Comic retheme or 66 tv show retheme?

Only Gary knows. But one thing is certain, they can't operate on Amazon sales logic with niche luxury sales. As long as there are currently buyers, pricing stays the same. Expanding production won't change that.

Lowering pricing to attract new customers is not worth the risk of profit loss per game they're currently making. They tried this with "The Pin" for the home market. The market spoke back, and they don't wanna deal with that customer base either.

According to who? Just you? You know sometimes it's easy to figure what's in the works you just need to find the right people (with consistently solid info) to listen to.

Just like with the whole SM VE conversation some knew it would happen and some plugged their ears and said impossible. I'm not sure on this but I thought you were in the camp that said SM VE would never happen. If I'm wrong on that I apologize. TRON is every bit as solid a rumor as Batman.

I said Spider-Man based on the old movies would never get re-run, and I was right. Art re-skin made sense.

Anyway, just remember this conversation when Batman comes out in a few months.

The Batman idea is so absurd, it must be real. I didn't believe WWE was coming either, but then there it was.

Taking the easy way out to avoid saying you were wrong but it's all good. No where did I say Batman would not happen but rather that TRON would. So not sure how an announcement of Batman would prove my statement wrong in any way.

The real question is why batman and no LotRVE?
I'm going to beat that dead horse alive

Hey, you forgot to post a link to the thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/holy-pinball-batman

This retheme looks excellent. I wanna see them convert the plunger to an Auto plunger and make the Launch button the spray nozzle from a can of Shark Repellent.

I agree LOTR makes way more sense. My thought on it is perhaps the license for LOTR is too hard or impossible to get right now.

Yep. I thought that too. It is the only game I've ever wanted NIB, so I hope it happens.

Just don't let Rarehero hear that kind of talk ...

...and there are also PLENTY of them out there. If you want one, you can get one. Everyone forgets that the reason IMve was made is cuz everyone HATED IM at first so they cut the production short. Plenty of Trons and LOTRs were made to fill demand. They're easy to get for anyone who wants one.

I'll stick to what I've always said. Tron is unlikely as it had multiple runs to fill demand, and the license is irrelevant as fuuuuuuck now. If it happens, it will be a Pro, like IMve. Everyone who thinks they're going to get a "cheap" LE - not going to happen. If it does, the entire premise of Stern's LIMITED EDITION crumbles & the collectors they count on to purchase LEs will vanish instantly.

You seem against all VEs. LOTR VE would sell as well if not better than SM and better than Batman IMO.

Regarding your second point, in no way would it affect LE sales. LE buyers will always buy LEs they can't help themselves lit ramps on TRON VE would not change that one bit. Not one bit. Looks like we will just have to agree to disagree on these points. Otherwise it will just become a circular argument. Respect your opinion just disagree with it.

Dude, I OWN ONE! I have Iron Man VE! I'm not against anything - I'm Pro LOGIC! I will repeat myself again. IM had a LOW PRODUCTION RUN. Demand was REAL. The other games everyone thinks have huge demand...they already made a ton of them! Demand was filled. Games can be found.

Would it? So many are available already, so many people have it already. A few people who don't want to buy used doesn't mean there is sufficient interest for a small run when the licensing cost is astronomical.

Tron LE came out when there were no Premiums, so the lit ramps are an LE exclusive. Stern runs a game with LE exclusive features...the LE model means NOTHING, and therefore has no added value for consumers. If there is enough demand for Tron, and Stern makes it again - there is ZERO incentive for them to include LE features. It will potentially hurt future sales of ALL titles and ALL models. "Why buy an LE now, they'll just remake it". "Why buy a Pro now, they'll just make an enhanced version in the future". No reason to mess with an extremely fickle audience.

Demand for LOTR is much higher than it ever was for IM. As you say there are tons of them out there yet prices remain above $5k. LOTR VE would easily outsell IMVE - if everyone's sick of LOTR how do you account for it dominating all the VE threads and polls? Doesn't mean licensing will work out, no one but Stern knows that (and maybe even they don't know yet). But if Stern makes it they'll sell just fine.

