(Topic ID: 65072)

TRON - Replacing disc motor with a higher quality one


By herg

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 41 posts
  • 22 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 31 days ago by snakesnsparklers
  • Topic is favorited by 17 Pinsiders

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#1 6 years ago

My motor was already loud, and it suddenly got louder recently. Replacing it does not seem like it would help, and long term, a better motor would probably be a better solution. Anyone else looked into this?

Based on specs, size, and appearance, it seems like this is the motor they used:
http://www.cf-motor.com/web/product_detail.php?sid=115

#2 6 years ago

If you do it let us know how it works out, I'd be interested to upgrade mine if it helped with noise

#3 6 years ago

Interesting project. If/when you start disassembling your disc, let me know.
I'd be interested in partaking -- it's not as though it wouldn't be reversible..

#4 6 years ago

It looks like the disk motor is the same motor as a shaker assembly has

041-5029-04 according to the tron manual

#5 6 years ago
Quoted from herg:

My motor was already loud, and it suddenly got louder recently. Replacing it does not seem like it would help, and long term, a better motor would probably be a better solution. Anyone else looked into this?
Based on specs, size, and appearance, it seems like this is the motor they used:
http://www.cf-motor.com/web/product_detail.php?sid=115

I've replaced a few of these for customers under warranty from Stern. The replacement motors are quiet for a while, then get noisy again. They use this motor for a number of things like shakers in different games. It's not the best motor for the spinning disc assembly. It's functional, but definitely noisy.

#6 6 years ago

Is it a 12V motor?

I see it's driven by the 20V line but it has 4x 5W resistors in series with it which seem to add to a total resistance of 5 ohms when you sum them in their series/parallel layout. Without knowing the wattage of the 20V line I'm assuming the voltage divider is stepping the voltage down to ~12V?

A premium 12V DC motor shouldnt be too hard to source I wouldn't think? Mounting it might be fun... dunno how standard that would be.

I like this idea though. My game occasionally sounds like a leaf blower it gets so loud.

#7 6 years ago

I'm pretty sure what they're using now is a 12V motor, though a 24V with the right specs would be more efficient and let us get rid of the resistors. The important specs would be the RPM (at close to no load), torque, shaft diameter, bearing type, etc. If it's spinning at the wrong speed, it would either throw the ball too much or not enough. If the torque's too low, the ball would slow it down too much.

#8 6 years ago

From Stern Appendix F - Motors

"Pirates of the Caribbean

Spinning Disk:

Multi #3811R 0630 Motor (Vibrator) 12VDC
(041-5029-04) 3100 RPM (w/DRL PTS)
-04 is RoHS compliant; can substitute with -01 domestic"

This is the same motor in Tron

Dunno why this little project interests me but I'm happy to keep helping

#9 6 years ago

I like this idea too. The motor on my Tron has always been on the loud side.

Marcos has a pretty good shot of the POTC replacement motor with a manufacturer and serial number.
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/511-5024-04

Looks like:
93520
JOHNSON
363523

If that helps you out at all...

#10 6 years ago

This Marco link matches the part number in the Tron manual:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/041-5029-04

Unfortunately, I can't find either of these two motors on the Johnson website to be able to get a full set of specs.

Brushed motors are louder than brushless, but the added complexity of brushless motors make them impractical to use here.

A motor that uses a bushing is typically louder than a ball bearing motor. I'm not yet sure which type Stern used in Tron, but I'd guess bushing, since they're cheaper.

Gearboxes create noise, but that's not the issue here. This is a direct drive motor.

The vent holes can also create noise, and a fully enclosed motor could be quieter.

#11 6 years ago

Pinball life has the complete disc assembly with motor and mounts.

#12 6 years ago

I hate not being able to research something like this - so I reached out to Johnson and will post any response.

-Brandon

#13 6 years ago

Awesome thanks man, looking forward to the response, hopefully they can point you to an upgraded version

#14 6 years ago

And then we can deplete their stock in 20 minutes haha. Good thread so far. Excited to see if we can improve on the weed whacker motor

#15 6 years ago

Thanks for the great response guys! Hopefully we can come to a solution working together.

The Marco prices are ridiculous on these. The motors they're using should be like $20 - $30 max.

My mind keeps going back to R/C motors for one of the big crawler trucks, but everything is brushless these days. Plus, they all run way to fast to use without gearing. I know someone on here has to know more than I do on the subject.

I'm way more ambitious first thing in the morning, and in the shower, I was wondering how difficult it would be to make an inexpensive single speed ESC for a COTS brushless motor.

