(Topic ID: 17422)

TRON Halmark Light Cycles question


By marksf123

7 years ago



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  • 100 posts
  • 34 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Sc1f1
  • Topic is favorited by 16 Pinsiders

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    There are 100 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
    #51 7 years ago

    The PIG offers both 5v or 12v power. Each output allows you to set it to always on or always off. Then, each output can also be connected to a switch, light or whatever trigger you care to use and, if the current setting is on (like a lightcycle) triggering the switch or bulb will turn it off, and vice versa.

    Watch the video on their site to see how the Flynn sign mod is turned off and on as the recogniser bank drops up and down.

    #52 7 years ago

    I would love to see some pics of where you tap into under the playfield

    #53 7 years ago

    I did this and they are probably getting too much voltage. Not sure as I have a LEDs installed and piggy backing off of them. I think they are being fed 6.7 Volts each

    IMG_0530[1].JPG IMG_0529[1].JPG

    #54 7 years ago

    I'm lost. Can someone send me a link to the "PIG"?? I have no idea what you are talking about when referencing it.

    #55 7 years ago

    I'm lost. Can someone send me a link to the "PIG"?? I have no idea what you are talking about when referencing it.

    Here is a link as well.

    http://www.dkpinball.com/DKWP/?page_id=181

    PIG_picture-300x197.jpg

    #56 7 years ago

    Hank527, thanks for posting that picture. Are those alligator clips or just wires shoved into socket? The boots look like the alligator style ones, thanks

    #57 7 years ago
    Quoted from hank527:

    I did this and they are probably getting too much voltage. Not sure as I have a LEDs installed and piggy backing off of them. I think they are being fed 6.7 Volts each

    Okay, this is me pretending like I know something

    I tried an online calculator. I do not have any information on the voltage of the LED in the lightcycle, but I tried two options. If the LEDs in the cycle are the standard 3.3v variety at 20mA, the resulting resistor required with 6.3v of incoming current is a 150ohm / 1/8w

    The cycle's 3 batteries add up to 4.5v, so if you use that at 20mA and the same incoming voltage of 6.3, you will need this resisitor 100ohm / 1/8w. I'm guessing this is the correct way to go. Even if the LEDs in the cycle are 3.3, two batteries would not be enough voltage to run them, so they likely added a 3rd battery to get it up to 4.5v and there might be a resisitor inside the bike to get it down to 3.3. This would mean we would have to use the 100ohm / 1/8w to get the game's 6.3 down to 4.5.

    I'll have to go back and check the Hallmark packaging and see if there is any info there.

    The 150 ohm might provide too much reisistance? I have some at home and might try to mock something up this weekend. If I can make these last a lot longer and prevent having to do this again, I'm all for it. Maybe I'll swing by my local electrical supply and get the other resistor too. I'll report back next week.

    Here's the calculator
    http://led.linear1.org/1led.wiz

    #58 7 years ago

    They are alligator clips. To verify they are wired correctly you will have to go into test mode and cycle all the lights. If they are correct all lights will work. If they are wired backwards different lights will light up different areas from some back feeding.

    Buttons do not need to be superglued

    #59 7 years ago
    Quoted from hank527:

    Buttons do not need to be superglued

    Huh? I was going to install tonight, and everything I've read points to either supergluing or soldering the plastic to keep the button held down. Is this not the case?

    #60 7 years ago

    I tried to to use the superglue gel to glue done the button but it seemed messy and made the black plastic come off. I decided to use a solder gun to melt the button. You cant really notice when it is on the game. Not sure about not having to keep the button pressed in. Mine definitely did not work with out the button melted down. I tried it both ways.

    P1030824.JPG P1030825.JPG

    #61 7 years ago

    http://www.hookedonhallmark.com/2010-Light-Cycle--Magic-_p_32145.html

    still reasonably priced for the blue cycle - i just ordered mine

    #62 7 years ago
    Quoted from thePLAyNone:

    http://www.hookedonhallmark.com/2010-Light-Cycle--Magic-_p_32145.html

    still reasonably priced for the blue cycle - i just ordered mine

    Yes that is where I got mine - I bought a couple of extras.

    #63 7 years ago

    I found 2 blue ones in the clearence bin at a Hallmark in Bismarck, North Dakota and I got them for $2.00 each! They only had 2 and I bought them both. And I found one here (Winnipeg) broken (also blue) for $1.00 and it was missing an arm that you don't see, but I still don't really want to use that one. I'm still missing the Clu one. If anyone has an extra Clu and would like to trade for the extra blue one I have let me know......

