(Topic ID: 10477)

TSPP TV issues..

By Deaconblooze

12 years ago


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  • 54 posts
  • 15 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by tomaszb1
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There are 54 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 12 years ago

I just picked up a TSPP yesterday. After spending some time getting the flippers up to snuff (as much as possible without being able to order from PBL) I started to play it for a while. About 70% of the TV is out. These are LED's, so I really doubt that they would have burnt up. Does anyone have any tips on where to start with this sort of issue?

#2 12 years ago

Here's a picture to illustrate what's going on. It seems all colors work on all of the lit LED's.

photo_(3).JPGphoto_(3).JPG

#3 12 years ago

Go into diagnostics and do an LED test...what does it do?

#4 12 years ago

Damn Deac, you got nice collection going on over there. if u ever want to get rid of the pin bot let me know

#5 12 years ago

You might try reseating the connector on the back of the TV too

#6 12 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

Go into diagnostics and do an LED test...what does it do?

I did put it in diagnostics, it give the same sort of result as it does there (that pic is actually when it's in the diag menu) only with each color. I'll try reseating the connector again, but I sort of wiggled it already without any change.

Quoted from mojozone:

Damn Deac, you got nice collection going on over there. if u ever want to get rid of the pin bot let me know

Thanks Mojo. I'm really happy with where it is right now. I think ideally Flash would turn into a Firepower. I've been kicking around picking one up and doing the DT mod..is that sacrilege? Seems like it wouldn't be, since that was the original design.

I really like Pinbot, so I don't think it'll be going anywhere any time soon. Now I'm just missing a machine from the 90's... I was thinking FH may fit in well. Luckily it's the wife's favorite machine, but I think it'll still take some convincing. Better lay low for a while..

#7 12 years ago

Yes, but when in diagnostic mode there are 8 tests....Use the +,- to cycle through them.

Should be

Blank - No LEDs
Vertical line - should see a vertical line moving across
Horizontal line - should see a horizontal line moving up/down
Reverse Vertical line - should see all verticals lit, but one blank one moving across
Reverse Horiz line - should see all horizontals lit, but one blank moving up/down
All Yellow
All Green
All Red

Run these test and note if you see any patterns to missing dots, missing colors, etc.

#8 12 years ago
Quoted from Deaconblooze:

so I don't think it'll be going anywhere any time soon.

Don't blame you brotha I will find one eventually. Firepower is another that i would like to own also. Nice taste.

#9 12 years ago

Hey Robert - sorry I didn't make it clear. I did run through all diag tests. The lines scrolling only show the led's that are lit in my picture. The same with colors, all of the ones that are lit can show all colors.

I just popped out the tv and reset the connector a couple of times. No luck, same result as above.

#10 12 years ago

I have a Pin*bot I'm selling...Good deal too. $700. S'posed to be picked up tomorrow but haven't heard from the buyer all week.

#11 12 years ago

I dug out my manual, and unfortunately all Stern included was a picture of the TV board....No schematics and I can't find where the other end connects to. I would guess it makes it's way back to the MPU. So, try to trace that connector back and reseat the other end.

I found this for you....Lifted from a post by Clay on RGP:

