Hi Briehl
see the JPG - "encircled red" I marked an arm in my Replay-Unit --- when the Unit shall step down one step: This arm is moved clockwise --- a tooth on the arm blocks the gear / tooth on the wheel - the spring wound around the axis would like to turn the wheel counterclockwise all the way --- but the tooth on the arm hinders - the tooth on the arm allows only one step down. Do You also have this arm but angled away / wrong position ?

The "encircled green" --- hard to make a good picture --- on my Unit the "distance in-between the two metals 'framing my rosa/ pink dash' " are closer - they almost touch. Greetings Rolf

0replay-unit-work-01 (resized).JPG

Hi Briehl
hmm, no luck. Here http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=BOOK are several Williams books - the 1966 says on page-13 http://www.planetarypinball.com/reference/partsmanuals/WMS_Parts_1966/index.html#/13/zoomed the shown Replay Unit is first used in "Pot-O-Gold". Your pin is older - my Units are younger than Your Unit. (((And the 1964- and the 1962-book are not really helping)))
Thanks for the picture in post-14 - has on Your Unit - on the arm: Something broken-off ? I wonder what makes Your Unit to exactly step down ONE step ?

Not a fix - but some "work-around (?)" - You adjust the unit so it steps down correct - set the pin to free-play --- and live with the "faulty stepping-up" ? Greetings Rolf

Did you say it does decrement properly? Adjusting the limit screw on the step up coil is the key. The stroke of the step up plunger should be limited so that the ratchet lever goes back only one tooth on the toothed wheel. Then, it can only advance the credit reel one step. It sounds like you have done this already. If it works properly when manually activated, it has to be an electrical problem.

Could the torsion spring be wound too tightly? This could affect the decrementing, and you're compensating for it by misadjusting the step up plunger.

Is the game high-tapped by any chance? This is the type of problem that can occur when a game is needlessly high-tapped. I've seen a few similar incidents that were remedied by putting the transformer lead back to the normal tap.

Hi Briehl
I hope for another pinsider to chime in --- an owner of a pin from the time of Your King Pin.

I studied my Replay-Unit --- jrpinball in post-17 said it "on the step-up side".

I do not understand how in Your pin the step-down can work --- (I am german speaking - I found a nice german site) I show a JPG from a german site - see the first JPG --- the stepping down on the Replay-Unit is like an old mechanical watch tic, tic, tic, tic. The balance on an mechanical watch is the "3" and I added a "4a". Look here https://www.uhren-wiki.net/index.php?title=Uhrwerk - scroll down to the "yellow picture" and on the far right You see an animation - NOT WORKING watch. See how "3" and "4a" swing / move.

See the second JPG - the plunger (4b) is pulled-in, 4c and 4d and 4e follow the plunger - the mechanically attached "4a" also moves (to the left) and then the "4e" lifts the "3" --- one "tic" can be made
and then the plunger (4b) releases and the rest returns - another "tic" is made.
The "stepping down on the Replay-Unit" actually is (half-stepped) tic - tic.

Thats why is was asking in post-15 about something broken-off --- I can not imagine how the stepping can be done without an "4a".

Again - I hope for another pinsider to chime in. Greetings Rolf

0mechanical-watch (resized).png

0replay-unit-work-02 (resized).JPG

Hmm. When the increment solenoid fires it pulls in its plunger which in turn rocks the advance arm back just past one tooth on the gear. The gear and the credit wheel however don't move until the solenoid relaxes. So it's the energy stored in the two horizontal springs across the top, and the switch leaves activated by the advance arm, that actually move the gear and credit wheel forward to advance one credit. By adjusting the brass screw you're effectively adjusting how far the advance arm travels, and how much energy is released from those springs to advance the credit wheel.

I don't think the brass screw is intended to adjust the decrement side of things so I'd adjust it to reliably advance one credit at a time both manually and electrically.

