I couldn't agree more. There are plenty of sales on the table for Stern.

1) I think for TRONVE not to have happened by now has to mean there is something preventing it that the unprivileged don’t know, maybe something that is unlikely to ever change. For the record I don’t think a VE will happen (wish it would, pinball is fun, and that title in particular) simply because my understanding is new title releases continue to do very well overall. Assuming from a manufacturing standpoint it is simply way more convenient to keep making Spike2’s (and thus more profitable on the mfg side at least)

2) yes JAWS! Please! Auto blind LE purchase!

_~_~_~__/|__~_~_~

(The sea, with a fin sticking up, never could draw...)

I’d bet Stern *could sell* 300-500 Tron Vault which would be a pro version with full LEDs but no 3D translight and no lighted ramps. Price at $5595.

99% of the pins I've owned have been "shipped straight to my door" (from other collectors). I totally "get" why you aren't interested in driving all day and dealing with strangers (carrying bundles of cash

Part of the fun of pinball collecting is "hunting" for great games (and the collectors that baby/restore them). Pinside obviously enables this big-time. Learning how to evaluate games with photos is part of the fun. Most of us who buy/sell games are reviewed on Pinside...you have an entire community to support you. FS threads often help valuing a game (so you don't get ripped off).

I get your attraction to "Vaults", however the hobby would be really boring if you let it revolve around Stern stepping up Vault production. Personally, I'd much prefer Stern to focus their attention on building new/innovative games.

If people don't want to see TronVE made, there is one simple way to kill it. Sell me your Tron pinball for $4500. If enough people depress the secondary market, Stern won't think it is worth their time, and will move to more expensive VE, or a new title.

TronVE will happen because of the greed of buyers and sellers, working together, to raise prices. But if any noble person here wants to do their part to kill TronVE, please PM me and sell me your Tron pinball for $4500. I will do my duty to the pinball community and the greater good by helping lowering the market price by buying it from you.

(Full disclosure: I'm invested in a Tron pro) but seriously in the current climate of pending oversaturation/too much competition...really? TronVE would be standing still/microwaving while you're the big bully on the block with (in some instances) 10 or more times the infrastructure/employees...while JJP grows more entrenched with new titles, Deeproot gets going with new titles, Spooky keeps going with new titles inc. Danesi #2, Chicago Gaming releases their highly successful remakes...these little guys are growing and soon will be 20% 30% the size of Stern and Stern will start to feel it as a finite pie gets divided.

If I were Stern, I would keep pushing forward as we move towards market saturation. New titles, stay creative and relevant and get new stuff to operators (not selling a couple hundred Trons to pinheads). And try to keep market dominance. IMO 2019 isn't the time for vault editions.

I say this was some ambivalence, as I actually love quite a bit (and own) JJP and Spooky machines...but this makes more sense for Stern.

...and release TronVE maybe in 2023 or so when the storm is over and the market is depleted again.

Just my .02

That would be a catastrophe. Stern got the “it factor” just right with Tron and the call outs from Tron Legacy were perfect for pinball. The world under glass is there for Tron, why mess that up with going back to the original movie?

If a VE comes, I wouldn’t mind a better art package but it needs to stay focused on the newer movie.

I think every other pinball manufacturer combined is somewhere between 5-10% of the total pinball market for NIB machines. Suggesting that any of them are close to or will be close to 20-30% of the market any time soon seems unlikely.

I think Stern is a manufacturer first and a pinball company second. They will make whatever keeps the line running. If they need a VE due to a disappointing conerstone title or no contract game or for some other reason they will run a VE. If they don’t need to look backwards to keep the line running they won’t. Just my two cents.

Gluttonous? So the world is just overflowing with cheap, pristine Tron pins and Stern would have trouble selling new ones? Seriously? I see a few in the marketplace but non under $7000 and none available for shipping. Finding one is not that easy and always easier to just order a NIB on the phone and have it delivered with warranty. If I was looking for a Tron, I would rather buy a NIB than used every day of the week if prices were similar. I do question those that expect Stern to sell an upgrade Tron vault for current pro money or less. That's not happening. However, if there are people willing to spend $7000+ on a used Tron, I don't think Stern would have a problem selling a few vaults at a premium price. A few more Trons out there is not going to crash the pin market.

