Quoted from Roostking:

Why are all these people insistent on taking/spending millions of dollars trying to make a pinball machine and losing it all? Why don't they just go buy a pinball machine and invest the money somewhere else, or buy a Lamborghini or something?

Quoted from Mr68:

We need innovating and agile, good intentions and sincerity.

Quoted from EternitytoM83:

Maybe he's sincerely waiting for a few named insureds to bite the big one to provide startup funding for his pinball venture.

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Not part of the team, & glad I did not get on the Deeproot Pinball disaster. I will not be going to Texas until March 2024. Chris knows how to reach me if he wants. I get through my personal 2 year bankruptcy the end of October. At the end of the year I will likely get back into doing playfield production in association with a group with the finances. [quoted image]

Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

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Quoted from homebrood:

Yeah I hear ya, hey all you folks buying every game on top of the 59 you already have, how about, with all your money, and good fortune, giving something back, and using it to help others charitably? People are starving, people are dying or like me some people only have a dozen or so games! How about Like buying me a game or two, would be a good place to start your pholantrhopy!

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

This is shaping up to be somewhere between punny factory and Food Truck.

Quoted from Mr68:

Yeah, I can mostly agree with that. But while attending Jpop's bankruptcy, my attorney whispered to me of how bankruptcy courts are detailed orientated and very punitive if anyone is caught lying or misrepresenting even the smallest thing.
And I'll take the courts position over this, amature rush to judgment by connecting ambiguous dots.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

They do not have to start somewhere.
They can call it a day and go away.

Quoted from TreyBo69:

The funny thing is though, it’s not a start. This is deeproot 2.0, which is Zidware 3.0

Quoted from yancy:

Quick everyone, buy stock in Shiner Bock.

Quoted from TAVsPlace:

Has anyone heard any updates from Turner? Played their game at TPF and it wasn’t too bad.

Quoted from TAVsPlace:

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Quoted from DS_Nadine:

I think their first showing was pretty humble and so was the acceptance here (despite the deeproot mess they‘re building on). For ending all speculation alone it was worth showing off their game early.
But you only get so much first impressions. If they decide to now keep the machine under wraps until it‘s ready, it‘s ok for me.

Quoted from supermoot:

This machine is racist af

Quoted from punkin:

Everyone who's played it so far has said it's a fun game? Don't get the turd bit. If it's too exe for you or not to your liking move on.

Quoted from pookycade:

It looks sorta like what I imagined Greatwich might have delivered to TPF ..... if he was significatnly more talented and knew how to do anything with a computer other than take a sledge hammer to it. But yeah this is the definition of "Stern Pro quality" if by that statement one actually means "nothing like Stern Pro quality". Might want to get it as a collectors item. In 50 years when there are only 4 sold, 2 not in a landfill, you can probably make your money back.

Quoted from ForceFlow:

Bad ideas:
Legs!
[quoted image]
Don't do proprietary legs. I had allied leisure games, and unfortunately those are non-standard, which are impossible to source. I couldn't just slap on a set of standard pinball legs--the bolt holes were different.
A new game with weird legs is inconvenient. What happens when these legs stop being produced? You're SOL if something happens to your original legs.
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The bolts are different than every other pinball machine on the planet, so that means another tool just for this game needs to be carried around. Plus it's always a bad idea for a heavy bolt that would see frequent use with a small allen key hole; that thing is going to strip out very easily. I know AP uses allen key bolts, but I always thought that was a bad idea--but at least you can use a wrench to get the bolt out (it has ridge lines) if you do encounter that problem. That's not an option with the bolts on ninja eclipse.
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All those edges, corners, and crevices on the legs? bad idea. Those are injuries waiting to happen, not to mention could potentially hook on things, like clothes, bags, and purses. Plus kids with tiny fingers who like to explore could get stuck. Commercial games are typically free of anything goofy like that for those reasons.