I have a Stern Simpsons Pinball Party. I had the
game 'down' for a couple months, and put it
back up today. And the LED "Tv" was not working.
Strange, it was working when i folded the game
two months ago.
So here's what i went through to fix it. I figured
this may help someone in the future.
1. Check for +5 volts at the LED TV board
(on the playfield). There is but one connector
going to the TV. And the Red and Black wires
are +5 and Gnd respectively. Check for +5 vdc.
If you don't have power, the TV will never work.
In my case, there was 5.06 vdc at the TV board.
2. Check the input signals. The remainder of
the Orange wires at the TV connector are the
input signals from the I/O driver board. Note
Stern DOES NOT have a schematic for the
TV board in the manual! Wow, why not Joe
Blackwell? And where might i find this schematic
Joe? (Maybe it's on their web page?) If someone
has this schematic, please email it to me and
I will host the file.
Anyway, since the TV board is all surface
mount, i will assume it's Ok (because I don't
really have any way to fix it!) There are lots
of 74LS574 chips on that board, and a HTC04.
But anyway, check the input signals using a
logic probe. All the Orange/xxx wires need to
have a signal of some sort. Basically they
should all be pulsing (maybe one or two was
low, can't remember).
In my case, the Orange/Gray wire has NO signal.
Ha! Well that will do it. If you are missing a signal,
the TV won't work. So why was there no signal?
Now go up to the I/O Power Driver board in the
backbox (the big lower board). Connector J2
(upper right corner) has all the orange wires
going to the TV. Here's the layout:
J2 pin 1 - org/brn
J2 pin 2 - org/red
J2 pin 3 - org/blk
J2 pin 4 - KEY
J2 pin 5 - org/yellow
J2 pin 6 - org/grn
J2 pin 7 - org/blue
J2 pin 8 - org/purple
J2 pin 9 - org/GRAY
J2 pin 10 - org/white
These all go through a 100 ohm resistor.
Check ALL of these resistors with game
off using a DMM. If one is open, that will
stop the signal coming from chip U201.
In my case, these resistors were all good.
Checked J2 pin 9, my Orn/Gray wire,
there was NO signal. Looking at page 123
of the manual shows this leads to chip U201
(HCT273) on the I/O board, pin 19. Input
to this pin is U201 pin 18. So there should be
a signal at U201 pins 18 and pin 19.
No signal at U201 pin 18 means something
upstream is bad (U200), no signal at U201 pin 19
means U201 is bad.
In my case, I could SEE the problem
I should note, that this game has BATTERY
CORROSION. i installed a remote battery
pack on the CPU/Sound board, and cleaned
up the corrosion. BUT BUT BUT there was
corrosion at the U201 chip! Now how did that
happen? There's no batteries on the I/O board.
But somehow...
Well anyway, a wire brush to this area (game off!)
and a quick touchup of the U201 pin 19 solder
joint, and the signal was now at J2 pin 9.
And the TV LED worked!
Hope this info helps someone.

#12 12 years ago

I don't know why Stern didn't include a schematic either - I did try to do some research before posting so I consulted mine as well. Thanks for that info from Clay, I'll see if I can run through his suggestions.

#13 12 years ago

Roadblock.. No logic probe at this point. I guess this will have to wait.

#14 12 years ago

Evidently upon further reading, when they re-ran TSPP the second time, the manual included the schematic for the TV. Unfortunately, the one on IPDB is also the old one.

#15 12 years ago

Well, if you have the 'no signal' problem you'd see that with a meter as no voltage....If it is strobing as it should be you'll either see the value on your meter changing or an average voltage value...Either way, something other than 0 (or mV noise).

#16 12 years ago

sorry guys not trying to get in the way of fixing your problem but...

M

Quoted from robertmee:I have a Pin*bot I'm selling

robert you are killing me. That is exactly the amount in my pin fund. Only 20 hrs away

#17 12 years ago

I would think the voltage would be changing to rapidly for a DMM to pick up a value. Guess it would depend on the meter.

Deacon, Wait a day and I will bring up my scope.

#18 12 years ago

Hey Mojo. I would keep your eyes out for a similar Sys11 in your area if you don't wanna make the trip. There are a lot of good games of that era that I would like to have around - HS, FH, WW, GL, F14, Taxi... If you can grab any of those for a decent price (some are pretty expensive in that short list), you'd have no problem selling and grabbing a PB down the line.

#19 12 years ago

Robert and PaulyB, I wasn't sure that the DMM would be able to work fast enough (it's a Fluke 83). I just got the game, so I'm happy that I've got the flippers and everything else working for now. I'll try to get this worked out with PaulyB this weekend. It'd be great to be able to see that display...

