up some real estate.
Adding playfield supports like on ninja eclipse makes the playfield bigger than it needs to be. Shipping an assembled replacement playfield will be a challenge and costly. Traditional playfields can be packed in a much smaller crate. And saying that this won't need to happen is just a lack for foresight. Bally & Williams did it back in the day, and stern & JJP have done it much more recently.Well, they were doing all the wrong things at deeproot, and it seems some of the bad habits that were learned made their way over to Turner.
It’s so odd. They seem to have adopted the entire Deeproot approach which is in a nutshell: innovate a bunch of crap that didn’t need innovating and nobody cares about. It’s engineering for engineerings sake. You would think with all the vehement complaining in the DR thread that they would have got a clue. They should have also realized that people only care about game play and assets itself. It’s like they took every rule of building a successful pinball machine and said to themselves “let’s do the opposite”. And thru some further bizarre reasoning they think they have done such a stellar job that they can charge you for a spot in line AND charge you $3K more than a Stern Pro. It’s like mass delusion taken to level 11.
Quoted from Zambonilli:I wouldn't conflate weight and size though because you can solve each mutually exclusively and solve nuances to the same "moveability" problem. You can have a lighter pinball machine with the same size just using different materials like more aluminum, plastics or composites. Then you have the same look and feel but it is more moveable.
However, making pinball lighter mostly makes sense for home environments but isn't some of the point of their weight and size because they are going into rough environments like bars? Environments where they are going to be used harshly and can even be stolden. In addition, you also have play changes with smaller and lighter machines like nudging becomes a different skill to master.
There’s a reason Arcade 1 Ups are used only in a home environment and weigh as much of a cardboard box. Weight gives durability, much as my back would beg to differ on that point.
Quoted from Zambonilli:Occam's razor makes me think it's more a group of people that had poor mentoring and got over their skis.
If I have learned one thing in life, if the choice is between stupidity and conspiracy theory always choose stupidity, it’s the correct answer.
Imagine for a moment that having worked with Deeproot for a while one concluded “1) if not for the money scam they would have been successful 2) I can do this way better, way cheaper than they did because I’m a scrappy smart guy”.
I submit following that logic you would get this. You would innovate where no innovation was needed, you would generic your theme and art, you would riff on the already stupid that Deeproot did. If Blobert was your mentor you end up with this.
Clearly, they have probably learned this weekend: 1) the only missing piece WAS NOT money 2)no innovation was needed and 3) it’s the playfield stupid.
It’s too bad Zizzle doesn’t exist anymore. All the opportunity of reviewing their latest game “that’s a fizzle from Zizzle” are lost to history.
Quoted from dpadam450:Yea looks like the hardware is just dying. Cary said the same in his video, the flipper would just stop working and he thought it was a gameplay feature. The whole team worked at Deeproot for over 3 years each. Add +1 year working on Ninja. That equals 4 years x 4 people. Flippers straight up dying (video below). I also think it's telling that there were like 10 patents listed on Turners page as pending, 0 for Barrels of Fun. Proper focus = different outcomes.
Apparently one that after 1/2 decade of R&D still doesn't work. He dropped 50k day one to buy Deeproots physical assets, which should have included hardware.
He is pivoting to $8,500 with a coin door and taking away 3 playfield mechs/features. You can pre-order that version right now for $150, non-refundable reserve bid, if that is what you were hoping would change your mind to purchase.
Doubt the hardware is dying. More likely a software bug, but yeah surprising they didn't catch it earlier. You would think your flipper input would be interrupt driven, but perhaps not.
Put the price and the bad Deeproot feelings aside for a moment, did anyone find it a fun game ? Serious question. I mean in the videos the animations seemed well done and the playfield looked decent.
PMF - product market fit, they don't have it but can probably find it.
At $5k I suspect some people would find it a deal. Hard to know given Stern sells better at $6900. Could they swing $5k and still pay all their employees and keep the lights on ? Dunno.
$10K expected selling price:
-$1500 - original theme
-$1000 - unexpected cabinet
-$500 - no coin door
-$500 - odd backbox
-$1000 - lack of goodwill (bad legacy)
Yeah thats probably about right there.
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