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(Topic ID: 222696)

Trouble with Bally Gator - need Reset Motor help!


By Dkjimbo

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 12 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Dkjimbo
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There have been 3 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

Gator Clutch Trip relay (resized).jpg
Gator Ball Return relay (resized).jpg
Gator Reset motor (resized).jpg

#1 2 years ago

I have been working on a very nice condition / complete Bally Gator. Ive got all the schematics and everything which have been hugely helpful I have gone through the entire machine, cleaning every switch/relay, ensuring score reels are clean and adjusted, all new rubber, lamps, etc. Mechanically the game is all there and gameplay functions flawlessly. My trouble is with the startup sequence. I am stuck and would appreciate any help! Here are the details:

Press "start button" - score motor starts, score reels reset to zero (again - all zero position switches are clean and working) but the score motor just keeps on spinning and spinning.

The reset motor never starts its rotation.

Based on the schematic, there are 5 things that trigger the reset motor. Clutch Trip Relay, Ball Return Relay, Free Ball Relay, Index #1 switch on reset motor, Index #2 switch on reset motor. All are normally open switches.

If i manually press the ball return relay or the free play relay or raise the switch stack that contains the Index #1 switch, the reset motor rotates, the score motor stops and game plays 100% normally.

The switches on the score motor associated with the clutch trip relay (which is on the reset motor itself) have been cleaned and adjusted.

The problem has to be in the start circuit or clutch trip relay circuit but i have gone high and low and not found the issue after many hours of cleaning, adjusting, recleaning, etc.

Here are a few other strange clues:

The start button sparks when it is depressed. Is there some sort of short? if so, could that play a role here?

There is a single switch on the reset motor all by itself all the way on the far end (toward the back of the cabinet - farthest from the motor) that rides on the cam disk that has one depression. As it sits, it is adjusted to be normally open. The thing is, in its current "home" position, the switch is open, when the reset motor rotates and that switch drops into the depresssion on that cam disk, it is still open so as presently adjusted, its impossible for that switch to close under any circumstances. The home position of the motor stops when the slot is just past the switch so right after the switch drops into that slot, the cam rotates another few degrees so that switch pops back out. Again - never with any ability to close. If i manually close that switch or adjust it to be normally closed and then open when it drops into the slot on the disc, the reset motor runs instantly on power up and just keeps running.

I am at a loss! Could the home position of that motor be off by a little bit? if so, how can it be adjusted? is the sparking at the start button somehow tied to this? Should this "mystery" stand alone switch ever close? The game has been unused in a home setting for over 30 years in its present state.

Anyone have any ideas?

Does anyone have this game and can please provide photos of your reset motor in "home position" paying close attention to the position of the single mystery switch and the 3 relays right next to it (start, game over, clutch)?

Could anyone post a video of the reset motor in a functioning version of this game for comparision?

Thanks all!!! Really hoping to wrap this up

#2 2 years ago

I'll need to see a high quality scan of the schematic from (for example) Staples ($2) or Kinkos ($6)

#3 2 years ago

Here is the schematic from IPDB. I can photograph mine for clarity or answer questions about anything you cant read on this. https://www.ipdb.org/files/987/Bally_1969_Gator_Schematic_Diagram_Continuous.pdf

#4 2 years ago

Do either the Clutch Trip relay or the Ball Return relay fire after you hit the start button?
Gator Reset motor (resized).jpg
I think one of those two should get the Reset Motor started. Note that the Ball Return relay won't fire unless the Outhole switch is closed.

/Mark

#5 2 years ago

If you manually activate the ball return relay and this starts the reset motor, then you'll need to look at the circuit that sends power to the ball return relay coil. The ball return relay is in the circuits for both the score motor and reset motor. Check the following switches that control power to the ball return relay:

Score motor 8B switch - red/white wire and white/brown wire
Score motor 1D switch - red/white wire and black/red wire
Ball return relay switch - white/brown wire and white/blue wire
Outhole switch - black/red wire and white/blue wire

Check for switch adjustments, shorting wires on switch stack lugs and make sure the switch stack screws are tight...