    #64 7 years ago

    Just thought I'd update. I installed these by wiring into the inserts on my Tron LE. I soldered directly to the little LED board and everything appears OK. I tried to put my meter on there and get a voltage reading. It only showed 2 volts but the inserts flash and dont just light. So I'm guessing it has to do with the algorithm of the meter. In any case, we'll see how they hold up attached to these inserts without any resistor.

    #65 7 years ago

    I have a couple questions. I am no expert on electronics, solder, current etc., but learning. I have wired the bikes and used a small wooden skewer to jam the button on. I have tested them individually on my coin box lights (6.3v) I assume since that is what bulbs are in there, they lit perfectly. I tried installing them on their platforms in the game. I then ran the wiring from both bikes into two ends (1+, 1 -) with wires from both bikes tied together. I tried to wire into light cycle insert with no luck. This was when game was in non playing mode and all inserts were flashing. Would that be enough to power both bikes? or for that matter even 1. After both did not light up I tried individually and neither bike lit. I did not try testing in individual lamp mode, because I thought since insert was flashing (so were all other inserts) the bikes would flash also.

    My question is, if I tied bikes together would I need 9v or more? I assume I would since individually it takes 4.5v.

    If the above is true. I would wire to separate inserts I guess. Would these work in attract mode when all inserts are flashing or is this a lower power mode?

    Where do you run your wires (photos if possible) Hoping to see a better, more hidden route then I had selected to get from top of playfield to underside.

    #66 7 years ago

    Did you try swapping the wires? They are polarized and only work one way. One insert is plenty power to run two led cycles you have a tron pro or LE?

    Also, for anyone doing this. The button cover actually snaps off. You can then Hotwire the switch and snap the cover back on. No need for glue to such.

    #67 7 years ago

    I have a pro and I did not try switching the wires. I did try together, then each cycle individually and must have had all 3 attempts backwards because none worked. I have re hooked up bikes and routed my wires (very happy with my path this time) I took pictures and will post. I have wires all ready to go just not plugged into inserts. I believe I am going to go into two separate inserts, just for convenience since the wires are routed quite away apart from each other.

    I am still trying to figure the best way to ties into inserts. I could go the way that hank did, but would need to get some small alligator clips. Any other options for tying in that would be a clean install? Thought about doing it the way I tested on coin door bulbs. Just shoving wires into bulb socket and pushing bulb back in to hold wires in place. Not exactly a clean install though

    #68 7 years ago

    Are you guys confusing the 6.3v AC from a regular (Pro) insert bulb vs. a 5v DC LED (LE) insert?

    When you are talking about hooking something up, make sure you clarify LE vs. Pro. Big difference.

    Remember that these Hallmark light cycles are DC. Not AC.

    #69 7 years ago

    Okay. I do have a pro. I have done a full led swap (not sure if that makes a difference)

    #70 7 years ago
    Quoted from ChadH:

    Are you guys confusing the 6.3v AC from a regular (Pro) insert bulb vs. a 5v DC LED (LE) insert?
    When you are talking about hooking something up, make sure you clarify LE vs. Pro. Big difference.
    Remember that these Hallmark light cycles are DC. Not AC.

    Hey Chad,
    The example above with the alligator clips is going right into the pro insert bulb. Are you saying it won't work if wired directly into a pro insert socket?

    #71 7 years ago

    Mine have been wired to the insert sockets on my pro since April. No issues so far.

    #72 7 years ago
    Quoted from Drano:

    Hey Chad,
    The example above with the alligator clips is going right into the pro insert bulb. Are you saying it won't work if wired directly into a pro insert socket?

    I guess maybe I am missing something.

    The Hallmark light cycles normally run on 4.5v to 5v DC (3 x 1.5v batteries).

    The Tron Pro inserts are running on, I believe, 6.3v AC. So, I would think that would be a problem hooking up the light cycle to the Tron Pro insert... but then others are saying that it works. I worry about that though. Maybe it works but isn't ideal?

    I do know the TRON LE inserts (surface mounted LEDs) are running at the same 4.5v to 5v DC so there is no concern there as far as directly hooking them up.

    Can someone clarify?

    #73 7 years ago
    Quoted from ChadH:

    Are you guys confusing the 6.3v AC from a regular (Pro) insert bulb vs. a 5v DC LED (LE) insert?
    When you are talking about hooking something up, make sure you clarify LE vs. Pro. Big difference.
    Remember that these Hallmark light cycles are DC. Not AC.

    This is really a good point. When I had my tron pro, I went through 3 yellow cycles. They worked, then a week or two later stopped working. Good chance this is the reason. I also didn't think through AC vs DC. But it seems the cycles are ok with AC voltages as they do work. But there may be a conversion on amount of voltages required going from DC to AC. If I were doing this on a pro, I think I'd try inserting a resistor as suggested by Drano.