#16 6 years ago

Dear Sir / Madam,
Thank you for visiting our website and inquiring about the availability of
one of our products. All of Johnson Electric’s products are custom designed
to match the specific requirements of our customers. The final product or
model of our customer is in many cases unknown to us, since major global
companies utilize the same component across different brands.
Unfortunately, since these custom components are made to order, Johnson
Electric does not hold inventory for replacement parts.

Johnson Electric manufactures these components in very high quantities for
hundreds of global brands, who manage their own warranty programs
independently. Our website is designed to feature standard platforms that
could be modified to suit an equipment makers performance requirements, the
website is not configured for online sales. Johnson Electric also has a
distribution network that carries some of the more commonly used items.
This distribution channel is also focused on the industrial segment and
serves lower volume equipment makers. You may want to check with one of the
distributors in your local country / area regarding availability of the
part you are looking for. The link to distributors is shown below.

http://www.johnsonelectric.com/en/contact/our-distributors-manufacturer-reps.html

You may give them a try and also check our distributors’ stock of the
product by clicking the button on our web page:

#17 6 years ago

btw75,

Thanks for the legwork. The response isn't terribly helpful, though, is it?

I contacted Holmes Hobbies who does low volume custom brushed motors for R/C cars, but they mostly deal with smaller motors than we need. I'll update if/when I get a response.

#18 6 years ago
Quoted from herg:

Hello, I have a bit of an odd question. I am a pinball hobbyist/business owner looking for a high quality motor to replace a cheap motor in a pinball machine. R/C motors seem to be the closest fit in terms of quality without getting into industrial motors. The specs I would need don't exactly line up with R/C use, however. If something is available I'm sure that you'd be able to sell a number of them, I'd estimate ~100 over a few months, but that's really a bit of a guess. What is currently in use is a 12VDC brushed motor, 3100 RPM at no load, and most of the time it is running at nearly no load, just spinning a plastic disk. A pinball (80 grams) rolls onto the plastic disk, which needs to be thrown with force. As best I can tell the stock motor delivers about 60 mNm of torque at 2500 RPM drawing 1.8A @ 12V. If this project is of interest, I'd love to hear from you. Thanks Harold Toler.

John said,

Harold,

Is the disk spinning all the time? We could make such a motor, although hand winding it would be tedious as it would be 200 coils per lobe. A machine wound version could price about $35 each and be easily rebuildable when it goes out.

JRH

Owner, Holmes Hobbies/ Holmes Bikes

Here's an idea of the quality of their motors. This one has a number of things that don't fit our needs, but John is very responsive.

http://holmeshobbies.com/Holmes-Pro-Custom-540.html

Finally, I found out today that if I apply a tiny bit of pressure to the end of the shaft on my motor, it gets dramatically quieter. I'm guessing that's because it takes some of the axial load off the bearings.

#19 6 years ago

That $35 sounds like a great deal, see if he says anything about noise, bearing types etc... If they do anything in those departments to make it higher quality.

5 months later
#20 5 years ago

Any updates on this?

#21 5 years ago

Unfortunately, no. I never heard back from anyone I contacted, I got busy with other projects, and my Tron motor still sounds like it could die at any time.

9 months later
#22 5 years ago

Bump on this question. Is anybody have found a reliable motor ?

#23 5 years ago

I found this one on eBay, but I'm not sure if the characteristics are the same.
What do you think about it ?

Large 12V DC Johnson Motor, 3100 RPM, 300mA, 5 Pole, Size 770 77mm x 45mm 12VDC

New 12VDC Johnson Electric Motor
Voltage: 12v DC (nominal)
No Load @ 12v
Speed: 3,100 RPM
Current: 300mA
Max Efficiency @ 12v
Speed: 2,250 RPM
Current: 800mA
Stall @ 12v:
Current: 3,500mA (3.5A)
Size (Diameter x Length):
Canister: 45mm x 77mm
Shaft (ROUND): 4mm x 9.5mm
Weight: 12.8oz
Other Information:
5 Pole Construction
60 turns of 0.3mm copper wire per pole
2 Threaded Mounting Holes 29mm centers

ebay.com link » Large 12v Dc Johnson Motor 3100 Rpm 300ma 5 Pole Size 770 77mm X 45mm 12vdc

1 year later
#24 3 years ago
Quoted from Leo13:

I found this one on eBay, but I'm not sure if the characteristics are the same.
What do you think about it ?
Large 12V DC Johnson Motor, 3100 RPM, 300mA, 5 Pole, Size 770 77mm x 45mm 12VDC
New 12VDC Johnson Electric Motor
Voltage: 12v DC (nominal)
No Load @ 12v
Speed: 3,100 RPM
Current: 300mA
Max Efficiency @ 12v
Speed: 2,250 RPM
Current: 800mA
Stall @ 12v:
Current: 3,500mA (3.5A)
Size (Diameter x Length):
Canister: 45mm x 77mm
Shaft (ROUND): 4mm x 9.5mm
Weight: 12.8oz
Other Information:
5 Pole Construction
60 turns of 0.3mm copper wire per pole
2 Threaded Mounting Holes 29mm centers
ebay.com link » Large 12v Dc Johnson Motor 3100 Rpm 300ma 5 Pole Size 770 77mm X 45mm 12vdc

I'm sorry to resurrect such an old thread but did anyone try swapping out their disc motor with the one from ebay?