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Their team is clearly getting A LOT of feedback. And it sounds like they're receiving it constructively. I don't know who Chris has involved in decision making and strategy to date. One assumes he talks with a range of people. However, to make some of the choices he has and be blindsided by the reaction would suggest not all of the right voices are in the room.
I don't know jack about pins other than playing them. I can't look at photos like ForceFlow and point out potential problems with xyz. So I'm definitely not a guy to offer valuable advice on how and where to pivot. But my hope is that Chris can identify trusted experts in the field who can and consults with them hard.
If sufficient time, money, and patience, there's probably a different way forward to some kind of viability. But it feels like things will have to look very different from what has been shown thus far for that to happen.

Quoted from Zambonilli:

Wouldn't their pin then be a loss leader to make a sale on their transaction processing? 9k is not a loss leader. Why go through all the time/$ to change things from a standard pinball machine and make it cost more if their goal is only payment processing? Why would you only support NFC and not other forms of digital payment? Where are their retrofit kits for existing machines to get them on their payment platform?
Occam's razor makes me think it's more a group of people that had poor mentoring and got over their skis. But :shrug: who knows. I just like seeing people try new things and learning from all the vets why something has been done a certain way forever. Then thinking about how you could solve real problems in pinball.

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

It srsly saddens me that this completely turned to be a shitshow again, without one actual snippet of gameplay footage.

Quoted from JodyG:

You should know by now, DS_Nadine almost always takes the most cringe side of any argument...then puts you on ignore so you can't downvote them any more.

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

I‘d word it less bold but I approve. XD

Quoted from AFM95:

I understand what you mean. However, I wasn’t reading all of your posts. I was specifically responding to a post where you said, “It srsly saddens me that this completely turned to be a shitshow again, without one actual snippet of gameplay footage.”
To me, it looked like you wanted to see game play footage of the actually game, which I tried helping by finding a video on YouTube for you. If there was one from the Expo, I would have linked it.
It was a misunderstanding - let’s move on.

Quoted from jcg9998:

I find it hard to believe that there are actually people on this site who are calling these guys incompetent. I'd really love to have grown up in these people's circles. I don't care for the theme either, but that game is an amazing first effort. Say what you want about not liking their innovation and/or the price . The point is that there is actually "Innovation" in these games. Unlike other companies producing the same stuff over and over again. I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with people who say to every new idea.. "Nobody asked for..." Right... well nobody asked for flippers in 1947. Nobody asked for solid state. Nobody asked for multi-ball. Nobody asked for ramps, nobody asked for spinners... nobody asked for Dot Matrix or LCD screens.... I could go on....
I think they have good ideas. I think the Pinbar is a great idea as well. Just because a con artist invented it doesn't mean it's a bad idea. It's thanks to all the "Nobody asked for" people that we don't have video screens by the flippers where they belong. Putting information right in front of your face is a great idea... if you disagree with this... I say to you... "Well... that's like your opinion... man... and your opinion sucks"...

Quoted from dpadam450:

For the guy above that's super psyched. They aren't incompetent in tech engineering, they are incompetent in business. Pure narcissism and egotism. "For those who aren't ready for slimmer cabinet". The problem is WE just aren't ready. We simply don't understand. After 30 hours of people rejecting the slim cab, hes now stating we just don't know any better. And blaming me, Stern home edition games and zizzle for putting a bad reputation on slim design. No honesty here. That's 100% on you for going forward to the biggest expo and trying to sell a slim cab for 10k when Stern home editions just sold for $4,999. For 30 hours people said this will not sell at 9,999. So his take, is no, you guys don't do see it. We saw it. Don't talk down to people. I saw he deleted his YT comment so here is the original.
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Quoted from gdonovan:

Oh no as someone of German descent I picked my word with care.
You refuse to display any skepticism and encourage others to be the same despite past history and the guys utterly sleazy presentation, attitude and crap product.
schadenfreude.
The stupid should hurt good and hard.

