(Topic ID: 50801)

TSPP Owners Club..... Members Only!!!


By kwiKimart

7 years ago



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There are 5208 posts in this topic. You are on page 62 of 105.
#3051 2 years ago
Quoted from gcmess:

So.....was looking at schematic. All the flippers use the same 50V, each one with its own fuse. Q11 thru Q16 are the transisitors that fire and drive to voltage to gnd. All that seems to be working....yes? Could always jumper the voltage from a working flipper to the non working flipper.

so basically, you are suggesting to put a new wire from the 50V left red wire to the red wire on the right coil ?

#3052 2 years ago
Quoted from RussMyers:

Did you notice your pinblade says "The Android's Dangeon"?
RussM

No I haven't noticed! I bought the blades from the Russian guy that has all the repop plastics! I'll check when I get home now that's a bit poo

#3053 2 years ago
Quoted from BENETNATH:

so basically, you are suggesting to put a new wire from the 50V left red wire to the red wire on the right coil ?

Yep....if you think it's a voltage issue, jumper the working flipper to the non-working flipper. May want to remove a wire from the working flipper so you don't fire both flippers and maybe blow a fuse...
The EOS switch is there to fire the flipper when the flipper is forced back by a hard shot....so when you push it with your hand it should fire when the switch closes.
The EOS switch is normally closed...opens when the flipper is energized. Make sure it closes when you push on the flipper. An earlier post said your EOS switches were shunted? What do you mean?

#3054 2 years ago
Quoted from gcmess:

Yep....if you think it's a voltage issue, jumper the working flipper to the non-working flipper. May want to remove a wire from the working flipper so you don't fire both flippers and maybe blow a fuse...
The EOS switch is there to fire the flipper when the flipper is forced back by a hard shot....so when you push it with your hand it should fire when the switch closes.
The EOS switch is normally closed...opens when the flipper is energized. Make sure it closes when you push on the flipper. An earlier post said your EOS switches were shunted? What do you mean?

I mean that eos wires are twisted together as switches are broken. So eos are always closed.
I'll give a try
Thanks

#3055 2 years ago
Quoted from BENETNATH:

I mean that eos wires are twisted together as switches are broken. So eos are always closed.
I'll give a try
Thanks

I certainly would replace those switches....that's all part of getting your flippers to work properly.

#3056 2 years ago
Quoted from gcmess:

I certainly would replace those switches....that's all part of getting your flippers to work properly.

I will but i need to have it working well. Eos are not mandatory for the moment.

I've made additional tests and they are.. strange

So i've put the 50v from left coil to right coil.
Same,but left button activates right flipper. Still weak
I've put red and gnd wires from left to right coil, and it is still weak..
So it's not the coil, but it's not the board or wiring.
My last option would be that the previous owner used bad parts to rebuild the right flipper even if they seem similar.

Sad ending: put back wires, did it in rush, put wrong cables, grilled 2 fuses and my irl540.
Flipper down. Need to order parts

#3057 2 years ago

Fix your eos switches goofball

#3058 2 years ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Fix your eos switches goofball

As having them open or closed doesn't affect my issue, it's not the first in list,but i agree its second

#3059 2 years ago
Quoted from Ericc123:

Just finished installing my Comet Pinball TSPP non ghosting LED kit. I'm incredibly happy with the way it turned out and wanted to share in case anyone was looking for a kit. The pictures on my phone really don't do it justice and it's super hard to snap a pic with everything lit up. Again, I highly recommend this kit to anyone looking to brighten up their machine.

Thanks for posting this ericc123!

It's worth noting that our kit comes with three additional spotlights that weren't installed in the photos that Eric posted. It looks more like this in the center of the playfield (though the lighting strip between flippers isn't in the pic). (Always hard to get the right lighting on pics...the inlanes aren't that blown out in person).

FIMG_1511 (resized).JPG

Also, there was some discussion above about LED OCD. We also have OCD version of the kit that doesn't use the non-ghosting bulbs.

#3060 2 years ago
Quoted from BENETNATH:

As having them open or closed doesn't affect my issue, it's not the first in list,but i agree its second

Sorry...but have to disagree. EOS switches are there for a reason. If not ....they wouldn't design it like this and they wouldn't be there.
Sorry to hear about your transistor.

#3061 2 years ago

I've always wondered this, what is the point of EOS switches in modern games? My understanding was that ever since WPC fliptronics, the high/low power switching of the coils was determined by software.

#3062 2 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

I've always wondered this, what is the point of EOS switches in modern games? My understanding was that ever since WPC fliptronics, the high/low power switching of the coils was determined by software.

