(Topic ID: 319325)

Turner Pinball?

By DBLM

1 year ago


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#501 4 months ago
Quoted from natgreystar:

I seriously encourage anyone interested in this machine to do some background research into the founder. He is very litigious so all I'll say is this is a startup bro with a shady history and all of his startups just vanished. If you thought BoF seemed sketchy you should be running from this company. I looked deep into background here and I do not believe they care or know anything about pinball. I saw the machine in person and it looks like a children's at home pinball toy. It's not good, look at that build and those LEDs. If this company fails you can bet this will all be abandoned and you'll be out money. I'll leave this here and that's all I'm saying. Do the research. This isn't a pinball guy this is a shark tank capitalist who I wouldn't trust.

We know the background. Well chronicled

#502 4 months ago

This guy has changed so many things that never needed to be redesigned. Surprised the balls are still round.

#503 4 months ago

Stated today at the presentation that based on feedback regarding the cabinet looking like a home pin or Zizzle that they would offer an "arcade" version in a standard cabinet with a coin door for $8400ish.

It is less costly for them to use standard glass and a standard cabinet... you lose little and gain a lot!

20231020_160359 (resized).jpg20231020_160359 (resized).jpg
#504 4 months ago
Quoted from spinout:

Stated today at the presentation that based on feedback regarding the cabinet looking like a home pin or Zizzle that they would offer an "arcade" version in a standard cabinet with a coin door for $8400ish.
It is less costly for them to use standard glass and a standard cabinet... you lose little and gain a lot!
[quoted image]

That is a nice save. Change the 3 biggest complaints: Cost, coin door, and cabinet all while making it sound like it’s merely an available option.

I guess the next question will be what about the $150 to put your name on a list…

#505 4 months ago
Quoted from spinout:

Stated today at the presentation that based on feedback regarding the cabinet looking like a home pin or Zizzle that they would offer an "arcade" version in a standard cabinet with a coin door for $8400ish.
It is less costly for them to use standard glass and a standard cabinet... you lose little and gain a lot!

That tells a little too much about their decision making....

It tells me that they looked at the cost of using a standard Stern style cabinet and said, "Nah, let's make one that's completely custom and unique, built only for us. We've got plenty of profit margin under our target price of $9777 to do that."

Or....

"Crap, we need to lower our price and change our cabinet style. Quick, do both!"

Kinda confirms my thought that they WAYYY overthought things in development and are thinking way too pie-in-the-sky about all their innovations and how much money they're going to make selling all these games.

Again, I will state: they should have started out with a game/build style that almost completely mimics a Stern Pro/Premium. Then on the next game, start introducing all your innovations. Let the first game stand on its own as far as art package and gameplay, and if it's good enough that people love it, your second game will already have a fan-base ready to purchase and you didn't have to overspend on your first title just to try and "disrupt" the entire pinball industry.

#506 4 months ago
Quoted from spinout:

It is less costly for them to use standard glass and a standard cabinet

This just keeps getting dumber.
Why would you change to what they have if it wasn't cheaper?
If you somehow thought your payment system was perfect and there was no need for a coin door, just use a standard cabinet with no coin door.

#507 4 months ago

I think the idea of making the bottom cab smaller - since there‘s nearly nothing left in there - is a smart move. Folded down this one will fit into most trunks.

We don‘t know what that App will be, so if only the operater uses it to manage payment methods and the actual user just holds its watch to the machine to pay, this is absolutely fine and overdue.

BUT it definately has to have Buttons somewhere for the service menue, so you can operate the machine when the app is long gone. - If that is not a given I‘m out.

Other then that the game looks to have good theme integration and is relatively packend and has actual molds. 10k is a lot but who thinks this has to be under 4k definately shouldn‘t do a job involving numbers.

24
#508 4 months ago

People don’t want terrible generic “70s home pin” themes.

People don’t want 70s home pin cabinets.

People don’t want to pay $8400/$9777 for something that pales in comparison to a $7,000 stern pro in every single way.

There is simple no market for this. They should call it a day now, enjoy their prototypes in their game rooms, and we can all pretend this never happened.

It’s best for everybody.

#510 4 months ago

Ooofa.....Pretty small turnout.

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#511 4 months ago

It's a long watch but I'm doing some similar things to Turner. If you don't have time to watch, the only important thing (and it' confusing to me) is that the model shown at expo is still moving forward at $9,999. It's considered premium.