#20 12 years ago

A fluke will definitely display something even if you just see the display rapidly changing. It would tell you go or no go....but if you've got a bud with a scope even better

#21 12 years ago

Check your multimeter for a "Hz" or frequency feature. Sometimes it's considered a "Range" setting. You can also try the "AC+DC" setting to see if there's an alternating signal in there.

#22 12 years ago

I think I was able to find that Pin8 was testing different than the others. I checked the associated pins on the chip and they seemed the same as all the others. I went back and checked the resistor again, seems to be good. Then I checked the piece next to it (is this some sort of capacitor?) and it was testing quite different than all the others. It seems that this would be the problem. I'm not able to find a part number in the manual, and it seems to have rubbed off the part and isn't very visible.

I'm not even sure what kind of part it is... Does anyone have any guidance? A part number would be great.

#23 12 years ago

Forgot the pic...

photo.JPGphoto.JPG

#24 12 years ago

Looks like C218 and it's either a multi-layer ceramic or tantalum capacitor. I'm not sure how you were testing it but I'd be surprised if it was the problem. Were you able to check and reseat all the connectors? I would try and find and check continuity of the wiring between the backbox output for the TV and the TV itself first. Since your TV seems to be getting signal to some lights, I suspect you just have a wiring problem vs. a PCB problem. I had a problem with my TSPP where the wiring to the monorail switch was run underneath the mini playfield and over the ball guide for Kwik-e-Mart. Over the years this had worn the wires insulation off and the bare wires were touching the ball guide causing the game to think the monorail switch was constantly being tripped. Weird things can happen in a game with a ton of wiring and a ton of connectors.

#25 12 years ago

I'll try testing for continuity on each end of the ribbon when I get home. I believe it was pin 8 on the board that had tested different than all of the others.. I hope you're right, I'd be thrilled if it was something simple like that.

#26 12 years ago

There is an IC that controls the displays. When it start to go, you get crap on the screen when the flashers are on, after that I hear it gets worse. I had this on mine, and replaced it and all good. Not sure if it's the same thing, but worth researching. I can't recall the chip, but it's on the driver board, and a 74htc... something. I'll try to look later.

#27 12 years ago

Thanks, I'd appreciate that. I'm really getting anxious to see that timer. The image I included in the OP is all that is ever lit. Those pixels jumble around randomly, but none of the others are ever lit.

#28 12 years ago

I tested continuity for all the wires. That doesn't seem to be the issue. I guess maybe I need to replace the chip?

#29 12 years ago

Wow. This stuff is way over my head. I sure do hope the TV on my TSPP never goes out.

#30 12 years ago

Wait until Saturday :p

1 month later
#31 12 years ago

I finally got around to this today.. I replaced BOTH of the chips in the picture above. I'm pretty happy, now this machine is 100% (knock on wood) and only waiting on updated roms. I'm hoping those will make it in tomorrow.

The only thing I've noticed is a bit of ghosting during attract mode when the GI turns out - is this common?

PIC!

// Error: Image 20048 not found //

#32 12 years ago

Problems uploading..

photo.JPGphoto.JPG

#33 12 years ago

Not sure if this would help, but there was issues with Monopoly and they recommended moving some of the wires due to some interference with the led display. Might be worth a try.

http://www.sternpinball.com/downloads/sb131.pdf

#34 12 years ago

nice job!!!!

#35 12 years ago
Quoted from MES:

Not sure if this would help, but there was issues with Monopoly and they recommended moving some of the wires due to some interference with the led display. Might be worth a try.

Thanks - that looks like it will probably help, I'm definitely going to give it a shot when I get home. It's not too bad, like I said only when the GI is off during attract mode I noticed some ghosting.

Thanks, feeling pretty good right now. Thanks to everyone that posted suggestions!