Yes, it IS determined by software. But the software needs to KNOW that the flipper is engaged. Makes sense really.

#3063 2 years ago
Quoted from scottslash:

Yes, it IS determined by software. But the software needs to KNOW that the flipper is engaged. Makes sense really.

But if your EOS isn't working, it still flips correctly, and doesn't burn up the coil or blow a fuse like older games.

#3064 2 years ago

Some light reading on eos switches in modern games

http://docs.missionpinball.org/en/latest/mechs/flippers/eos_switches.html

The main idea is here from forum user homepin in another thread:

The EOS switch in modern machines is really only there in case a super fast ball slams into the flipper while it is being held in the up position.
1. press flipper button and main pull coil activates, pulling the plunger swiftly to the upwards position.
2. the MCU starts a timer counting while at the same time the MCU "looks" for a closure of the EOS switch.
3. one of two things now happens here:
A. the MCU sees that the EOS switch has closed - or
B. the timer times out and the MCU "assumes" the plunger has now made it to "flipper up" position
4. the MCU turns ON the hold coil and then turns OFF the pull coil holding the plunger safely in the up position.
The problem now is if a fast ball slams into the flipper the MCU has no way to tell if this event has happened so the flipper will very likely flop to the down position as the hold coil won't have the power to resist EVEN IF you are holding the flipper button ON.
If the EOS switch is intact and working correctly, the MCU would "see" the EOS switch go open and say to itself: "wait a second - the flipper is held in the up position - that's not right" and so the MCU will pulse the power coil again to make sure the flipper remains in the up position.

---------

I read conflicting info on how whitestar uses eos switches, but if they are programmed to cut pull power after a time limit or eos is closed, whichever comes first this could be your problem.

#3065 2 years ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Some light reading on eos switches in modern games
---------
I read conflicting info on how whitestar uses eos switches, but if they are programmed to cut pull power after a time limit or eos is closed, whichever comes first this could be your problem.

nice explanation, but with the actual knowledge of my issue, EOS seems not involved :
- EOS open or closed do not modify flipper behaviour
- left flipper has EOS shunt too, and behaves normally
- putting left coil power and gnd wires on right coil did not solve the issue.
- switching left coil and right coil did not move the issue.

what remains possible ?
1) a flipper issue (the flipper is correctly fixed on the shaft)
2) a plunger issue (previous owner could have taken a different part, and coil may not be able to exert enough power on it
3) another idea ?

#3066 2 years ago

Well I've never hoped it was a board problem before but it might be it gets resolved when you switch out your parts. Seems like as long as your testing methods were sound it couldn't be a continuity issue.

#3067 2 years ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Well I've never hoped it was a board problem before but it might be it gets resolved when you switch out your parts. Seems like as long as your testing methods were sound it couldn't be a continuity issue.

huhu, anyway, thanks for replying.. i'll anyway fix EOS, i plan to get a working TSPP with all mechanism rights, including EOS.

#3068 2 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

I've always wondered this, what is the point of EOS switches in modern games? My understanding was that ever since WPC fliptronics, the high/low power switching of the coils was determined by software.

I was wondering the same thing. I didn't even have EOS switches on my WOOLY build and just used the software to handle switching over from the high power coil to the low power hold. With that said, I saw people were having issues with the EOS in the Game of Thrones thread and someone posted:

"Without an EOS switch, the game can't strengthen flipper hold if the bat gets pushed down. So I think even with solid state flippers it's still necessary."

So maybe there is some feedback loop still in STERN games that uses the EOS to optimize performance.

#3069 2 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

But if your EOS isn't working, it still flips correctly, and doesn't burn up the coil or blow a fuse like older games.

True true.

#3070 2 years ago

Data east started using them to detect if the flipper on Jurassic Park had been hit hard by the raptor pit kickback and if the EOS tripped the flipper would re-energize because the flipper control board would only send hold power even if the flipper is hit down.

-Jim

#3071 2 years ago
Quoted from vbobrusev:

Hi! I have issue with GI on my TSPP when i press on flipper buttons - gi illumination is dimming... i check voltage on J14 gerular voltage is 5.4v but when i press on flipper buttons - voltage drop until 5.2v somebody have same issue like me? How i can solve it?

Did you ever get any help on this? Mine is having the same issue.

#3072 2 years ago
Quoted from jim5six:

Data east started using them to detect if the flipper on Jurassic Park had been hit hard by the raptor pit kickback and if the EOS tripped the flipper would re-energize because the flipper control board would only send hold power even if the flipper is hit down.
-Jim

They're certainly older than that. I know F14 had them for the Jagov kicker and I don't think that was their first implementation.