Based on feedback, he wants to offer a version with a coin door and standard lock-down bar and standard glass for $8,627 but he is also removing ball locks and "a couple other playfield features". So for $8,477+150 I'm not sure what you will get, but it sounds like less than a stern pro(?)

Have no faith unfortunately. The feedback was, price this better. Not remove gameplay features which is what is holding him up at the moment. To get a coin door, you have to get an inferior game? So end of day the product we critiqued yesterday is still $9,999. Nothing changed.

#512 4 months ago

Ask them if the game will have quickstep solenoids.

#513 4 months ago
Quoted from dpadam450:

It's a long watch but I'm doing some similar things to Turner. If you don't have time to watch, the only important thing (and it' confusing to me) is that the model shown at expo is still moving forward at $9,999. It's considered premium.
Based on feedback, he wants to offer a version with a coin door and standard lock-down bar and standard glass for $8,627 but he is also removing ball locks and "a couple other playfield features". So for $8,477+150 I'm not sure what you will get, but it sounds like less than a stern pro(?)
Have no faith unfortunately. The feedback was, price this better. Not remove gameplay features which is what is holding him up at the moment. To get a coin door, you have to get an inferior game? So end of day the product we critiqued yesterday is still $9,999. Nothing changed.

If „bigger“ is better value it‘s a perception problem. Their System is mostly pretty neat, I see no problem there.

Problems are as said system menue only via app, necessity for payment app, if you just prefer the games to be similar looking (wich is fine of course).
I think electronic payment is great, but 1. you don‘t want it to be a hurlde (why not just choose amount of credits you want to purchase on the pin and hold your apple watch to the apron with no extra app?) and 2. even if you want to use the app it‘d be only for pinball and the location propably has lot of other redemption and arcade games.
The only reason insider connected works is that Srern has a significant install base and using it is still optional.

Other then that having watched the vid, the layout, ball troph, glass removing etc is nice. Beeing able to conig the game in App is also great… I just want it to not be mandatory.

#514 4 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

People don’t want terrible generic “70s home pin” themes.
People don’t want 70s home pin cabinets.
People don’t want to pay $8400/$9777 for something that pales in comparison to a $7,000 stern pro in every single way.
There is simple no market for this. They should call it a day now, enjoy their prototypes in their game rooms, and we can all pretend this never happened.
It’s best for everybody.

Not so fast Levi. There is still 100 Pinbars that need to be released into the wild. Don’t forget the lift glass either. They are joined at the hip after all. And no open marriage is complete without some ungodly gravity defying contraption to give playfield access.

Let’s leave it the smartest guy in the room to figure this all out. Then we can be done…

#515 4 months ago
Quoted from dpadam450:

It's a long watch but I'm doing some similar things to Turner. If you don't have time to watch, the only important thing (and it' confusing to me) is that the model shown at expo is still moving forward at $9,999. It's considered premium.
Based on feedback, he wants to offer a version with a coin door and standard lock-down bar and standard glass for $8,627 but he is also removing ball locks and "a couple other playfield features". So for $8,477+150 I'm not sure what you will get, but it sounds like less than a stern pro(?)
Have no faith unfortunately. The feedback was, price this better. Not remove gameplay features which is what is holding him up at the moment. To get a coin door, you have to get an inferior game? So end of day the product we critiqued yesterday is still $9,999. Nothing changed.

So based on the information you gathered here are you still going to come out with your own zizzle-looking game? Or will you go full size?

#516 4 months ago
Quoted from dpadam450:

It's a long watch but I'm doing some similar things to Turner. If you don't have time to watch, the only important thing (and it' confusing to me) is that the model shown at expo is still moving forward at $9,999. It's considered premium.
Based on feedback, he wants to offer a version with a coin door and standard lock-down bar and standard glass for $8,627 but he is also removing ball locks and "a couple other playfield features". So for $8,477+150 I'm not sure what you will get, but it sounds like less than a stern pro(?)
Have no faith unfortunately. The feedback was, price this better. Not remove gameplay features which is what is holding him up at the moment. To get a coin door, you have to get an inferior game? So end of day the product we critiqued yesterday is still $9,999. Nothing changed.

Clueless. Does this guy really have no sense of his competition? There are multiple better games customers can choose from & buy with that money.

#517 4 months ago

I think the glass lifting with the apron is awesome. I always liked easily propping up nip it to do a quick clean or mess with a switch. Fast and easy. Instant access to the trough.

