(Topic ID: 319325)

Turner Pinball?

By DBLM

1 year ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 827 posts
  • 167 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 52 days ago by DS_Nadine
  • Topic is favorited by 57 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

Screenshot_20240102_224147_Google (resized).jpg
Screenshot_20231228_212026_Google (resized).jpg
Screenshot_20231031_210645_Google (resized).jpg
Screenshot_20231031_211235_Chrome (resized).jpg
388933612_6841453769275147_6292071838947475755_n (resized).jpg
so youre telling me (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
gify.gif
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
Chaw-chee-chaw.gif
20231024_172209 (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
batman-ok.gif

Topic index (key posts)

2 key posts have been marked in this topic (Show topic index)

There are 827 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 17.
#251 11 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I think you have far too much confidence in what the process really was. The court’s job there is to grt the highest return on the assets for the trust… not play perry mason and uncover layers of relationships. They would do due diligence to ensure turner was their own, the bid made sense and that they were a competent bidder. Not a whole lot more.

Yeah, I can mostly agree with that. But while attending Jpop's bankruptcy, my attorney whispered to me of how bankruptcy courts are detailed orientated and very punitive if anyone is caught lying or misrepresenting even the smallest thing.

And I'll take the court's position over this, amature rush to judgment by connecting ambiguous dots.

#252 11 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Yeah, I can mostly agree with that. But while attending Jpop's bankruptcy, my attorney whispered to me of how bankruptcy courts are detailed orientated and very punitive if anyone is caught lying or misrepresenting even the smallest thing.
And I'll take the courts position over this, amature rush to judgment by connecting ambiguous dots.

My good sir, we here on pinside are professional rush to judgementers!

#253 11 months ago
Quoted from Miguel351:

I think the main reason so many people are hesitant with TP, talking crap about them, or just completely not interested whatsoever with anything they'll ever produce and therefore don't want them to enter the pinball world has less to do with the fact that they bought up all the DR stuff and are starting a new company from DR's ashes, but with the fact that we don't technically know(and probably never will know) how much he was part and parcel to the whole scam. RM picked him and his company for a reason, they weren't just a random hire.
Because we don't fully know the true nature of the DR/TL relationship, some are left with the stance of: If he was in on it, or knew about it in any way, shape, or form, I want nothing to do with him, his company, or any goods they may or may not ever produce.
It's a fair stance.

Yup. It’s tainted. Can’t be untainted. Should just change the company name to Taint Pinball.

#254 11 months ago

Also saying "well Haggis/Spooky did it" is the equivalent of someone holding up a snowball during a climate change debate. It's not that boutique pinball can't succeed, but the odds are heavily stacked against them as evidenced by the dozens of companies that failed vs the small handful that did push through. (Worth keeping in mind JJP went bankrupt and was bailed out by a billionaire who liked pinball)

#255 11 months ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

I want GWJ on the Turner team. This thread would become 1000% better.

No you don't! Then you only get breadcrumbs

#256 11 months ago

Turner was the only person to put in an offer for the remaining pinball assets and ip. Anyone could have offered a higher bid if they thought Chris was getting away with a steal due to inside info. The list of what he got for that (I believe) $50k is a matter of public / court record.

Add that to the million in his winning bid for the insurance policies (also the only bid) and no one has sent more money to the trustee towards recouping losses than has Turner. So you'd think anyone hand wringing over the exploited little old ladies would be throwing this guy a parade.

#257 11 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Also saying "well Haggis/Spooky did it" is the equivalent of someone holding up a snowball during a climate change debate. It's not that boutique pinball can't succeed, but the odds are heavily stacked against them as evidenced by the dozens of companies that failed vs the small handful that did push through. (Worth keeping in mind JJP went bankrupt and was bailed out by a billionaire who liked pinball)

Haggis is somewhat of a joke but certain people can't see past their blind loyalty to their country. They broke like all their promises and games barely trickle out of that place. Nice people and great games, but Haggis would not be really on any of my lists of pinball achievers. How are they even still in business? They have to be so far into the red at this point. Kudos to them for sticking with it, but if any current "manufacturer" was on the brink of having to throw in the towel, my money would be on them. Even if somehow they do succeed and come out with game number 3 or more, they did it by the skin of their teeth and a bunch of luck. They've done better than many boutiques but I would hesitate to use them as an example for how one can be successful.