Offer any top 20 game NIB, and they'll have no trouble selling it. Reboots sell.

$5k is pretty normal these days for almost anything. I didn't say people are sick of LOTR. Don't put words in my mouth. I said there are plenty out there.

There are a handful of newbs who for some reason have convinced themselves they can only buy NIB games instead of a nice HUO or routed one to fix up. This is what accounts for all the VE talk. Is it enough to truly warrant re-licensing and re-running of games? Again - for IM, YES - because you couldn't FIND any used ones since they barely made any in the first place. There are like 6x more LOTRs out there than IM.

Anyway...when I quit Pinside a few months back, part of it was to avoid the timesuck of the endless speculation that never amounts to anything other than people NOT playing the games they can easliy just go buy.

Continue speculating about the same thing for years and years and years. Congrats to those who actually just go buy the games you want, play them and enjoy them!

LOTR is always in PlayMeter's top earners list, still. Iron Man hasn't been seen on that list in a long time (note: I have an original Iron Man I've pimped out with powdercoated armor, etc, so this isn't hating on IM). If LoTR is still earning on route enough to be on the top list every month, that's pretty amazing.

Yet here you are...do it all over again.
And we thought you just came back to piss & moan aboot people typing "Slimmer."

One thing is for sure, the price of a LOTRVE would be "Five-Hundred More!" at least. I just hope they don't update the clarity of the audio. I still want to misinterpret Gimli.

gimli_(resized).jpg

Lord of the rings is just so perfect in so many ways. If I had another $7k laying around, i'd buy a VE just so I could compare the two and keep the nicer one.

^^^.....Burn...!!!............Joey

If an asshole types and no one hears it, does it still make a sound?

Burn_(resized).png

We're grown men resorting to calling each other assholes over pinball....I love it....by the way anybody catch Kaneda's callout on Alrich.....it's down now...but was hysterical...............Joey

I did not intend to put words in your mouth. I enjoy reading your posts on Pinside, and if seeing the obligatory VE thread of the week will drive you back into retirement, I hope you'll consider ignoring or draining them instead. These threads are fun for many of us but they're only speculation, so no value added if you're not enjoying the conversation.

That said, I still respectfully believe that you're discounting the demand side of the supply + demand = price equation. Stern didn't remake IM just because it was relatively rare, they remade IM because it was selling for $6.5k and they saw a demand they could profit from by creating new supply. In that same vein I can't see how a ~$6k remake of a game that sells used for $5k (and happens to be a beloved top ten game that could benefit from sound and/or print resolution buffs) could be anything but a strong seller.

But we've had this conversation three or four times before so perhaps there's no point in rehashing it (until next week's VE thread that is).

But, most of them are beat up. And really, all used pins are still getting more expensive. I can see merit in runs of good names just to replenish the NIB stock.

You're forgetting the licensing factor. Whenever Stern makes a licensing deal, it's for a 3 year run with the potential of multi-thousands of units. There are no guarantees of production numbers, so the licensing agreements are fair. Once a game is deemed a big seller, the licensor sometimes wants more for a new contract, even though there's no way they're going to sell the same amount they did in the past. This is what kills small batch re-runs of games.

As for "beat up" games....you can buy a beat up game and make it brand new again. You should have seen a routed Elvis I picked up once...looked like someone dumped a bucket of tar on it. When I was done with it, it could pass for HUO and played BETTER than NIB...but cost half the price! I think some of the newcomers are missing out on a very rewarding part of this hobby: Snagging beaters and making them shine again!

TRON VE speculation is rampant - which is frankly why I would expect some sort of VE model. Feature list will make some happy and others not.

I have taken a wait and see approach - but to Rare's point: if you really like it get it now. It may never be ran again, and even if it is you missed time you could have been playing it. Where I disagree with Rare is that a TRON VE that is closer to a LE than a PRO would destroy the LE value, or future LE sales. I don't think that would be the case. But again, all opinions, and who cares...