#518 4 months ago

They started when the market was starved for machines and a lot of money was flying around. The market now looks very different.

They also didn’t learn from failures of deeproot or Heighway and innovated things no one cares about or cares to pay for.

BoF got it right (although I’m a bit surprised there isn’t more pushback on their pricing).

#519 4 months ago

He's doing "I reinvented the Dave & Busters power card" as a business. The pin is just a prop. I bet this is an attempt to get a microbilling system into the realm of amusement to gouge arcades so he can take portions of each payment like how Uber gouged drivers. Can't wait for the "fluctuating prices based on how busy your arcade is" speech. He's going to say it's the "cheapest most affordable" solution then a couple years later jack up the prices once people are stuck in the system if he doesn't just liquidate and disappear. He's "invented" numerous app startups that microtransacted basic concepts, failed, and vanished with the investor money and every app was about passing transactions through his system that takes money out of your transactions.

I have to remark to this "look I invented a better way to take glass off". He thinks polycarbinate is better than tempered glass and premium because it can stand bullets? How many of you shoot and hammer your pins? Does he really not know poly scratches and what happens in arcades? FFS I have a ALI cocktail with a top removable glass panel that isn't heavy and has lasted 40 years with minor scratches. It's actually better than this and nicer. It's not shattered. This isn't new, he just stole the idea from Allied Leisure. That PF cover is absolutely going to end up making the game unplayable.

Quoted from iceman44:

We know the background. Well chronicled

Good. This was my first hearing about this company and saw their booth. I thought it was a homebrew at first. He was really really pushing that app. He gives me grift energy and his team just gave me ick in person. Like you all said, they should just shut it down and walk away. This is a joke. I'd buy 2 virtual pins before I even think about looking at one of these.

His whole session was basically an investor pitch. Yet he doesn't even know how to release the pinball machine or how to do international sales. He had a lot of "I'm not sure" answers. He circled back to the app so much. His entire business is pushing this app. I will never buy a new pin if it comes with an app I have to use.

#520 4 months ago
Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:

I think the glass lifting with the apron is awesome. I always liked easily propping up nip it to do a quick clean or mess with a switch. Fast and easy. Instant access to the trough.

Great idea and yes it is awesome. It was invented in the 70s. Dozens of pins do this. I agree I wish it came back, but I'm annoyed he acted like it was an original idea. I literally just took these pictures of my 1980 Eros One.

Glass comes off the top, easy to grab. No damage to the glass at all. Completely sealed.
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Oh look, the playfield just rotates up and holds itself in place like magic. I can work on it without taking it out of the cabinet. Oh wait but also I can also take it out and put it face down on a table with a towel to work on the back without a rotisserie because it's a solid one piece and the field is basically flat when you put it upside down. It's almost like someone already thought of all of his ideas before he did but only someone into pinball would know any of this.
20231021_164819 (resized).jpg20231021_164819 (resized).jpg

I think he only knew of the rotisserie for playfields because that booth was right next to theirs.

#521 4 months ago

Really want an Eros to go with my Take 5. I want all 5 of the LAI cocktails in a glass top bar.

al bar 1 (resized).jpgal bar 1 (resized).jpg

#522 4 months ago
Quoted from punkin:

Really want an Eros to go with my Take 5. I want all 5 of the LAI cocktails in a glass top bar.
[quoted image]

nice drawing!

#523 4 months ago

Not mine, Scott Seedsman drew it for me.

#524 4 months ago
Quoted from punkin:

Really want an Eros to go with my Take 5. I want all 5 of the LAI cocktails in a glass top bar.
[quoted image]

I am actually designing something similar to this

#525 4 months ago
Quoted from swinks:

I am actually designing something similar to this

That's why i have the wanted ad's up Jady. I think it would be a very cool piece of furniture in my future arcade, but didn't really want to share it in case they all dried up

#526 4 months ago
Quoted from natgreystar:

I'm annoyed he acted like it was an original idea.

So many games in history, hard to track them or find one to play. That's definitely good to know about that glass lifting. Unless he gets a specific patent on the latch. Just having something unlock and remove the glass as a whole can't be patentable if there are prior works. I'm curious why he wants to patent the removable backbox or what that would be. All back boxes can be removed but depending on the mechanism of ease to remove it, he may or may not be able to patent it.

Do you guys know any actual games that are have a "more" removeable backbox than the standard backbox. Could lay claim that this is not an original patentable idea. If anyone knows, please post. I'd be surprised if literally just having a screw+bracket = patentable, but patents can be stupid.