#258 11 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Haggis is somewhat of a joke but certain people can't see past their blind loyalty to their country. They broke like all their promises and games barely trickle out of that place. Nice people and great games, but Haggis would not be really on any of my lists of pinball achievers. How are they even still in business? They have to be so far into the red at this point. Kudos to them for sticking with it, but if any current "manufacturer" was on the brink of having to throw in the towel, my money would be on them. Even if somehow they do succeed and come out with game number 3 or more, they did it by the skin of their teeth and a bunch of luck. They've done better than many boutiques but I would hesitate to use them as an example for how one can be successful.

I'll be chatting with Damian Hartin and Chris Turner at TPF in a couple of days. Not that I'm anybody special but they're putting themselves out to the public so why not.

#259 11 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I think you have far too much confidence in what the process really was. The court’s job there is to grt the highest return on the assets for the trust… not play perry mason and uncover layers of relationships. They would do due diligence to ensure turner was their own, the bid made sense and that they were a competent bidder. Not a whole lot more.

I actually voiced concern to one of the bankruptcy lawyers (Pullman) about the potential conflict of interest during the sale process... Not to say “stop this immediately!” but to make sure they were aware of the relationships. Like you said, they seemed more interested in making a sale and moving on than they were about whether there was anything afoot.

On the one hand, I understand them not having the time to go soliciting for more bidders. But on the other hand, it still seemed lazy to me not to shop around for a higher potential return on the sale of the assets.

It reminded me of one of Lowe’s comments in these hearings about the “thousands of bankruptcy” cases he’s seen in his career. It had an air of “I don’t have time to be diligent on all of them,” and that rubbed me the wrong way.

Since it’s relevant to the discussion, here’s the response I got from Pullman. Nobody ever filed a formal objection.. if I remember right there was an attorney who presented a pretty disjointed and sloppy objection to the sale but it didn’t go over very well.

“Thank you for the note. I represent the Chapter 7 Trustee, Mr. J. Patrick Lowe, for the estate of Policy Services, Inc. and the related deeproot entities.

We are aware of Mr. Turner’s prior involvement with deeproot by providing IT and computer software related services as an independent contractor. If there is more to Mr. Turner’s relationship with deeproot than that, we would like to know what it may be. You will see in the purchase agreement that Mr. Turner discloses the prior relationship and affirms that Mr. Mueller has no interest in the TuYo entity or offer. If this representation is inaccurate, I do need to know the basis of the inaccuracy.

The bankruptcy court procedure allows for objections to the sale. Objections must be filed by April 4. If you or your sources believe that Mr. Turner’s bid should be disqualified because of his prior relationship to deeproot, the correct process is to file an objection.

If you know of anyone else that is willing to purchase the life insurance policies and thereby assume the obligation to make the premium payments on terms better than what TuYo has offered, we would be happy to entertain their offer.

You are welcome to call me at the phone number below if you have any questions or other concerns.”

#260 11 months ago

And my follow up shortly thereafter:

“ Mr. Pulman, thank you for the response! I will pass this information along to this community and suggest one of the folks with the full info consider filing a proper objection, as you suggested, if they feel strongly enough to do so.

One additional detail of possible interest to you is that the portfolio on TurnerLogic's website has been at some point modified to remove references to deeproot Funds. If you compare the current portfolio (Link #1) with the web archived version (Link #2) you can see that it did exist at one time and was removed. Again, just adds to the suspiciousness. It is possible that it was removed from the website to distance Turner from deeproot after the SEC case broke. I can understand removing it for PR reasons but would have expected to see it disclosed more directly by TuYo in the purchase agreements.

