(Topic ID: 312002)

Trouble with Panthera

By Boston

2 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 26 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Knxwledge
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 2 years ago

Hi Everyone,

I want to thank previous posters, I've had my machine for about 2 months and have read a ton of great information from you guys. Panthera's my first pinball machine, ( played a ton 78 to 82 and haven't played since) they tend to be pretty expensive in this part of the US so I had to wait for a good deal. My machine seems to be in solid shape, new boards, back glass refinished well, but I do have a problem.

Almost every time I turn the machine on after booting up it looks fine. When I start a game I get all kinds of weird behavior, all the displays are showing numbers the credits and ball in play are wrong, some displays flicker. If I play the machine not everything scores. Through trial and error I have learned that if I run diagnostics particularly the memory check and let the machine reset itself everything works properly.

I am nervous abut trying to re-pin and/or do the ground mods people suggest, so I am hoping someone can point me to other possible issues that would casue this. If I have to do the mods and re-pinning I will, so if thats what everyone decides I should do, let me know

Thank you all in advance,
Frank

#2 2 years ago

Do you have a working battery on your mpu board.

#3 2 years ago

Step 1: re-pin all the connectors
Step 2: re-pin everything you skipped in step 1

I would definitely do all the ground mods as well. System 80 is a tough first pin. Wish I had better news.

#4 2 years ago

The MPU board is new. I have looked for a battery or even a place for one and i don't see either. Since high score is kept and number of credits is kept I assuned the battery was replaced by other technology.

#5 2 years ago

yancy I really didn't want to hear that! Since I can play and enjoy the game as is, I will do that "someday". TY for feedback.

I enjoy fixing things but I am afraid I'll make things worse having so little experience with pbms.

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from Boston:

The MPU board is new.

Who manufactured the new board? It should still be under warrenty.

Is the power supply board also new?

#7 2 years ago

The board says Swemmer Electronics. When I say new I mean replaced before I bought it not long ago. Here are pics with closeup of a nasty looking connector.

The one of the backglass shows the wrong number for credits and ball in play. When you play it offers unlimited balls till turned off.

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#8 2 years ago
Quoted from Boston:

The board says Swemmer Electronics. When I say new I mean replaced before I bought it not long ago.

That board uses nvram no battery needed.

It does sound like the RAM is scrambled though it shouldn't give unlimited balls.

#9 2 years ago

Check voltages on the power supply board, do the ground mods, repin the connectors associated with switches and coils (I think repinning every connector is overkill unless you know you are having problems with them), see if there's a way to clear the memory on that board. Doing ground mods and repinning isn't that bad, get yourself some tools like a wire stripper, crimper, flush cuts, Hakko soldering station, then practice crimping on spare wire, and soldering on junk boards

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

That board uses nvram no battery needed.
It does sound like the RAM is scrambled though it shouldn't give unlimited balls.

I appreciate you pointing towards the NVRam. Did some more research here and noticed a few people with NVram issues from Swemmer boards. I'd like to try to re-set to factory settings. Does anyone know how to do that for a systems 80 machine? And/or with Swemmer boards?

#11 2 years ago
Quoted from Knxwledge:

Check voltages on the power supply board, do the ground mods, repin the connectors associated with switches and coils (I think repinning every connector is overkill unless you know you are having problems with them), see if there's a way to clear the memory on that board. Doing ground mods and repinning isn't that bad, get yourself some tools like a wire stripper, crimper, flush cuts, Hakko soldering station, then practice crimping on spare wire, and soldering on junk boards

Thanks for the advice. I will definitely practice then make it happen. Could someone point me to where I can purchase the proper Molex pins? Seems like there are a couple of types. I'd like to start with the ones on J6, where can I purchase those? I've done soldering but never tried repinning on anything.

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from Boston:

Thanks for the advice. I will definitely practice then make it happen. Could someone point me to where I can purchase the proper Molex pins? Seems like there are a couple of types. I'd like to start with the ones on J6, where can I purchase those? I've done soldering but never tried repinning on anything.

great plains electronics is the best source for molex pins.

Quoted from Boston:

I appreciate you pointing towards the NVRam. Did some more research here and noticed a few people with NVram issues from Swemmer boards. I'd like to try to re-set to factory settings. Does anyone know how to do that for a systems 80 machine? And/or with Swemmer boards?

Unfortunately doesn't seem to be a way to clear it factory. It is possible as well that it's bad, what kind of power supply do you have in the game? Swemmer indicated to me long ago that there is a surface mount transistor in that circuit to enable the nvram that blows relatively easily (or maybe it was a resistor? Really long time ago and I don't remember). At any rate, the power in is very picky on his board.