Lit ramps is the perfect feature to add, along with a shaker and freshened up translite, to put out there at a premium price point. Makes no difference to LE owners whatsoever, as a vast number of pros now have lit ramps anyway.

Personally I think it will be a PRO with lighted ramps and updated decals/body armor. LE would still have the moving recognizer, lit apron, and Daft Punk multiball - which will keep it as the top TRON model (VE or not)

I just have to wonder if Stern does more VE in the future will they be SPIKE or SAM? SMVE and IMVE are SAM (LOTR Whitestar). If STERN does more VEs will they use SPIKE and implement color LCD?
If Tron VE gets made or BDK VE gets made, the only added flare (besides new tech) would be the implementation of a color screen. So, I don't think Tron VE will have lit ramps, but if TRON VE comes to light of day, I guess it would probably be LCD w/SPIKE w/o lit ramps?

I have to call BS on that. I am an LE owner that paid $10k+. I'd be pretty disappointed if the VE was identical to the LE other than a plaque.

It would hurt future LE sales for sure - what would the point of an LE be if it's not truly limited?

ACDC "LED" pro VE whatever the fuck got a moving bell...

So that settles it.

Tron VE will have lit ramps & chrome titties

There are more differences than the ramps. You know that. The LE is a "thing" that will always be the LE. If the only difference was the drop targets for example, then the model with the drop targets would still be the LE. And in Tron's case they actually ended up with a true LE in terms of relative sales volumes. I'm an LE owner as well, and more pros or VEs out there means that the LE becomes even more L. Not that I really care that much, but I think LE owners can ( and I think most are) rest easy in that the notion of the LE is not under threat.

There is no gameplay differences between a premium/LE so I would assume a VE would have the drop targets and DP multiball. But the lit ramps, chrome armor and 3D backglass are the bling items that I would hope would remain as an LE only item.

3D translite was on the original Pro run.

chrome titties? Does that mean it's going to have a Viper backglass? they are both sterns

Let me put you on ignore for a week and I tell you how it goes.

You guys must be joking. It might hurt the Tron LE inflated values but we are already past that point. Or I should say were past that point. Looks like GB LE's will get there. Anyway, even if the Tron VE is a cheap LE Stern will still sell a ton of LE's on any popular game. If they make a Star Wars LE it will sell out the first week. Plain and simple. People will be the LE just to own it.

Be my guest, I'll offer you the same courtesy.

Just because the Tron VE is gonna have lit ramps and daft punk multiball, doesn't mean that it violates the "LE Pact" between Stern and LE buyers. All other LE's and Premiums are the same except for cosmetics.

Stern could absolutely come up with a VE version that is more than a pro, yet leaves the Tron LE crowd as whole as any other LE owner.

Lit ramps crushes Stern's LE business model forever and ends their customer trust? That is laughable. Seriously.

Yep, some lit ramps on a Tron VE is gonna blow up the whole industry and send sales spiraling down the toilet for Stern.

Might even drive them right into bankruptcy.

I don't see what the problem would be even if a VE came out that had everything an LE had. It would still be different and the LE would still be collectable. Kind of like a first issue book is far more valuable than subsequent printings. Heck, already people mod their Pros to near LE levels considering the games play the same and I dont see that causing any major heartburn. I guess what I am saying is does the LE badge determine the collectability or do the features? Since features can always be added I say its the badge.

Worst case, yeah, if someone wants to sell their LE while the VE is being produced they might have a harder time selling for a premium but I think the moment they were no longer being produced once again people would be looking and willing to pay.

If Avengers didnt crush Stern nothing will lol

Bring on the TRONLEVE-V2.0 muhahahaha

Pretty much this. Hulk not smash.

BTW, I'm a big fan of VE's bring them on. I own 2.

Exactly right. It's just a premium edition of a game. It doesn't hurt them at all. They've been running premiums of other games. Back in black is worth a lot even though there is an ACDC premium (two different models of it to boot).

It seems to me that the biggest critics of a TRON VE release are TRON LE owners - not all of course. But I may be wrong - not unusual for me.