Current: https://turnerlogic.com/portfolio/
Archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20170609173707/http://turnerlogic.com/portfolio/

I do recognize that this is all likely moot if there are no other prospective bidders. As you probably expected, I don't have any better options than TuYo to suggest. I do feel better having reached out to you with these concerns rather than just keeping them unvoiced, though, so I appreciate your time and will try not to take any more of it.

Thanks”

#261 11 months ago

David Fix talked publicly multiple times last year about wanting to acquire the deeproot pinball IP and assets. Work from multiple former deeproot employees who landed at American was included in the package that was made available to the highest bidder. No one except Turner submitted a bid.

Quoted from JStoltz:

On the one hand, I understand them not having the time to go soliciting for more bidders. But on the other hand, it still seemed lazy to me not to shop around for a higher potential return on the sale of the assets.

#262 11 months ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

David Fix talked publicly multiple times last year about wanting to acquire the deeproot pinball IP and assets. Work from multiple former deeproot employees who landed at American was included in the package that was made available to the highest bidder. No one except Turner submitted a bid.

Yep, there’s no arguing with it. He won with an unopposed bid through the proper legal channels.

-1
#263 11 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

I guess it's because saying "patently untrue" to what I wrote doesn't make sense. If you just wanted to say, "well Haggis did it"...say that when I ask you why did you bring up Haggis, not telling me to re-read a two word response.

Everyone else got what he meant.

Because it is completely obvious.

And no other interpretation possible.

#264 11 months ago
Quoted from JStoltz:

Yep, there’s no arguing with it. He won with an unopposed bid through the proper legal channels.

I was just saying it would not appear there was a better opportunity to get more money for the deeproot stuff. If AP wasn't interested in taking a $55k flier, who would be?

#265 11 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Haggis is somewhat of a joke but certain people can't see past their blind loyalty to their country. They broke like all their promises and games barely trickle out of that place. Nice people and great games, but Haggis would not be really on any of my lists of pinball achievers. How are they even still in business? They have to be so far into the red at this point. Kudos to them for sticking with it, but if any current "manufacturer" was on the brink of having to throw in the towel, my money would be on them. Even if somehow they do succeed and come out with game number 3 or more, they did it by the skin of their teeth and a bunch of luck. They've done better than many boutiques but I would hesitate to use them as an example for how one can be successful.

They were clearly overambiguous and on top came covid, wich makes it a miracle they survived that delay with running costs, but what they managed to accomplish under these circumstances is far from a joke.

#266 11 months ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

I was just saying it would not appear there was a better opportunity to get more money for the deeproot stuff. If AP wasn't interested in taking a $55k flier, who would be?

Oh, the actual deeproot pinball assets? You won’t hear an argument from me on that… those don’t really bother me at all. (Edit: I see now, I probably shouldn’t have used the blanket term “assets” in my post. My bad.)

I was just focused on the sale of the policies… I was making an assumption (not knowing the life policy speculation industry) that stuff like this is somewhat common for “investment companies” that go bankrupt. Figured there would be some companies out there who specifically target policies like these in bankruptcy sales.

#267 11 months ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

They were clearly overambiguous and on top came covid, wich makes it a miracle they survived that delay with running costs, but what they managed to accomplish under these circumstances is far from a joke.

I don't necessarily disagree, thats why I gave them respect for sticking with it.

#268 11 months ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

David Fix talked publicly multiple times last year about wanting to acquire the deeproot pinball IP and assets. Work from multiple former deeproot employees who landed at American was included in the package that was made available to the highest bidder. No one except Turner submitted a bid.

Yes, he was the legal winner of a toxic pile. That doesn't absolve the goods of their toxic history.

#269 11 months ago

#270 11 months ago

That font really is brutal, otherwise looks decent.