I prefer the originals for these games, myself.

#13 2 years ago

Another piece of information regarding this machine is that the seller told me it was set-up for free play. He had about 10 PBMs he was working on, so I assumed he was knowledgable. Anyways, he told me the game was set-up for free play. Having read here that free play wasn't an option on systems 80 I asked him by text and he confirmed he thought it was set-up for free play. It doesn't have free play, I need to put in a quarter and I get 9 credits. I actually prefer that to free play, feels more authentic, but maybe one of you knows if the Swemmer board can be set to free play? Perhaps that setting is messing with me?

#14 2 years ago

No you need custom software for free play or a physical solution. Pinwiki has the physical solution listed.

#15 2 years ago

The physical mod is discussed and shown in this TNT video, also.

#16 2 years ago

Thanks for the free play feedback. I actually prefer that I have to put a quarter in to get credits! I brought it up thinking it might help diagnose my problem.

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

great plains electronics is the best source for molex pins.

Swemmer indicated to me long ago that there is a surface mount transistor in that circuit to enable the nvram that blows relatively easily (or maybe it was a resistor? Really long time ago and I don't remember). At any rate, the power in is very picky on his board.
I prefer the originals for these games, myself.

Well if they are power sensitive, maybe I need to replace the Orange Filtering Capacitor. Yup I still have the old one. Is this:https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CCG-15000uF-25V a suitable replacement?

#18 2 years ago

It is super important to do a lot of these Sys80 mods if you want a stable game. It looks like you have the interconnect cable replaced and that is great. There might be some other suspect connectors lurking in there so you might want to consider repinning those as the other posters have mentioned. Is the power supply new or rebuilt?

#19 2 years ago

For what it’s worth I received a dead Panthera and did the following:

Sent the boards to a pro for bulletproofing.

Then repinned all the connectors.

The game worked almost flawlessly after this.

#20 2 years ago
Quoted from Boston:

Well if they are power sensitive, maybe I need to replace the Orange Filtering Capacitor. Yup I still have the old one. Is this:https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CCG-15000uF-25V a suitable replacement?

Any screw terminal cap in that general capacitance range will work, the value isnt super critical. It has to be 25v or higher though. That cap should be changed ASAP. Check if your power supply is rebuilt or new

For crimps it takes two different kinds depending on the connectors:
https://www.arcadepartsandrepair.com/store/pinball-kits-parts/pinball-parts/bifurcated-edge-connector-split-pins-18-24-awg-100-pack-me1004/
http://www.pbresource.com/molex.html GTB-0850-0105 (first item in the list)
http://www.docentelectronics.com/httpdocs/AmusementGames/Pinball/Gottlieb/system%2080.htm

#21 2 years ago

Knxwledge very helpful thank you. I'll replace that and let you guys know how it goes. Question can I replace the whole harness system?

#22 2 years ago
Quoted from Boston:

Knxwledge very helpful thank you. I'll replace that and let you guys know how it goes. Question can I replace the whole harness system?

Your interconnect has already been replaced. If the power connectors haven't been repinned/replaced I would do that. I think some of the power connectors take normal .156" molex instead of the special Gottlieb edge connector style. Or by "whole harness system" do you mean all the wiring? No, and that would almost be more work than repinning the edge connectors

#23 2 years ago
Quoted from Knxwledge:

Any screw terminal cap in that general capacitance range will work, the value isnt super critical. It has to be 25v or higher though. That cap should be changed ASAP. Check if your power supply is rebuilt or new
For crimps it takes two different kinds depending on the connectors:
https://www.arcadepartsandrepair.com/store/pinball-kits-parts/pinball-parts/bifurcated-edge-connector-split-pins-18-24-awg-100-pack-me1004/
http://www.pbresource.com/molex.html GTB-0850-0105 (first item in the list)
http://www.docentelectronics.com/httpdocs/AmusementGames/Pinball/Gottlieb/system%2080.htm

Found one on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/s

It is 50V 47000UF for $16. Will that be fine? I am having trouble finding a 25V.

Also, the power board and sound board have both also been replaced by a previous owner.

#25 2 years ago
Quoted from Boston:

Found one on Amazon: amazon.com link »
It is 50V 47000UF for $16. Will that be fine? I am having trouble finding a 25V.
Also, the power board and sound board have both also been replaced by a previous owner.

You can use higher voltage without issue. Just can't go below the recommended voltage.

#26 2 years ago
Quoted from Boston:

Better link to Capacitor: amazon.com link »

I wouldnt trust Amazon for electronic parts, but yeah 25v or higher

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