(Topic ID: 204256)

Tspp display issues, totally perplexed


By Djshakes

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 27 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by PinballManiac40
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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IMG956842 (resized).jpg
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#1 1 year ago

Helping a friend with a Tspp. Posted a thread a couple weeks back because his new color dmd wasn't working. So we figured we would diagnose to see if it was his new screen or the machine. He had new 5.0 ROMs in the game. We decided to swap everything back to the way it was. Old dmd with 4.0 ROMs. Old screen wouldn't work in the game. He had a working LOTR for swapping boards. Swapped dmd ribbon cables, screen and every board other than the power driver board between both games. Everything worked in the LOTR but LOTR swaps wouldn't work in Tspp. Checked every fuse on the power driver board as well. We ran out of time so we couldn't swap power driver boards. Any suggestions? Here are some pics in case we overlooked something. Test points on power driver read fine.

20171203_222733 (resized).jpg
20171203_222742 (resized).jpg

#2 1 year ago

Did you swap the Whitestar DMD controller boards between the two games? Those are the boards mounted to the rear of the displays.

If you were testing with the old plasma DMD, did you try swapping the high-voltage power supply boards?

#3 1 year ago

Yes swapped the whitest are boards. It isn't an issue with the color dmd I don't think because we completely bi passed and tried hooking up the old display. Can't get the old display to work either. The only part we didn't swap is the power driver board. Is there a capacitor or something on the power driver we should check?

#4 1 year ago

To be clear, did you measure the voltages at the DMD? You say the test points are fine, but I don't think there are test points on the little display power board, are there?

#5 1 year ago

Power driver board seems unlikely to be the problem, but the way to check would be to test for proper voltages at the Whitestar display board and at the DMD.

If you were pulling display ROMs in/out of the Whitestar display board, I'd be more suspicious of damage to the socket or TSPP display ROM chip.

Just to verify... have you done this test?
(1) Set the LOTR back to the way it was with all original boards.
(2) Swap ONLY the Whitestar display board between games AND (necessarily) swap the display ROM chips between the two boards so the right display chip is in the right game.

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from Dmod:

Power driver board seems unlikely to be the problem, but the way to check would be to test for proper voltages at the Whitestar display board and at the DMD.
If you were pulling display ROMs in/out of the Whitestar display board, I'd be more suspicious of damage to the socket or TSPP display ROM chip.
Just to verify... have you done this test?
(1) Set the LOTR back to the way it was with all original boards.
(2) Swap ONLY the Whitestar display board between games AND (necessarily) swap the display ROM chips between the two boards so the right display chip is in the right game.

Voltage at dmd is around 5 to 4.90. Yes swapped all into lotr. Everything from Tspp works in LOTR. I have rim pullers, did not damage the sockets. Really scratching my head in this one.

#7 1 year ago

5V is right for the Whitestar display board, but the DMD for TSPP is a high-voltage plasma and power comes from a separate high-voltage board. Need to check all the voltages coming out on the 9-pin DMD power connector.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from Dmod:

5V is right for the Whitestar display board, but the DMD for TSPP is a high-voltage plasma and power comes from a separate high-voltage board. Need to check all the voltages coming out on the 9-pin DMD power connector.

The old dmd didn't work when swapping. Old dmd works in LOTR. Same with all the boards. So that leads me to believe high voltage board is fine. At this point we're not even trying to get the color dmd going. Just trying to get old dmd working. Most likely whatever is wrong is causing both not to work.

#9 1 year ago

Could it be as simple as a molex connector? The ones on my tspp are dry and brittle. My display went out so I reseated the connector and it works fine. It's probably just a matter of time before I have to replace some of them.

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from Strummy:

Could it be as simple as a molex connector? The ones on my tspp are dry and brittle. My display went out so I reseated the connector and it works fine. It's probably just a matter of time before I have to replace some of them.

I wish, tried all that. I'm still thinking power driver board. It's the only thing we didn't swap. If I get back to his house I'll try swapping.

#11 1 year ago

It sounds like you haven't tried to swap the high power board, or measured to see that the voltages at the DMD (not the display board, the DMD!) are correct. You could totally blow the high power board putting a different DMD in, just due to different stresses on components. The driver board literally has nothing to do with displaying stuff. It just reads data from the CPU board and does stuff based on that.

#12 1 year ago

I'm still unclear on what tests were done. Looking at the TSPP backbox, there are only four boards:

(1) large CPU board at top-right
(2) large power driver board at bottom-right
(3) DMD High-Voltage power board at top left
(4) DMD display controller board mounted to back of the DMD

There's also the actual DMD that is underneath the metal RF shield.

The CPU and display controller board both contain ROMs that need to be replaced when swapping boards. Also the game ROM and display ROM versions also have to be consistent to work properly.

If you can be more specific as to exactly what and how the board swaps were done, it would be helpful to debugging the issue.