#271 11 months ago

Well done team. Onwards and upwards.

#272 11 months ago

The homebrew section has games that look and play better than that....

#273 11 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:The homebrew section has games that look and play better than that....

Gotta start somewhere, it's easier to tear things down than it is to build them.

Your rudemenss does not show you in a good light.

#274 11 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

The homebrew section has games that look and play better than that....

wow .... so just guessing that you have been burned by a start up somewhere down the road ?

still did it faster than Deeproot had done !

#275 11 months ago

What is the deal with scoops that everyone loves? Just can't wrap my head around them being any fun.

#276 11 months ago

Hopefullly they get some good constructive feedback at TPF.

#277 11 months ago
Quoted from punkin:

Gotta start somewhere, it's easier to tear things down than it is to build them.
Your rudemenss does not show you in a good light.

I don't give a shit

I build games too. It's not hard to screw shit to wood and wire it up. (And feel free to say it looks bad, I don't take it personally)

936CE40B-BEBE-44A3-ABE2-3301369429C6 (resized).jpeg936CE40B-BEBE-44A3-ABE2-3301369429C6 (resized).jpegezgif-5-9193c11d20.gifezgif-5-9193c11d20.gif
#278 11 months ago

I would not be so rude. Good on you for having a hobby and enjoying yourself.

There's no need to put others down who are trying to do the same thing though.

I know you say you don't give a shit about being part of a community, but hopefully you'll see the world and your place in it in a better light one day soon.

#279 11 months ago
Quoted from punkin:

I would not be so rude. Good on you for having a hobby and enjoying yourself.
There's no need to put others down who are trying to do the same thing though.
I know you say you don't give a shit about being part of a community, but hopefully you'll see the world and your place in it in a better light one day soon.

If he approached it as a homebrewer, I wouldn't say anything. This guy is pretending to be a business. They can handle me saying that the game is barely past the initial flipping stage, because that's accurate.

#280 11 months ago
Quoted from punkin:

Gotta start somewhere, it's easier to tear things down than it is to build them.
Your rudemenss does not show you in a good light.

They do not have to start somewhere.

They can call it a day and go away.

#281 11 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

If he approached it as a homebrewer, I wouldn't say anything. This guy is pretending to be a business. They can handle me saying that the game is barely past the initial flipping stage, because that's accurate.

He is not pretending to be anything. He has started a business and this is his first step. It's onwards and upwards from here.

I'm sure they realise it's barley past the flipping stage, but he said he would take it in whatever stage it was up to at the time.

Seems like he's keeping his word, despite people being rude while hiding behind a keyboard.

#282 11 months ago

I’m not hiding behind a keyboard, anyone is free to find me. It’s really not that hard. Ask me and I’ll give you my phone number lol.

He’s pretending like he’s actually going to make a commercial product anyone would want. Like what the hell are you guys seeing that is like “oh this guy seems like he could design a fun game and actually build them in mass”

What playfield ideas do you see that is so clever? A scoop that shots into another scoop that shoots at…nothing in particular?

If you guys want to praise him for doing less than what some homebrewers do, by all means. I’ll remain skeptical of this “business”.

#283 11 months ago

It's a start buddy. Noone ever said their first effort was a world beater FFS.

#284 11 months ago

The funny thing is though, it’s not a start. This is deeproot 2.0, which is Zidware 3.0

-1
#285 11 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

The funny thing is though, it’s not a start. This is deeproot 2.0, which is Zidware 3.0

No, this is Turner pinball 1.

#286 11 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

I don't give a shit
I build games too. It's not hard to screw shit to wood and wire it up. (And feel free to say it looks bad, I don't take it personally)[quoted image][quoted image]

I love hot tip

#287 11 months ago
Quoted from denoument:

I love hot tip

Now you just gotta try it out with multiball, a captive ball with a latching lock, trance music, and trippy light shows written while I was on mushrooms. (Not that I think it’s great, but I had fun making it)

#288 11 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

They do not have to start somewhere.
They can call it a day and go away.