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

If „bigger“ is better value it‘s a perception problem.

At 10k though it's a perception/marketing problem that simply cannot be overlooked. People just love giant pinball machines. At a lower price point, my experience is virtually nobody cares. At 10k though, I'd imagine anyone looking to buy a pinball machine expects a big machine with a coin-door. Marketing is a game of perception.

#527 4 months ago

Polycarb instead of glass is a horrible idea. Polycarb will be hazed, scratched and scuffed to the pont of not being able to see the game in a week on location.

#528 4 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Polycarb instead of glass is a horrible idea. Polycarb will be hazed, scratched and scuffed to the pont of not being able to see the game in a week on location.

I've worked with the coated plastic he is using and done testing with it. The anti-abrasive coating can take steel wool rubbed in circles all day and it won't scratch at all. Unless someone is banging your machine with beer bottles or coins all day long, and can do more dmg than steel wool, it shouldn't do anything.

#529 4 months ago

The contrast between the entry to market from Turner Pinball vs. Barrel of Fun is remarkable. It would make a classic Marketing 101 case study. Polar opposites.

#530 4 months ago
Quoted from natgreystar:

Can't wait for the "fluctuating prices based on how busy your arcade is" speech.

I'm pretty sure he won't get anywhere near this close to that being an issue.

#531 4 months ago
Quoted from dpadam450:

Marketing is a game of perception.

100% this! People love the "commercial" aspect. I know I do. I 1000% need a coin door. I like how glass feels etc. Why take this away from us?

Perception is reality... and everyone thinks you are selling a home pin from a mile away... because it looks like it. If the perception was a commercial looking cabinet, then you already have them on your hook, now wow them into the game and build. Rinse and repeat.

Also, the theme, I know you like spaghetti westerns and old kung fu movies, but that is very specific and not appealing to many. Go standard cabinet and glass and grow from there. Also, a minor licensed theme... even a less costly theme of something specific to pull the audience base in to help.

-1
#532 4 months ago
Quoted from natgreystar:

Great idea and yes it is awesome. It was invented in the 70s.

With contacts in the Frame powering the LED lighting and an NFC reader? - Wow, they really were ahead of their time.

#533 4 months ago

Why do we get no crappy cellphone footage?

Game didn‘t get worse since the initial showing (wich we have footage of).

The game itself kinda got under the bus…

-13
#534 4 months ago
Quoted from spinout:

100% this! People love the "commercial" aspect. I know I do. I 1000% need a coin door. I like how glass feels etc. Why take this away from us?
Perception is reality... and everyone thinks you are selling a home pin from a mile away... because it looks like it! Silly child buttons on the front and all. He hadn't heard of Zizzle? That should scare everyone. He invented a bunch of things nobody asked for or needs but forgot to wow us with a pinball machine. An open api to something nobody will use. Pinbar 2.0 anyone.
Also, the theme ugh. I know you like spaghetti westerns and old kung fu movies, but that is very specific and not appealing. Hell, at this point I am ready to spell international rescue on a Thunderbirds!

Just don't buy it mate.

Swipe right or left or whatever the swipe people do, move on and don't worry about it any more.

It would be much quicker than typing your criticism on someone's life's work.

#535 4 months ago
Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:

I think the glass lifting with the apron is awesome. I always liked easily propping up nip it to do a quick clean or mess with a switch. Fast and easy. Instant access to the trough.

Bally's integrated canopy glass has many advantages. There are struts on each side, which is versatile. The entire unit can be removed from the playfield by simply lifting it off. This convenient design was utilized decades ago on many games in the late 1960s and early 1970s, including on 1968 Dixieland, one of Ted Zale's zipper flipper designs (pictured here for those pinsiders unfamiliar with this canopy glass unit).

The glass itself is not standard in size, though. The primary disadvantage is that the glass itself is time-consuming to replace, requiring the partial disassembly of the frame.

Real innovation would adopt the successful Bally design of old and find a way to allow for easy glass replacement via the section of the canopy which abuts the head (and perhaps utilize standard glass). There is no need to reinvent the proverbial wheel. Just tweak this proven canopy design.

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#536 4 months ago
Quoted from punkin:

Just don't buy it mate.
Swipe right or left or whatever the swipe people do, move on and don't worry about it any more.
It would be much quicker than typing your criticism on someone's life's work.