This might be worth revisiting. It looks like the torsion spring (the one wrapped around the credit wheel shaft) is the only way to adjust the decrement mechanism. Once the brass screw is adjusted so the incrementing is working properly, I'd put the torsion spring on the lowest tension and methodically increase the tension to see if you can find a spot where the decrement works reliably. It looks like the hook at the base of the torsion spring can be moved from one spoke of the gear to the next so you can make adjustments in 1/3 turn increments. The initial problem in this thread (decrement only steps half way) sounds to me like the torsion spring didn't have quite enough tension.

/Mark

I wind it only enough so that it will still decrement from the first stop to the lower limit stop. If it's a little lazy doing this, add one turn. Of course, everything needs to be cleaned and lubed properly first.

I don't know if this is causing your problem or not, but do you see the small lever just under the step up ratchet lever? I think you have the spring pulling it in the wrong direction. As seen in the photo directly above, the spring is pulling the lever to the right. I believe that spring should be mounted on the tab about midway under the longest spring. This would pull that small lever to the left, as seen in the above photo. Try doing that.
Also, looking at the first photo, it looks like you should back off the screw a little more so that the step up ratchet lever is just resting against the step on the ratchet wheel.

Yeah, that's the one I mean. I'll have to double check one of mine, but if that's what's happening, I think you have one or more of the levers installed incorrectly.

I think the screw adjusts the add/advance arm, not the subtract/decrement arm. Did you try the suggestion in reply #25? (Adjust the screw so add works, then adjust the torsion spring to get subtract working.)

This is from the 1963 Williams parts catalog:

Williams 1963 catalog pg 015 (resized).jpg

Yeah, it looks like that small lever is in the correct position for a replay unit, since it's a step-up/step-down unit.
I don't think it really does anything for this type of unit.
The lever goes the other way for a unit that steps up, but resets to the starting position when the smaller coil is energized. Sorry for the confusion.

Thank you for posting this drawing.

Is it possible that the coil stop is incorrect? Essentially allowing the actuator pull back too far allowing the arm to travel back two teeth on the gear instead of one. This would also hold true if the plunger was incorrect/too short.

Problem seems to be in the travel distance. Electrically this would only happen if the solenoid was firing more that once at a time.

Hi Briehl +
I looked through my boxes of spare parts and found such an unit with "up to 47 Replays possible to add-up" - see the first JPG. Mine is gummed-up and a spring is missing - it is not working on its own - I manually must help. Chrimeg came up with an good idea - the Coil-Stop. In the second JPG You see both coil-stops taken-away - the "one in question" is the one in the lower right corner of the JPG. Surprise to me: They look identical - why different numbers in MarkG 's picture (in post-33) ? On my Unit both stops are 6mm (millimeter) thick. An inch is 25.4 mm - so 6 mm are a about 1/4 of an inch (0.2362). Greetings Rolf

0Replay-Unit-47-Positions (resized).JPG

0Coil-Stops-on-47-Pos-Unit (resized).JPG

To clarify what adjustments would affect the add/increment arm motion I zoomed in on a couple of the photos posted above:

KingPin3 (resized).jpg

In the top half, the credit unit is at rest and the add/increment arm has advanced the bottom of the gear to the left. How far the add/increment arm travels to the left to advance the gear is limited by the brass adjustment screw on the other end of the arm.

In the bottom half, the advance credit solenoid has pulled the add/increment arm to the right and is about to release it to add/increment another credit. The limit of travel for the add/increment arm when traveling to the right is determined by the coil stop and the length of the plunger. Some coil stops have oval mounting holes that allow some adjustment but I believe that's usually to hold the solenoid tight and not to adjust the travel of the plunger.

While it's possible that the coil stop and/or plunger are not right, it seems more likely that the brass screw which apparently has been adjusted isn't in the right spot. When properly adjusted, the add/increment arm pushes the bottom of the gear just enough to the left so that the next time the solenoid fires and the arm moves to the right, it moves just past the next tooth in the gear, enough to barely engage it and push it to the left.

I wonder in the disassembly and the reassembly did the coil stops get mixed up. Worth a try...plus the coil stop may be worn so even though the part numbers are correct, the specs are not be.

Remove both coil stops and measure them. If one is deeper that the other swap them around and see if is makes any difference.