#25 3 years ago

I'd like to quiet mine down also. ..

2 years later
#26 1 year ago

Curious to know more too here, mine is loud as well unfortunately … But oiling this hasn't helped either?

#27 1 year ago

Will this motor work? Only $30 and you would need to transfer over your connectors+wiring.

https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=5038

5 months later
#28 1 year ago

Just taking a punt that no one ever got a better quality replacement working for this?

If it was Star Trek it could have been a 5 year
mission

3 months later
#29 9 months ago

5 years now....and the Tron motors for sure are not going better (less noise).....
Imho replacing the motor with the same model from Stern does not solve the problem. Same quality same noise...
Would be nice if someone was able to make a replacement with a better quality motor and can post details.

Thx and greetings

4 months later
#30 4 months ago

vise fvom yo gvave.. is there an alternative to the original motor? mine sounds like its gonna fly out and hit me in the face..

3 months later
#31 36 days ago

I have tried Stern Service Bulletin #169 (applied a few drops of machine oil at the top and bottom of the motor shaft). This bulletin is really for Pirates... but can also be used on Tron.

The oil did not help. Check out the two videos below. The sound is louder when the motor is in place. First I thought that the disc touches the sides but that is not the case.

Any ideas?

-1
#32 36 days ago
Quoted from nibre:

I have tried Stern Service Bulletin #169 (applied a few drops of machine oil at the top and bottom of the motor shaft). This bulletin is really for Pirates... but can also be used on Tron.
The oil did not help. Check out the two videos below. The sound is louder when the motor is in place. First I thought that the disc touches the sides but that is not the case.
Any ideas?

The Stern Service Bulletin worked great for my motor. Since it's not working for you, it's a cheap part to replace (https://www.pinballlife.com/replacement-motor-for-stern-shaker-kits.html).

#33 36 days ago

Isn't it this one?

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/511-5190-00

According to comments above, changing the motor won't solve the problem in the long run...

#35 33 days ago

Not if you buy the motor for $30 from PBL, that is by far the cheapest option. Just swap over your wiring.

#36 33 days ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

Not if you buy the motor for $30 from PBL, that is by far the cheapest option. Just swap over your wiring.

The SHAKER motor? Are you guys sure that's the same damn part? It seems ludicrous that Marco would be 80 bucks more expensive than PBL on the exact same part.

#37 33 days ago

If it is a rattling issue due to excess play/slop on the shaft, can't the same principle of fixing a rattling spinning disc from X-Men be used here?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-fix-xmen-le-spinning-disc-rattle

You just buy an e-clip from HomeDepot for around $0.30 and put it on the shaft to take up excess slop and minimize the rattle and hence the noise. I've done it on my X-Men LE and it fixed the problem. I haven't bothered yet to look at the Tron to see if the same fix will fit.

Can anyone chime in.

#38 32 days ago
Quoted from kungfucop:

If it is a rattling issue due to excess play/slop on the shaft, can't the same principle of fixing a rattling spinning disc from X-Men be used here?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-fix-xmen-le-spinning-disc-rattle
You just buy an e-clip from HomeDepot for around $0.30 and put it on the shaft to take up excess slop and minimize the rattle and hence the noise. I've done it on my X-Men LE and it fixed the problem. I haven't bothered yet to look at the Tron to see if the same fix will fit.
Can anyone chime in.

I did this on both my Trons when I owned them. Granted...at that point, neither game had more than 1k plays. I'm not even sure they had more than 1k plays between the two of them, so time is likely a factor here on wear and tear. I was just being preemptive about it, because those discs were ALWAYS loud.

#39 32 days ago
Quoted from Frax:

The SHAKER motor? Are you guys sure that's the same damn part? It seems ludicrous that Marco would be 80 bucks more expensive than PBL on the exact same part.

Marco prices are often ludicrous...

#40 31 days ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Marco prices are often ludicrous...

Not 400% ludicrous.

#41 31 days ago
Quoted from Frax:

The SHAKER motor? Are you guys sure that's the same damn part? It seems ludicrous that Marco would be 80 bucks more expensive than PBL on the exact same part.

Yes. Same motor used for shakers and spinning disc.

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