(Topic ID: 142409)

Trying to fix my First EM, any advice appreciated!

By osudrummer

8 years ago


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  • 65 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by osudrummer
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There are 65 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 8 years ago

Okay so the latest tonight is I jumpered from the red+white on QB to SB1 on the taller switch stack with one green and one yellow wire and the flippers worked, then tried from QB to the make break on SB2 that had been redone and everything still worked. What should that tell me? So close yet so far... Thanks all!

#52 8 years ago
Quoted from osudrummer:

then tried from QB to the make break on SB2

That suggests the open is between QB and SB2, perhaps including the make/break switch on SB2, depending on which side of the switch was included.

So it's in there somewhere.

#53 8 years ago

I put the jumper on the blade on SB2 that you mentioned looked like it has been modified. Has the smaller brown wire.

#54 8 years ago

Forgot to mention that I also cleaned the contacts in the SB2 make or break with a flexstone at one point and then the ZB relay would just buzz when I turned the machine back on. This is one of the relays that measures .5ohms but I tried tripping it manually and it just buzzed louder. Went back and messed with the switch stack on SB2 some more and then it came on like it has been with no buzzing but no power to the flippers and other stuff either. Did I temporarily fix the open and now it was showing me the next issue with the ZB trying to engage?

#55 8 years ago

ZB is the 1st Ball Relay, and should energize and trip when the game is powered on, then get reset during startup when the Control Bank resets, then energize and trip again when the first points are score.

But once tripped, it should not be energized and buzzing. A switch on ZB should open when ZB trips, to open the path to the ZB coil. So if it's staying energized after tripping, then that suggests that the switch either isn't opening or has some short to that switch.

#56 8 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

ZB is the 1st Ball Relay, and should energize and trip when the game is powered on, then get reset during startup when the Control Bank resets, then energize and trip again when the first points are score.
But once tripped, it should not be energized and buzzing. A switch on ZB should open when ZB trips, to open the path to the ZB coil. So if it's staying energized after tripping, then that suggests that the switch either isn't opening or has some short to that switch.

My Target Alpha's 1st ball relay is not in the control bank, does stay engerized thruout the game after being tripped by the first points...

#57 8 years ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

My Target Alpha's 1st ball relay is not in the control bank, does stay engerized thruout the game after being tripped by the first points...

That's correct for Target Alpha.

But in this case, ZB is seen in the previous pictures posted of the Control Bank (which is where it's located on this era of game).

#58 8 years ago

I have been working on this the last few evenings. Can jumper from either SB2 or SB1 to QB and it works. I have been through the bridge wires and contacts with a meter, jumper and flexstone to no avail. Is there any chance it could be an open from somewhere else? Anyone know an EM tech in the Tulsa area that won't charge more than the game is worth?

#59 8 years ago
Quoted from osudrummer:

Is there any chance it could be an open from somewhere else?

Nope.

If you can jumper from SB2 to QB and it works, then the open is in between somewhere.

Further, if you:
- jumper only QB and doesn't work; and
- jumper only SB2 and doesn't work,

then the open is in between them.

Given the proximity of them, the wiring should be able to be physically traced. You'll want to follow the path from the QB switch through to the SB2 switch very carefully.

But if jumping over them makes it work, then that's overcoming the open. Only the switch on QB and the make/break switch on SB2 need to be closed to complete that path, so it has to be right there somewhere.

#60 8 years ago

Good Evening! So I think I made some progress. I jumpered the Brown-White-Red wire on SB2 to the same color wire on QB and it works. Weird thing is this brown wire goes to different tilt switches, one on the rolling tilt and one on the underside of the playfield. Is this a tilt switch? If I activate it I don't get a tilt. The schematic refers to three tilt mechanisms so I figure that is the slam, back box and rolling tilts but there is this fourth one underneath that doesn't seem to work. I checked continuity from its brown-white-red wire to QB and it seems ok. Also the schematic shows all tilts open but the one on the door is closed. I think I am close with this brown-red-white wire. Any thoughts, one of my tilts messed up? Thanks!image.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpeg

#61 8 years ago

Tilts are normally open, and the anti-cheat/bounce switches are normally closed. So there'll be the tilt bob, the ball roll, and then the one under the playfield for the three tilts.

then the one on the coin door, and the one on the bottom board that faces down both will be normally closed, but aren't tilt switches; those are the Anti-cheat and Bounce.

Quoted from osudrummer:

I jumpered the Brown-White-Red wire on SB2 to the same color wire on QB and it works.

Does this wire run directly from SB2 to QB? (so it's like 3 inches long or such). Or are you saying it leaves the Control Bank and comes back before reaching from SB2 to QB? There's a branch off it that goes from SB2 into the tilt path (so tilt needs that SB2 switch to be closed in order for Tilt to work), but there should be a piece that goes from SB2 to QB directly.

So, if the game can't tilt, then that further points to that switch on SB2 not getting a good closed signal. See there on the schematic where the whole tilt path is after the closed switch on SB2? That's the same make/break switch that needs to feed QB. If you jumper there from SB2 to QB, then does Tilt start to work?

#62 8 years ago

The brown wire leaves and then comes back to QB so not a short wire. There isnt a brown wire that goes direct from SB2 to QB. I can take better pictures but that has been confusing me. Maybe when the previous owner messed with it they forgot to put that wire back? The other tilts do work except the one under the playfield. You want me to test the under playfield tilt by jumpering the same way from brown on SB2 to QB?

#63 8 years ago

I can see in the picture where the connection at both SB2 and on QB has been messed with, so maybe that's possible. It would be helpful to have a picture of another Control Bank using this setup for comparison. But since this is a 'dot or' function, I would have expected that switch on SB2 to have had two wires on the one tab (twisted together), with one going off to the tilt path, and one going to QB. But I can't confirm that.

Since the under playfield tilt doesn't work though, that suggests the open is somewhere on the path to it and back to QB. There's going to be a Jones plug involved in that path too.

So you could try to chase that down, or leave the jumper in place (or add a bridge wire) to make progress on other aspects. But since there's only one of those wires on the under playfield tilt switch, it doesn't seem like there's going to be a return from there to QB either.

Would be curious to know if the under playfield tilt works with the jumper though.

#64 8 years ago

Yeah that would be great if someone else could provide a picture of their reset bank in a similar game to confirm a bridge wire is missing. I will test the tilt with the jumper in place and report back. Thanks!

#65 8 years ago

I jumpered from SB2 Br-Wh-Red to QB Br-Wh-Red and the tilt under the playfield works. I guess I will install a bridge wire. Now that I have power going to everything I have a better idea of what I'm up against and it's quite a lot. Thanks to all for your input, especially DirtFlipper!

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