TRON - Replacing disc motor with a higher quality one

It looks like the disk motor is the same motor as a shaker assembly has

041-5029-04 according to the tron manual

#5 10 years ago

RON

PiNDoCToR

Pinside member

11y 56,150 821

OP
Quoted from herg:
My motor was already loud, and it suddenly got louder recently. Replacing it does not seem like it would help, and long term, a better motor would probably be a better solution. Anyone else looked into this?
Based on specs, size, and appearance, it seems like this is the motor they used:
http://www.cf-motor.com/web/product_detail.php?sid=115

I've replaced a few of these for customers under warranty from Stern. The replacement motors are quiet for a while, then get noisy again. They use this motor for a number of things like shakers in different games. It's not the best motor for the spinning disc assembly. It's functional, but definitely noisy.

#6 10 years ago

SLC

Purpledrilmonkey

Pinside member

Is it a 12V motor?

I see it's driven by the 20V line but it has 4x 5W resistors in series with it which seem to add to a total resistance of 5 ohms when you sum them in their series/parallel layout. Without knowing the wattage of the 20V line I'm assuming the voltage divider is stepping the voltage down to ~12V?

A premium 12V DC motor shouldnt be too hard to source I wouldn't think? Mounting it might be fun... dunno how standard that would be.

I like this idea though. My game occasionally sounds like a leaf blower it gets so loud.

#7 10 years ago

HLT

herg

I'm pretty sure what they're using now is a 12V motor, though a 24V with the right specs would be more efficient and let us get rid of the resistors. The important specs would be the RPM (at close to no load), torque, shaft diameter, bearing type, etc. If it's spinning at the wrong speed, it would either throw the ball too much or not enough. If the torque's too low, the ball would slow it down too much.

#8 10 years ago

SLC

Purpledrilmonkey

Pinside member

From Stern Appendix F - Motors

"Pirates of the Caribbean

Spinning Disk:

Multi #3811R 0630 Motor (Vibrator) 12VDC
(041-5029-04) 3100 RPM (w/DRL PTS)
-04 is RoHS compliant; can substitute with -01 domestic"

This is the same motor in Tron

Dunno why this little project interests me but I'm happy to keep helping

#9 10 years ago

SJK

kickabit

Pinside member

Milwaukee, WI

11y 52,550 135 10

I like this idea too. The motor on my Tron has always been on the loud side.

Marcos has a pretty good shot of the POTC replacement motor with a manufacturer and serial number.
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/511-5024-04

Looks like:
93520
JOHNSON
363523

If that helps you out at all...

#10 10 years ago

HLT

herg

This Marco link matches the part number in the Tron manual:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/041-5029-04

Unfortunately, I can't find either of these two motors on the Johnson website to be able to get a full set of specs.

Brushed motors are louder than brushless, but the added complexity of brushless motors make them impractical to use here.

A motor that uses a bushing is typically louder than a ball bearing motor. I'm not yet sure which type Stern used in Tron, but I'd guess bushing, since they're cheaper.

Gearboxes create noise, but that's not the issue here. This is a direct drive motor.

The vent holes can also create noise, and a fully enclosed motor could be quieter.

#11 10 years ago

GWC

thepinballworks

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 117K 2,191

Pinball life has the complete disc assembly with motor and mounts.

#12 10 years ago

BTW

btw75

Inactive member

Round Rock, TX

10y 74,400 3,098 6 23

I hate not being able to research something like this - so I reached out to Johnson and will post any response.

-Brandon

#13 10 years ago

BBB

BillE

Inactive member

Bakersfield, CA

10y 37,150 329 4 8

Awesome thanks man, looking forward to the response, hopefully they can point you to an upgraded version

#14 10 years ago

SLC

Purpledrilmonkey

Pinside member

And then we can deplete their stock in 20 minutes haha. Good thread so far. Excited to see if we can improve on the weed whacker motor

#15 10 years ago

HLT

herg

Thanks for the great response guys! Hopefully we can come to a solution working together.