#36 12 years ago
Quoted from MES:

Not sure if this would help, but there was issues with Monopoly and they recommended moving some of the wires due to some interference with the led display. Might be worth a try.
http://www.sternpinball.com/downloads/sb131.pdf

I heard of that, but I don't believe it's the prob. I had the same thing on my TSPP. It is a certain 74HTC273 something or other, I'll have to find my notes on it. This chip goes bad, and screws up the TV when the GI is off, and flashers are on.

#37 12 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

This chip goes bad, and screws up the TV when the GI is off, and flashers are on.

This is one of the chips I just replaced.. It's not that the signal is completely "garbled", but some of the lower LEDS will ghost when the GI is off. I would think that it could be due to some interference like noted in the bulletin, but perhaps I have to flow one of the pins better?

#38 12 years ago

Which ones did you replace? If memory serves, I believe it is u206, on the driver, but I would have to check.

#39 12 years ago

I replaced U201 and U9. U9 was the one that had tested bad, but I replaced both chips since U201 is downstream. This fixed the problem I was having and lit the entire LCD board, but like I mentioned, a small amount of ghosting when the GI goes off..

#40 12 years ago

On my home computer now. U206 is what you need to replace. Check out RGP for more info, but I had the same issues, and replaced this, all good.

#41 12 years ago

I'll keep that in mind. Replacing the other chips fixed the problem almost entirely. Like I've said, there is minimal ghosting that's only noticeable when the GI is out. Maybe it's always there but not visible with high light. I'm going to try rerouting those cables as stated in the Stern bulletin. If that doesn't work I'll plan on ordering another chip. I'm hoping/thinking it may just be the interference thing.

#42 12 years ago

Any update on this?

11 months later
#43 11 years ago

I am resurrecting this thread because I am having similar issues. Just got the game and the TV does not work. There are faint "wave-like" patterns across the TV in attract mode and during game, faint yellow, no red or green. During the testing, there are only a couple of dots during horizontal, faint yellow during "all yellow," otherwise completely blank. I have followed the above testing and have found the following, if anyone can follow this and help me out:

There is 5V power to the TV
Connectors are seated properly and no wire breaks anywhere
7 of the 9 orange wires have oscillating voltage, which is apparently normal
1 of the 9 orange (position J2 pin 9) wires is fixed at 0.3V, while the 7 normal ones are oscillating and even when they are zero
1 of the 9 orange (position J2 pin10) wires is fixed at 1.55V, while the 7 normal ones are oscillating and even when they are zero

What does this tell me? Is the U201 chip bad? Is this normal from the chip and the problem with the TV LED board? My thinking is the chip is bad, but hate to go through the pain of replacing if not the problem. Many thanks for any input.

#44 11 years ago

It's probably the u206 chip. My TV started showing garble. Replaced this chip and it was fixed.

#45 11 years ago
Quoted from xbloodgreenx:

It's probably the u206 chip. My TV started showing garble. Replaced this chip and it was fixed.

Thanks. I suspect the chip. Where can one be purchased?

#46 11 years ago

U206 or U201? Is there any way to test the chip before replacing it? THanks.

#48 11 years ago

There probably is a way to test it, but I'm not sure. Just heard this chip typically goes bad and causes issue with the TV so I figured I'd replace it anyway. Definitely worked for me though.

9 months later
#49 10 years ago

It looks like my TSPP mini LCD tv is running into some problems as of late. I have a line out (sometimes) and then the picture is scrambled at times too...sometimes its 100 % working. Should I just go ahead and try to find the U206 chip and give it a go?

Well ran the test and it shows 3 lines out and sometimes green dots within the red color test. I'm guessing it's more of a wiring problem rather than the U206 chip perhaps.

4 weeks later
#50 10 years ago

Well now I totally have 6 full lines out and now this isn't so much of an intermittent issue. I can't put my finger on what's going wrong? Any advice would be much appreciated!

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