#13 1 year ago

Sorry, thought I was clear. I'll try again. Every board in the Tspp excluding power driver was removed one at a time and installed on LOTR with success, meaning LOTR continued to function. Roms were swapped to accommodate. Old dmd was also swapped into LOTR successfully. LOTR is a working game, Tspp is not. So I figured if I transferred over boards from Tspp to LOTR one at a time I could isolate as soon as LOTR stopped working. Well, every board I took out of tspp worked fine in LOTR. In turn, I swapped every board out of LOTR into Tspp with no success. So I tested both directions so to speak. In addition I swapped all ribbon cables. The only thing I did NOT swap was the power driver board. So it either has to be the power driver board or wires. Also, I tested all the test spots in the Tspp power driver board and they tested fine. We also took out his 5.0 Roms and installed the old 4.0 Roms. No luck. To be clear, whenever a board was swapped between games the proper Roms were also swapped. LOTR and tspp.

All the boards you mentioned above except number 2 was swapped.

All this was done above with old dmd. Just trying to get the game working as it did prior to color dmd. Again, old dmd works in LOTR. Once we figure out problem I'm sure thr color dmd will work also.

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from Dmod:

DMD High-Voltage power board at top left

Can we see a picture of this board in TSPP? I also agree the (-112v, -100v, 5v, 12v, 68v) voltages need to be measured at the DMD power connector in TSPP.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Can we see a picture of this board in TSPP? I also agree the (-112v, -100v, 5v, 12v, 68v) voltages need to be measured at the DMD power connector in TSPP.

I'm not at my buddies house but maybe he can. I sent him link to thread. Might have to resurrect later.

#16 1 year ago

If voltages check out, it's not the power driver board (or transformer).

At that point I think the only difference between LOTR and TSPP are the ROMs.

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Can we see a picture of this board in TSPP? I also agree the (-112v, -100v, 5v, 12v, 68v) voltages need to be measured at the DMD power connector in TSPP.

Don't know if it helps, but this is a picture of the board in my TSPP.

20171205_015211 (resized).jpg

#18 1 year ago

Here's pic.

You are correct. Only difference are ROMs.

IMG956842 (resized).jpg

#19 1 year ago

And TSPP was going into attract mode and even started a game, but without any display, correct?

#20 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

And TSPP was going into attract mode and even started a game, but without any display, correct?

Plays no problem, just no display. Screen does flicker on startup and color dmd did cycle through menu when hooked up.

#21 1 year ago

Even the LOTR DMD does not work in TSPP? What manufacture DMDs are in both games?

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Even the LOTR DMD does not work in TSPP? What manufacture DMDs are in both games?

Correct, the LOTR doesn't work in the TSPP. Nothing works in the TSPP. Everything I swapped from TSPP works in LOTR.

These readings are for a WPC display but wouldn't they be the same for a TSPP using a high voltage display?

Pin 1: -125 volts (-110 to -130 volts); Williams lowered this voltage to -115.
Pin 2: -113 volts (-98 to -118 volts); Williams lowered this voltage to -103.
Pin 3: Key
Pin 4: Ground
Pin 5: Ground
Pin 6: +5 volts (4.9 to 5.2 volts)
Pin 7: +12 volts (10 to 14 volts)
Pin 8: +62 volts (58 to 68 volts)

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from Djshakes:

Correct, the LOTR doesn't work in the TSPP. Nothing works in the TSPP. Everything I swapped from TSPP works in LOTR.
These readings are for a WPC display but wouldn't they be the same for a TSPP using a high voltage display?
Pin 1: -125 volts (-110 to -130 volts); Williams lowered this voltage to -115.
Pin 2: -113 volts (-98 to -118 volts); Williams lowered this voltage to -103.
Pin 3: Key
Pin 4: Ground
Pin 5: Ground
Pin 6: +5 volts (4.9 to 5.2 volts)
Pin 7: +12 volts (10 to 14 volts)
Pin 8: +62 volts (58 to 68 volts)

Voltages look good. I'd suspect the TSPP display ROM (or the Whitestar display board... but you already stated this is working with the LOTR display ROM installed).

#24 1 year ago
Quoted from Dmod:

Voltages look good. I'd suspect the TSPP display ROM (or the Whitestar display board... but you already stated this is working with the LOTR display ROM installed).

Sorry, those aren't my readings. I'm asking if that's what they should be. I got those from a wpc thread. Are they the same on stern?

#25 1 year ago

According to TSPP manual's "Display Power Supply Board Schematic":
1 -120V
2 -100V
3 KEY
4 GND
5 GND
6 +5V
7 +12V
8 +60V

#26 1 year ago

OK, don't laugh because I've seen this on two games. Try taking out the fluorescent tube and see if anything changes. I've seen the starter and/or tube cause the display not to work on Whitestar games.

#27 1 year ago

Try the LOTR display ROM and DMD controller board with the TSPP game ROM. You might see some delays and wrong animations of course, but interested if anything shows. No damage will happen as long as you do not use the LOTR game ROM in TSPP.

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