How do you know Stern got their "butt handed to them" on ST vaults? They probably did a small run of them to meet demand of some distributors. It was probably very easy to do so because ST was in production not long before. ST is a great game and there are people still looking for one. Same for MET. There are plenty of them out there but demand for new ones was strong enough to where they were in production for years.

To quote the movie, "Bad News Bears in Breaking Training"...

LET THEM PLAY, LET THEM PLAY!

I disagree. JJP titles are fantastic, deep and evocative. Spooky was homebrew but is getting better (would you purchase Munsters or ACNC? Not as clear a choice as you might think?). To each his own, but from my experience/collection including TZ, AFM remake, TNA, Tron pro, GoT LE, TS, TH with current code, STTNG...some of those are old but to flat out say Stern is superior is a bit much IMO.

Think Mcfly, think!

For the uninitiated such as myself, what is a Stern Vault?

I assumed it was a re-release but with bells and whistles, but people are talking about it being more like something that would fit in-between Pro and LE?

I have a Tron LE so would naturally be a little bit miffed about the value dropping precipitously, but not enough that I would want anyone not to have the opportunity to enjoy it - it is an awesome pin.

I'm just saying look at my collection. I have one pin now so clearly I don't buy often. When I do buy my next one I'd rather just get it shipped to me new. I don't have time in my life or money to fix on pins.

CGC puts out a very nice product. Last Stern I bought was ST pro and i wasn't super happy with the quality.

If Stern had done their homework they would have vaulted Tron or LOTR. They did say that they did ST because of constant requests from distributors , but were there really more requests for that than there are for Tron? I see vaults as potential filler games when there might be lull on the line. However, with the various side projects along with the cornerstone games there hasn't been a feeling of a lull. Hopefully they have a desirable vault lined up for when they need to fill a week or two on the line. There are a lot of nice new games coming out right now, so who knows how any vault would do.

Business sense would help Stern. Maybe a lot of people don’t want their current lineup of games I haven’t thought of buying a new Stern since ST. Those folks might see $6000 AFM Classic remake as the deal of the century. Or may see another competitor like Spooky or JJP has more desirable pins. Any sales Stern makes will come from a competitor or from Stern itself. If it steals sales from its own lineup at least it’s still going to Stern’s bottom line.

Stern will bulld a fairly loaded Tron Vault for $7,500 and hire part time employees to do nothing more than count all of the cash.

I've been buying NIB Stern's for 15 years...as a result, I know lots of distributors that have insight/data on what sells and what doesn't.

I get it, but pinball ownership involves fixing shit (NIB or not). I know you won't believe me, but I've spent more time "fixing" my IMDN Premium than most of my old school B/W games (that have been rock solid for many years). I also spent 1 month fixing/tweaking my DILE (a very expensive, NIB game). The point: pinball manufacturing has become "hit or miss" and this belief/dream that NIB implies flawless is a fantasy. I've owned well over 50 games...I speak from experience. All the games I buy are high-end show pieces...

Possibilities:

1. Demand isn't as high as Pinside thinks it is.

2. Licensing issues:
a. Disney doesn't care enough about the license to bother with it.
b. Re-licensing the Daft Punk music is too expensive for a low run Vault.
c. Re-negotiating actor likenesses might be too expensive/difficult for a low run Vault.

Generally Stern gets a 3-year deal for licenses. Historically, when a game is out of production, it's done forever. In the past, a few big sellers like Simpsons Pinball Party and Lord of the Rings had their licenses extended and games were made longer. Iron Man was the first game that was declared "dead" which later found massive popularity after the license expired, so Stern re-licensed it and called it a "Vault Edition" (kinda like when Disney movies come back on DVD or Blu-Ray...they're released from "the vault"). It had a few minor changes (new backbox design, metallic foil decals, re-molds of the action figures, light in Monger's chest, all LEDs). After that happened, everyone has been speculating constantly about every game getting a Vault re-release, especially the post-2012 new collectors who ONLY buy NIB, and can't imagine a world where they go out and find a previously owned machine.

1. Unlikely
2. Possibly

or

3. Pure speculation: It is being developed now and will be announced soon'ish'

Why are you talking about that like it's a fact? That's never been confirmed by the reliable rumor mill.

Not a fact at all - just a possibility is all.

I have zero evidence of a TRON or any other vault.

My point is - you gave 2 possible reasons (effectively) for why Stern hasn't done it.