The Marco prices are ridiculous on these. The motors they're using should be like $20 - $30 max.

My mind keeps going back to R/C motors for one of the big crawler trucks, but everything is brushless these days. Plus, they all run way to fast to use without gearing. I know someone on here has to know more than I do on the subject.

I'm way more ambitious first thing in the morning, and in the shower, I was wondering how difficult it would be to make an inexpensive single speed ESC for a COTS brushless motor.

#16 10 years ago

BTW

btw75

Inactive member

Round Rock, TX

10y 74,400 3,098 6 23

Dear Sir / Madam,
Thank you for visiting our website and inquiring about the availability of
one of our products. All of Johnson Electric’s products are custom designed
to match the specific requirements of our customers. The final product or
model of our customer is in many cases unknown to us, since major global
companies utilize the same component across different brands.
Unfortunately, since these custom components are made to order, Johnson
Electric does not hold inventory for replacement parts.

Johnson Electric manufactures these components in very high quantities for
hundreds of global brands, who manage their own warranty programs
independently. Our website is designed to feature standard platforms that
could be modified to suit an equipment makers performance requirements, the
website is not configured for online sales. Johnson Electric also has a
distribution network that carries some of the more commonly used items.
This distribution channel is also focused on the industrial segment and
serves lower volume equipment makers. You may want to check with one of the
distributors in your local country / area regarding availability of the
part you are looking for. The link to distributors is shown below.

http://www.johnsonelectric.com/en/contact/our-distributors-manufacturer-reps.html

You may give them a try and also check our distributors’ stock of the
product by clicking the button on our web page:

#17 10 years ago

HLT

herg

btw75,

Thanks for the legwork. The response isn't terribly helpful, though, is it?

I contacted Holmes Hobbies who does low volume custom brushed motors for R/C cars, but they mostly deal with smaller motors than we need. I'll update if/when I get a response.

#18 10 years ago

HLT

herg

http://holmeshobbies.com/Holmes-Pro-Custom-540.html

OP
Quoted from herg:
Hello, I have a bit of an odd question. I am a pinball hobbyist/business owner looking for a high quality motor to replace a cheap motor in a pinball machine. R/C motors seem to be the closest fit in terms of quality without getting into industrial motors. The specs I would need don't exactly line up with R/C use, however. If something is available I'm sure that you'd be able to sell a number of them, I'd estimate ~100 over a few months, but that's really a bit of a guess. What is currently in use is a 12VDC brushed motor, 3100 RPM at no load, and most of the time it is running at nearly no load, just spinning a plastic disk. A pinball (80 grams) rolls onto the plastic disk, which needs to be thrown with force. As best I can tell the stock motor delivers about 60 mNm of torque at 2500 RPM drawing 1.8A @ 12V. If this project is of interest, I'd love to hear from you. Thanks Harold Toler.

John said,

Harold,

Is the disk spinning all the time? We could make such a motor, although hand winding it would be tedious as it would be 200 coils per lobe. A machine wound version could price about $35 each and be easily rebuildable when it goes out.

JRH

Owner, Holmes Hobbies/ Holmes Bikes

Here's an idea of the quality of their motors. This one has a number of things that don't fit our needs, but John is very responsive.

Finally, I found out today that if I apply a tiny bit of pressure to the end of the shaft on my motor, it gets dramatically quieter. I'm guessing that's because it takes some of the axial load off the bearings.

#19 10 years ago

BBB

BillE

Inactive member

Bakersfield, CA

10y 37,150 329 4 8

That $35 sounds like a great deal, see if he says anything about noise, bearing types etc... If they do anything in those departments to make it higher quality.

5 months later

#20 10 years ago

PCB

PaulyB18

Inactive member

12y 43,950 766

Any updates on this?

#21 10 years ago

HLT

herg