But to be fair, I was a bit harsh, so aplogies for that to the team. I love that they are trying something new. The game itself is actually a good start and I kinda dig the skill shot. I am just offering criticism on the aspects that others mentioned. Cabinet, glass, theme.

-10
#537 4 months ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

They started when the market was starved for machines and a lot of money was flying around. The market now looks very different.
They also didn’t learn from failures of deeproot or Heighway and innovated things no one cares about or cares to pay for.
BoF got it right (although I’m a bit surprised there isn’t more pushback on their pricing).

With Labyrinth my wife said she would have considered it at $8k because without Sarah, she said no way to paying over $10k for it let alone adding the topper and alternate backglass then at $12k.

My daughters felt they same way and they are huge fans of the movie and Jim Henson. They also felt the game looked boring and my wife drifted off listening to the in game music.

They should have been more competitive on the price being a new company. Just my $0.02.

#538 4 months ago

Who's Sarah and what has the other machine got to do with this one? Just trying to follow your posts mate, but i don't get the references.

-1
#539 4 months ago
Quoted from punkin:

Just don't buy it mate.
Swipe right or left or whatever the swipe people do, move on and don't worry about it any more.
It would be much quicker than typing your criticism on someone's life's work.

Well when anyone puts their work out there and is selling it, they are open to praise or criticism. Everyone has a right to voice it as you voiced your opinion on someone shouldn’t post a negative opinion and just swipe left.

-1
#540 4 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

We know the background. Well chronicled

Well not everyone can be you and they don’t know everything going on in pinball.

#541 4 months ago
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:

Well when anyone puts their work out there and is selling it, they are open to praise or criticism. Everyone has a right to voice it as you voiced your opinion on someone shouldn’t post a negative opinion and just swipe left.

That doesn't help.

Trying to understand how you are saying you have an opinion, and it's about praise or criticism, but the only thing you are posting is a comparison.

Apples/Oranges?

bigbird-one-of-these-things-is-not-like-the-others (1).gifbigbird-one-of-these-things-is-not-like-the-others (1).gif

#542 4 months ago
Quoted from punkin:

Who's Sarah and what has the other machine got to do with this one? Just trying to follow your posts mate, but i don't get the references.

She was the main protagonist in the movie. I forget many didn’t see the movie. The Goblin King(Bowie) wanted her so he kidnapped her brother. He said he would let her brother go if she agreed to be with him.

She was 14 at the time. She was in the majority of the movie, so my wife was disappointed she was not in it. Look at the post I replied to talking about the high price for the game.

#543 4 months ago
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:

She was the main protagonist in the movie. I forget many didn’t see the movie. The Goblin King(Bowie) wanted her so he kidnapped her brother. He said he would let her brother go if she agreed to be with him.
She was 14 at the time. She was in the majority of the movie, so my wife was disappointed she was not in it. Look at the post I replied to talking about the high price for the game.

In the Turner game? The Sarah sheila?

You know you are in the Turner thread don't you?

WhereDoTheyFindThemPunkin

-1
#544 4 months ago

I find the negativity of people on this site absolutely mind-boggling. Somebody comes along and makes an attempt to bring pinball forward and offer more options to problems. I for one, am glad there are Turner Pinballs in this world. I can't disagree more strongly with the people on this site who are largely responsible for games with garbage themes and nothing in them... like Venom... costing 13K. These same people criticize Labyrinth, a loaded game with much more in it and have the balls to say "That costs as much as a Stern Premium"... Amazing...

#545 4 months ago

Are we at the point where there’s more home buyers for games usually vs operators? Close?

I’ve watched 75% of expo presentation and I gotta say- price/gameplay not withstanding, the polycarb and integrated bezzle I actually really like. Yes others have attempted with glass, acknowledged. And I still think it’s always been a great idea. The poly in a home environment is fine.. at location we’ll see. I don’t feel like pins get vandalized or damaged in barcades like they used to but I could be wrong. But if you’re shooting to sell 100 units - all to homes is pretty reasonable these days. The zizzle stigma sucks- it’s clearly a thing.. but I still think the coin door could be phased out for digital payment systems. I dont love the look of the shallow cab but I also have no way to get a game in our newer car with a folded head so addressing that issue is a win in my book. Even if it was a full size cab - this head that only has 3 connections to remove I like very much!