1. Not enough interest in TRON vault
2. Can't secure licenses

I added a 3rd. The reason it hasn't came out is that they are still/currently working on it.

I will edit my former post to avoid confusion.

If Disney did not care about TRON, why would they be building a brand new TRON ride that opens in 2021 ???

Yeah.

Not only that - they are promoting the TRON rides opening to celebrate Walt Disney Worlds 50th anniversary. Makes me think 2021 may be the vault year - and not this year (or next). So again, it may be quite a bit longer wait for TRON VE hopefuls.

Cuz rides are cool? Universal Studios has a Waterworld attraction, FFS...theme parks are different than consumer products.

Tron 3 canceled.
Tron Uprising canceled.

They've given up on making it an ongoing thing.

Yeah I wasn't aware ride = upcoming movie.

But that's cool cause I've been praying for a Toad's Wild Ride flick.

Simply because it is a copy of an attraction they already got China to pay for... hence it's dirt cheap for Disney to deploy it in the MK where they desperately need capacity and some refreshes to take the pressure off Space Mountain so it can be rebuilt.

They are using TRON because it's 'future-y' - not because it's TRON.

My understanding is that the main reason for TRON 3 cancel was due to the Marvel Universe movies getting all the love and focus.
TRON uprising - have no idea - I don't even watch that show (even though I have seen 1 or 2 episodes). I couldn't get into it.

You may be right and Disney doesn't care for TRON as much - but would they reject a license for pinball due to that? They seem to be OK with it enough to poor millions into building the ride. So who knows...

Maybe they are selective. For pinball and amusement park rides it is cool - for movies and TV shows not so much.

They own the license - and it is well known (maybe not super popular) - so why not use it

Tron is Disney's red-headed stepchild. The theme has very passionate fans....but not many compared to their other characters and franchises. Every attempt to bring it back and make it a thing more people care about has failed. Disneyland had a Flynn's arcade for a little bit...but they tore it down. I thought Tron Uprising was great...better than the movies, IMO...but it's just too little too late. Had a show like that come out in the 90's when Batman: The Animated Series was big, I think it could have made a splash.

Point is... they didn't set off to say "you know what... we really need a TRON attraction for the MK!" - Instead, the existing TRON attraction fit their need and is still fresh as up until now, it's been a Shanghi Disneyland exclusive.

Starcade in DL was based on ... arcades. And it lasted until just recent years.. not really TRON attached even tho they have used TRON elements.

As part of the Dance parties created in DCA used to hold crowds until World of Color opened... they used the TRON theme in elecTRONica which was very popular as a dance party plus a replica of the arcade from the movie. But eventually the theme was replaced with the Alice in Wonderland theme... and it too eventually was closed down.

TL : DR - the Dance parties (and their themes) in DCA were always temporary entertainment.

I liked the Tron animated Series.
Hoping a second season is coming.

It may be a dead license - but I am still excited to see and ride it. It looks amazing - especially lit up at night!

https://www.shanghaidisneyresort.com/en/attractions/tron-lightcycle-power-run/?CMP=ILC-DPFY19Q1wo1101180001A

Why would Disney turn down easy money?

If anything, Disney is always about the money.

Can't wait for Waterworld VE. I'll wait till next year to start a thread.

The only thing that would excite me more than a tron v e would be a whole entirely new game based on the old movie.

Why wait

If there is one thing that America hates, it's future-y

song-of-the-south (resized).jpg

It's LONG dead. It was canceled about 7 years ago!!! The only action shows on Disney XD now are Marvel (Spider-Man, GOTG)

Well really I’ve watched the value of my Tron rise and fall many times. Each new run Stern did fluctuated the market. I could always tell when a new run was coming because there were a bunch of NIB available on the secondary market. Then the new run would happen, and they started climbing again. I never cared because it was Tron, and I always valued the game more than the price I could get. But at 7k for a game I’ve played a thousand times, of course I’d sell it. Anyone would. But if it doesn’t sell at that, I don’t care. Say they release a VE tomorrow and my Tron plummeted to being worth 4k. I’m still playing Tron

Lol, come on now, the toys on my Trons playfield are held in place by double sided tape!!

They need to remake this. There is a Tron Pro for $8500 in the marketplace. $8500!!!

No way it’ll sell near that, but still there’s lots of coin to be made.