#3073 2 years ago
Quoted from emkay:

They're certainly older than that. I know F14 had them for the Jagov kicker and I don't think that was their first implementation.

Every game presumably had them prior to flipper board control... I was just talking about digital flipper board controlled games.

#3074 2 years ago
Quoted from jim5six:

Every game presumably had them prior to flipper board control... I was just talking about digital flipper board controlled games.

I guess I'm confuser'd what we're talking about. EOS switch is on or off, what does "flipper board control" change about that?

#3075 2 years ago

Hey fellow pinsiders I am new to the site and am the original owner of a TSPP HUO pin. 2003 run. Low plays, almost all original. I used to do a lot of basic work on pins around 15-20 yrs ago but have not had much time since then to play or work on either mine or my friends pins. I am getting ready to do some updating/modernizing to my TSPP so I was looking around for ideas when I read the thread concerning the right flipper issue one of you has, and there was one time I had a similar problem on a pin a while back and the solution was so bizarre it didn't seam like it could possibly be the fix but it was. It was an impossible to detect broken/loose flipper bat itself. It always stayed aligned with the inlane so it appeared solid, but would just not produce power. Swapped it out just for the heck of it and the issue went away. Anyway I thought I would mention it since it's easy to test and eliminate as a source.

#3076 2 years ago

Check the diode on the flipper coil. I had an inexplicable problem when the diode on mine broke off. If I recall correctly the flipper would one-shot. Given what I know about electronics and Whitestar flippers, that made no sense, and yet that's what it did.

#3077 2 years ago
Quoted from emkay:

I guess I'm confuser'd what we're talking about. EOS switch is on or off, what does "flipper board control" change about that?

Whitestar flippers (including Simpsons) are controlled by electronics. When the button is pressed, the flipper kicks; then, the flipper is held up by electronics pulsing the flipper 12 times a second. If the EOS gets opened, the flipper gets pulsed back to the up position (full strength kick). This helps with things like the raptor kicker in Jurassic Park, but I've seen it happen on Simpsons, too.

Older games (pre-1990) used the EOS switch to control whether the flipper was held up with high or low power. If your EOS isn't working on these, it tends to melt the sleeve in the coil if the primary stays on too long, or not work at all or be super wimpy if the primary never engages. These aren't as simple or reliable as Stern flippers, but they don't tend to hum or chatter.

Data East added a flipper board around 1990, and Williams followed suit in 1992.

#3078 2 years ago
Quoted from ts4z:

Whitestar flippers (including Simpsons) are controlled by electronics. When the button is pressed, the flipper kicks; then, the flipper is held up by electronics pulsing the flipper 12 times a second. If the EOS gets opened, the flipper gets pulsed back to the up position (full strength kick). This helps with things like the raptor kicker in Jurassic Park, but I've seen it happen on Simpsons, too.
Older games (pre-1990) used the EOS switch to control whether the flipper was held up with high or low power. If your EOS isn't working on these, it tends to melt the sleeve in the coil if the primary stays on too long, or not work at all or be super wimpy if the primary never engages. These aren't as simple or reliable as Stern flippers, but they don't tend to hum or chatter.
Data East added a flipper board around 1990, and Williams followed suit in 1992.

Gotcha! I was scratching my head for a second but that explanation was perfect. So does that mean Stern/Sega/etc use single coils rather than double coils with a high/low side? Sorry if it's a stupid question, I'm still learning the underside of the playfield part of this hobby - for which I have more than one broken game in the basement to show for it!

#3079 2 years ago

So....turned on my TSPP this morning and all my settings and scores are gone. Shit! So replaced the batteries and still doesn't remember (please don't tell me to get NVRAM...I get that) Just trying to figure out what happened and why I can't get it to remember. All I did recently replace a noisy transformer for the light. Any help?

#3080 2 years ago

If the batteries were dead, replacing them won't bring back your scores.

#3081 2 years ago
Quoted from gcmess:

So....turned on my TSPP this morning and all my settings and scores are gone. Shit! So replaced the batteries and still doesn't remember (please don't tell me to get NVRAM...I get that) Just trying to figure out what happened and why I can't get it to remember. All I did recently replace a noisy transformer for the light. Any help?

FYI....I must of nudge the battery holder and caused a bad connection. I strapped tied the holder to the board thru the slots provided and sure enough...memory is back. Think I have a repair in my future though....

#3082 2 years ago

Sounds like either battery acid damage or a poor solder joint between the battery holder and the board. If the latter, might be a simple fix to reflow solder on the loose connections. I would pull the board and inspect it visually for any acid damage ASAP.