#546 4 months ago
Quoted from dpadam450:

I've worked with the coated plastic he is using and done testing with it. The anti-abrasive coating can take steel wool rubbed in circles all day and it won't scratch at all. Unless someone is banging your machine with beer bottles or coins all day long, and can do more dmg than steel wool, it shouldn't do anything.

The prototype on the left in the hall had a sh!t ton of micro scratches all over the field if you looked at it from top down in the light. That is not going to hold up. Metal vs plastic - metal wins

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

People don’t want terrible generic “70s home pin” themes.
People don’t want 70s home pin cabinets.
People don’t want to pay $8400/$9777 for something that pales in comparison to a $7,000 stern pro in every single way.
There is simple no market for this. They should call it a day now, enjoy their prototypes in their game rooms, and we can all pretend this never happened.
It’s best for everybody.

This is my feelings as well

#547 4 months ago
Quoted from jcg9998:

I find the negativity of people on this site absolutely mind-boggling. Somebody comes along and makes an attempt to bring pinball forward and offer more options to problems. I for one, am glad there are Turner Pinballs in this world. I can't disagree more strongly with the people on this site who are largely responsible for games with garbage themes and nothing in them... like Venom... costing 13K. These same people criticize Labyrinth, a loaded game with much more in it and have the balls to say "That costs as much as a Stern Premium"... Amazing...

Look - first impressing with not knowing anything about it, this thing looks like a zizzle junk. Then you hear price tag of 9k? Wow. No way is anyone gonna drop 9k on this. He asked for feedback and got it which is the same thing we are posting here.

#548 4 months ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

With contacts in the Frame powering the LED lighting and an NFC reader? - Wow, they really were ahead of their time.

None of that needs to or belongs in pinball machines. They're building machines to have failure points now to encourage planned obsolescence and you applaud it. Do you know how often a machine gets serviced? That won't last. The contacts don't power anything it's just another fail point and reason for the game to not turn on.

This isn't robust enough to survive an arcade and if you weren't paying attention he literally doesn't care about pinball. He said in the presentation this was about his app and getting amusement facilities to pay him tons of money for an app that will take the money and run.

#549 4 months ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

Are we at the point where there’s more home buyers for games usually vs operators? Close?

Stern said a day ago that 70% of their games are going to homes.

Quoted from Chrizg:

The prototype on the left in the hall had a sh!t ton of micro scratches all over the field

Yea I wouldn't use it for a playfield unless it's intended to be polished. If the cabinet glass was scratched, then something else is going on. The anti-abrasion film I've tested, they don't hold up to the steel balls over time on a playfield. I'm curious what Haggis' coating is that is different since they use coated plastic on the playfield. Maybe PET-G or other plastic material. Anyone know?

Quoted from natgreystar:

he literally doesn't care about pinball

Maybe that was after my timestamp and I missed that. I saw Dennis Nordman in the audience and he was probably like "Ninjas? This game needs some f* ice cream dude. "

12
#550 4 months ago
Quoted from jcg9998:

Somebody comes along and makes an attempt to bring pinball forward and offer more options to problems.

Congratulations on being gullible. This isn't innovation it's a guy buying his way into an area he thinks he can rip off small businesses while pretend selling shotty pins. He didn't solve anything. He claims to invent things that already existed. Everything in this pin has already happened in pinball except the Alibaba parts.

So if you want a cheap kids toy at the price of a major machine go right ahead. Some people don't have time or ability to do background research. Some people were blindly applauding this guy and for real this whole thing looks like a scheme. Guys like this are looking for suckers to steal money from. They have saturated a bunch of industries and now they're trying to ruin pinball with microtransactional ripoff app services.

No one needs an NFC reader in their pin. If you love the idea so much I have a bunch of amiibo I'll sell you for $100 each. This type of thing will destroy arcades. If you want the industry to collapse then I guess you'll support Turner and watch your money vanish.

All said I have repeatedly criticized Sterns pins. Venom is a huge disappointment in so many ways. I also criticized the Elton machine for being mostly empty. I'm very critical of modern pins and when a company shows up knowing nothing about pinball with no industry knowledge, no connections, no attempt to even fathom the concept of the fan base or expectations of amusement providers, failed history, and a reputation of burning money and I mean come on do some research.

Turner does not belong here. Turner is an app farming tech bro looking to shark tank his way into amusement facilities and gouge through microtransactions. The presentation and gameplay shows me that the pin is just a prop to scheme into the industry and steal money from facilities without providing a real service. He plugged his app more than they talk about the pin in every conversation.

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