Quoted from TreyBo69:

Having the audacity to ask that much for that thing is deserving of some trash talk

Quoted from ZNET:

Turner Pinball thread summary about Ninja Eclipse thus far includes some twists and several turns.
*The price is a Turn off.
*The marketplace demands much greater desirability where the value of existing collections are enduring a downTurn.
*The app activation is a dubious way to Turn the game on.
*The perception of innovation is a misplaced Turning point.
*Nobody viewing the game initially noticed the Turntable.
*Operators won't be buying this game because there exists no prospect of reTurnables.
*Offering an arcade version with a coin door, standard cabinet and glass was a Turnaround.
*The game is a sleeper, but not for playing while awake and instead for the nocTurnal.
*The founder presents himself as open to feedback, while simultaneously exhibiting an aura that is somewhat taciTurn.
*Based on this launch, Turner Pinball might be seeing some employment Turnover.

Quoted from ZNET:

The neutrality of the disc's anemic design is emblematic of a novice. A pinball enthusiast would know that 1972 Bally Fireball's rotating disc has elevations which alter the ball's direction. Experience matters.

Quoted from musketd:

Would love some more reviews on this from people that played it; it looks pretty neat

Quoted from TroyS:

I saw them and played the pin at expo.
With hopes they are in a growth mindset they will need to pivot. For the cost I know I took a step back not because I did not want to give it a try but the thought of what else I could buy for the same amount.
I could not get over the lack of shooter rod, size of the cab and then the game play. For me it crashed twice while playing and playfield elements seemed not as high quality of other makers and titles.
My hope is that during TPF they improve the game and change my perception of their pins and future of the company.

Quoted from ZNET:

Is anyone in this thread intrigued by Ninja Eclipse as a theme? To me, it seems so "corporate decision" in nature. It's got:
1) conquests of warlords;
2) ninja assassins; and
3) supernatural legend.
"Guys aged 40 to 65 or thereabouts, the target demographic for a $10K pinball machine, surely love that stuff, " declared the decision-maker(s) sitting around the Turner Pinball conference room table (likely just Chris Turner talking to himself).
The main problem, in my opinion, is that it's someone else's fiction. It's an unfamiliar story that the player has to learn. There's no pregame connection to the theme whatsoever.
Plus, most original themes really need one key ingredient which Ninja Eclipse lacks: humor.
Even Food Truck as a theme garnered some interest because enthusiasts could imagine humor in its execution. Whoa Nellie had humor. GTF attempted to incorporate humor. Not so with Ninja Eclipse, which takes itself seriously.
Turner Pinball would have generated more interest with a game entitled: White Van Speakers. This is because the buying demographic can relate to that theme. It's the player's life experience that matters most to theme selection.
During gameplay, achieve goals and trade those muddy-sounding scam speakers up to better speakers with great high end sonics, all the way up to wizard-bass-thumping speakers. With each achievement, have the game actually improve the audio quality so that the player is rewarded audibly.
As a generic theme, Ninja Eclipse wrongly presumes that the pinballl community is attracted to stereotypical male motifs and nothing more. In actuality, good theme selection ought to concentrate on the primal connection and the emotional response attendant to the theme. Chose such a theme and add some humor. Sci-fi, horror, Dad music, whatever. Just indulge us with some comedy. Apart from the tournament players perhaps, I suspect that most enthusiasts and collectors are ultimately in this hobby for the laughs.
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Quoted from Haymaker:

Ninja eclipse has more features and mechs and stuff but it feels like a toy when you play it. The stern home models feel like a real pinball machine. Especially if we're talking jp home, it's not even a challenge even at the same price. The Stern all day. Even games like Star wars home are pretty good. At 4k vs 10k its absurdly easy to pick the stern

Quoted from TAVsPlace:

Anyone heard any updates on Ninja Eclipse? Maybe at TPF?

Quoted from iceman44:Well. Despite all the BS I hope they succeed.
Without Little Bobby Dickstein.
Bad associations. Good intentions.

Quoted from ZNET:

I get it. You think that the Turner Pinball name choice was not motivated in any way by Chris Turner's ego.
How about his original company, Turner Logic? Hmmm. . .I wonder where Chris came up with that name. Is it an homage to Ted Turner? How about Tina Turner?
Keep digging in. You're deep into the hole of your untenable argument. Calling me "dumb" doesn't enhance your illogical position.