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Do either the Clutch Trip relay or the Ball Return relay fire after you hit the start button?
[quoted image]
I think one of those two should get the Reset Motor started. Note that the Ball Return relay won't fire unless the Outhole switch is closed.
/Mark

The clutch trip relay can’t do anything since the location of the cam at the home position prevents the clutch trip relay from droppping. The only position that allows for the clutch trip relay to engage is at the last few degrees of the reset motor revolution.

The ball return relay functions correctly but I do not believe it is intended to be the primary “action” that starts the rotation of the reset motor during start up. When a ball drains during gameplay the ball return relay closes and the reset motor spins And the ball is kicked back to the shooter lane. Part of the question here is which switch closure out of the potential switch closures in the reset motor circuit is supposed to be the one that starts the rotation of the motor during startup sequence?

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

Part of the question here is which switch closure out of the potential switch closures in the reset motor circuit is supposed to be the one that starts the rotation of the motor during startup sequence?

Agreed. But of the five possible switches that could start the Reset Motor during reset the one on the Ball Return relay feels most likely to me. Free Ball doesn't seem like a reset thing, and the other switches appear to be dependent on the Reset Motor turning already.

Just for grins, here's the Ball Return relay circuit:
Gator Ball Return relay (resized).jpg
Note that in addition to the Outhole switch it is dependent on switches on the the Start, Game Over and #3 Reset relays. The #3 Reset relay should trip once all the score reels reach zero. Does it? Do all of the switches to the Ball Return relay close when the game is stuck in reset?

#8 2 years ago

I think it’s narrowed down to clutch trip relay. I have gone through the circuit with a multimeter to verify all switches are working correctly. Still nothing. The relay won’t engage even though continuity and switch closures have been confirmed. What could be causing this?

#9 2 years ago

After testing the circuit continuity across all of the pathways to the clutch trip relay, everything is working and getting good contact HOWEVER the coil simply does not energize.

I checked OHMS with my DMM and it reads 1.5 while the adjacent, identical, known working coils all read between 7 and 8. I am thinking the coil itself is bad. Does that make sense?

#10 2 years ago

It sounds low... You can always swap the coils out to see what will happen. If you know the numbers for the coil, you can check the specs on a coil resistance chart:

https://flippers.com/coil-resistance.html

#11 2 years ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

After testing the circuit continuity across all of the pathways to the clutch trip relay, everything is working and getting good contact HOWEVER the coil simply does not energize.

Just so we're on the same page, did you check the resistance across each switch in the Clutch Trip relay path individually, or across the compete circuit as shown here:
Gator Clutch Trip relay (resized).jpg
If you checked switches individually the problem could be in the wiring, or through a connector etc. Checking the resistance across both legs of the entire circuit while manually activating the devices that should close the switches would be a little more comprehensive. You should be able to measure an ohm or so across the path shown when all of the switches on either leg are closed.

Another test would be to put your (preferably analog) multimeter across the solder lugs of the Clutch Trip relay on AC volts and see if you get an AC pulse during reset. You probably won't be able to measure the value, but seeing it jump from 0 volts would indicate whether it's getting anything. Alternatively you could string together four 12 volt turning signal bulbs in series and wire them in parallel with the Clutch Trip relay to see if they flash during reset. This is essentially Steve Fury's light bulb tester described elsewhere in this forum.

Quoted from Dkjimbo:

I checked OHMS with my DMM and it reads 1.5 while the adjacent, identical, known working coils all read between 7 and 8. I am thinking the coil itself is bad. Does that make sense?

The Flippers.com resistance chart shows the Clutch Trip relay should be 6.3 ohms, or the same as the Game Over Trip relay next to it on the schematic above.

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from fredsmythson:

It sounds low... You can always swap the coils out to see what will happen. If you know the numbers for the coil, you can check the specs on a coil resistance chart:
https://flippers.com/coil-resistance.html

I ordered a replacement coil and should have it tomorrow. I am so ready for this project to be done. I have never worked on an EM with this reset motor, I have only really worked on single player Williams or single player Gottlieb so this has been quite a project!!

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