#3083 2 years ago
Quoted from mavantix:

Sounds like either battery acid damage or a poor solder joint between the battery holder and the board. If the latter, might be a simple fix to reflow solder on the loose connections. I would pull the board and inspect it visually for any acid damage ASAP.

Agree....sounds like today's project

#3084 2 years ago
Quoted from gcmess:

FYI....I must of nudge the battery holder and caused a bad connection. I strapped tied the holder to the board thru the slots provided and sure enough...memory is back. Think I have a repair in my future though....

Wait...you're saying you lost all your default settings and scores (default scores showed up on the display), you replaced the batteries while the default scores were on, you poked around, and your old scores came back up?

#3085 2 years ago
Quoted from Sparky:

Wait...you're saying you lost all your default settings and scores (default scores showed up on the display), you replaced the batteries while the default scores were on, you poked around, and your old scores came back up?

No....lost all my high scores and my settings not default settings. You know the "open coin door" every time you shut off the machine and then turn it on.

#3086 2 years ago

Hi! Have issue with my TSPP CPU/Sound board. i don't know whats happends but dmd show me strange information. if i swap cpu board from other whitestar machine with original roms - everything is ok. but this boards show me this... any ideas what it can be or how to fix it?
IMG_8821 (resized).JPG
IMG_8822 (resized).JPG

#3087 2 years ago

Have you tried a factory reset? Roms can go bad, too.

#3088 2 years ago
Quoted from D-Gottlieb:

Have you tried a factory reset? Roms can go bad, too.

I put this roms in other cpu/sound board and everything works fine

#3089 2 years ago

I would reseating connectors, cables. Are batteries off the board and new or do you have a NVRAM installed?

#3090 2 years ago
Quoted from D-Gottlieb:

I would reseating connectors, cables. Are batteries off the board and new or do you have a NVRAM installed?

I swap eeprom and nvram to other board, and put it back, no effect, reseating cables too

#3091 2 years ago

Do the same with the dmd.

#3092 2 years ago

I took this cpu with issue took eeproms and nvram put in other working cpu, put it in tspp machine and everything works fine, took back eeproms and nvram in original board with this trouble and same problem. I think this is issue in cpu, nvram and eeproms don't have matter. I don't know what it can be on cpu... Eeprom on dmd and dmd controller is ok. I thing wrong data came from cpu board before dmd ribbon cable

#3093 2 years ago

I'm trying to clean up the lock bar receiver on a TSPP and I'd like to replace the high voltage, bubble level and 5 ball install decals. Mine are stained and torn. Does anyone have a good scan of these they could send me? Or are they available somewhere because I can't seem to find them. Any help much appreciated!

#3094 2 years ago

Flashinstinct makes nice sets and has a web store on here. I'd check and see if he has what you need:

https://pinside.com/pinball/biz/directory/1269-flashinstinct

#3095 2 years ago

Hi all-
Joined the club a couple weeks ago buying an HUO TSPP as my first pin. It's an April 2003 build but has the 5.0 ROM installed.

I've just started having an issue today where the flippers will stop working mid ball and the machine will just sit there for 2-3 minutes before putting another ball in the shooter lane. I'm guessing this is a ball detection problem but I'm not sure. It's an intermittent problem.

Anyone have thoughts on what might be going on?

#3096 2 years ago

What happens on the display when the flippers stop working? Does it act like the ball has drained before it actually drains?

#3097 2 years ago
Quoted from ATL_Tom:

...the flippers will stop working mid ball and the machine will just sit there...... It's an intermittent problem.

I'm having this same issue, but also when this happens on mine, the LED/TV in the upper playfield conks out too. Usually turning if off/on again will fix it, but would love to know the cause and how to fix.

#3098 2 years ago

It's only happened twice in the last 30-35 games usually early in a session. One time the ball just drained and the dmd didn't change. The other it treated it as the end of ball with bonuses and call-outs. Both times the machine sat for 2-3 minutes before putting a new ball in shooter lane.

I'll be paying more attention to details from now on.

Quoted from Chalkey:

What happens on the display when the flippers stop working? Does it act like the ball has drained before it actually drains?

#3099 2 years ago

If you haven't done the $10 speaker buzz fix you are missing out. Took 10 min, would have been less had i been more confident). AMAZING! And, I love that I can now adjust volume between backbox and cabinet independently.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tspp-speaker-humbuzz-fixed
No promotional considerations were received for my testimony

#3100 2 years ago

Yeah I just did that fix too. Now I need to figure it which of the many fixes my DE Jurassic park needs and my game room will be nearly silent!

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