LMAO!

#289 11 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

The funny thing is though, it’s not a start. This is deeproot 2.0, which is Zidware 3.0

Speaking of JPOP, he sure has disappeared. I think Turner said he wasnt working with him, wonder if that has changed?

#290 11 months ago
Quoted from yancy:

What is the deal with scoops that everyone loves? Just can't wrap my head around them being any fun.

Yo Dawg (resized).pngYo Dawg (resized).png

#291 11 months ago

"This guy is pretending to be a business."

Personal opinions on Turner aside, most businesses were and still are built in garages. It's a decent start. It's a video of a working game prototype. Everything in the world was built from an idea. I sucked when I bought my first skateboard and guitar. I think jumping to conclusions that you can't improve beyond a prototype is what you have to open your mind up to. Look at the wright brothers first plane designs. Effort and time leads to improvement.

I'm not convinced Turner is the biggest thing that will succeed, but just like my game, you do have to acknowledge what is in front of your eyes. Looks like hes got a decent artist. Working operating system that triggers solenoids. As American Pinball bullet pointed boldly on Galactic that they have "Wireform Ramps", he has them too. I'd bet he does make a full working game at some point. Will it sell, be trusted, price makes sense, who knows but I think he is on the path to make a game which is the first step to consider the business further. My critique is that competing with Stern Pro models/pricing is such a hard business sales pitch. And selling higher price than that regardless of quality and features is even worse. Agree, he's not a business just yet and it's a lot of work and risk.

#292 11 months ago

I’ll stop being negative. He’s got the uphill climb, I’m just a nerd on the internet.

#293 11 months ago

Surprised to see that thing flipping actually after the video of that test bench whitewood only like a week ago.

Turners in this weird space of being apparently very open about progress, which I like - but is very different from every other company building pins right now. And then add in weird baggage not just with the ashes of DR and JPop blowing in the wind, but lingering questions about insider knowledge that will never be answered. I don’t think rm is involved at all at this point.

If they can succeed somehow producing games, I don’t think the baggage will bring them down. I do think it’s likely the money runs out before return income would be able to support the company — and that’s IF they can get to manufacturing. No idea what kind of bankroll turner has..

I always enjoy watching pin build progress so I support turner continuing to show early design stuff… I don’t see a reason to be negative about that right now.

#294 11 months ago
ezgif.com-add-text.gifezgif.com-add-text.gif
#295 11 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

I’ll stop being negative. He’s got the uphill climb, I’m just a nerd on the internet.

WideeyedBlueBeetle-size_restricted.gifWideeyedBlueBeetle-size_restricted.gif

Good for you bud. Restored my faith in your culture.

#296 11 months ago

Looks like it shoots pretty good!

Where the spinner is they should add another flipper and move the spinner up the orbit imho.

#297 11 months ago

Left flipper looks really weak or am I seeing things?

#298 11 months ago

I like the odd placement of the pops.
I don't like the non-standard rails (leftover DR parts?)
The playfield and toys leave a lot to be desired considering where the bar is set today.
Hoping this is just a testing of the waters and the final product will be a step above this.

#299 11 months ago

As others have said good on Turner for giving it a go and living his dream - everyone has to start somewhere. Until he takes money and misses long blown out manufacturing dates he deserves a chance to show what he could do.

What did Deeproot or Jpop achieve in there years of designing and bragging - not much.

Hopefully he learns from showing the game, peoples feedback and makes adjustments to then have a even better shooting game.

#300 11 months ago

If he ever gets anywhere with it, I still think he should do something, whatever it is, for anyone documented that lost money as a customer. He got 1 million worth of stolen goods for $50k. You have to do good by the people that help you out, even if its indirect.

There are 827 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 17.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/turner-pinball/page/6?hl=jstoltz and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.