    Quoted from Toasterdog:

    I have a pro and I did not try switching the wires. I did try together, then each cycle individually and must have had all 3 attempts backwards because none worked. I have re hooked up bikes and routed my wires (very happy with my path this time) I took pictures and will post. I have wires all ready to go just not plugged into inserts. I believe I am going to go into two separate inserts, just for convenience since the wires are routed quite away apart from each other.
    I am still trying to figure the best way to ties into inserts. I could go the way that hank did, but would need to get some small alligator clips. Any other options for tying in that would be a clean install? Thought about doing it the way I tested on coin door bulbs. Just shoving wires into bulb socket and pushing bulb back in to hold wires in place. Not exactly a clean install though

    On the pro, make sure you take into account the diode. I believe each insert has a diode pin on the light socket. If you bypass the diode, the cycle will work but you will create ghost lighting on other inserts which you can then see in something like single lamp test where when one light comes on so do others that should not be on. In short, you will want to attach to the wires that go directly to the light. And they are polarized, so you probably did have them wrong all 3 times. I had that problem actually

    #74 7 years ago
    Quoted from ChadH:

    I guess maybe I am missing something.
    The Hallmark light cycles normally run on 4.5v to 5v DC (3 x 1.5v batteries).
    The Tron Pro inserts are running on, I believe, 6.3v AC. So, I would think that would be a problem hooking up the light cycle to the Tron Pro insert... but then others are saying that it works. I worry about that though. Maybe it works but isn't ideal?
    I do know the TRON LE inserts (surface mounted LEDs) are running at the same 4.5v to 5v DC so there is no concern there as far as directly hooking them up.
    Can someone clarify?

    Chad, thanks for the heads up with this. I'll look into this hook up more closely to see if there's an issue. Are you sure these inserts are AC?

    #75 7 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    On the pro, make sure you take into account the diode. I believe each insert has a diode pin on the light socket. If you bypass the diode, the cycle will work but you will create ghost lighting on other inserts which you can then see in something like single lamp test where when one light comes on so do others that should not be on. In short, you will want to attach to the wires that go directly to the light. And they are polarized, so you probably did have them wrong all 3 times. I had that problem actually

    Thanks for clarifying Mark. I am about as far away from knowing anything about electronics as you can get but, in the earlier pictured example with the alligator clips, if the lightcycle's wires are attached to the same contacts as the game's wiring, they're not bypassing the diode... is that correct?

    Someone really needs to come up with a plug and play version of this mod before someone blows up their Tron

    #76 7 years ago
    Quoted from Drano:

    Thanks for clarifying Mark. I am about as far away from knowing anything about electronics as you can get but, in the earlier pictured example with the alligator clips, if the clips are attached to the same contacts as the game's wiring, they're not bypassing the diode... is that correct?
    Someone really needs to come up with a plug and play version of this mod before someone blows up their Tron

    First, if you bypass the diode, you won't blow anything up. What will happen is everything will appear to work. But when you go into single lamp test and light up only one light cycle, other lights will also be lit. And other lights on the same row or column may light other lights also. All caused by bypassing one diode. So if your cycle works and you only light up one light in the single lamp test, you are good to go. If not, try the other lug

    #77 7 years ago

    Cool.
    Sounds like the same thing that happened to my TZ when I had a busted diode on one of the ramp switches. The game started reading my left ramp as the ball lock. It made for some very easy multi-balls, but it was clear that the diode was allowing signals to be read incorrectly up the matrix. Same principle I guess.

    More and more I think I should just stick with my original plan of wiring both cycles into the PIG. It has a regulated 5v output (I believe ?) and I can simply use the lead (signal) wire to connect to the insert light to provide the on/off signal.

    #78 7 years ago
    Quoted from Drano:

    Cool.
    Sounds like the same thing that happened to my TZ when I had a busted diode on one of the ramp switches. The game started reading my left ramp as the ball lock. It made for some very easy multi-balls, but it was clear that the diode was allowing signals to be read incorrectly up the matrix. Same principle I guess.
    More and more I think I should just stick with my original plan of wiring both cycles into the PIG. It has a regulated 5v output (I believe ?) and I can simply use the lead (signal) wire to connect to the insert light to provide the on/off signal.

    Sounds like the pig is a good solution. But you are also probably ok doing some resistance and lowering your voltage and hooking up to the inserts. Maybe shoot for 3.5v in resistance and see how it works from there. If the resistance is too low, the symptoms will be that the cycle wont light well. I don't think you're risking anything breaking here. And the yellow cycle is still readily available.

    #79 7 years ago
    Quoted from Drano:

    More and more I think I should just stick with my original plan of wiring both cycles into the PIG. It has a regulated 5v output (I believe ?) and I can simply use the lead (signal) wire to connect to the insert light to provide the on/off signal.

    This is definitely the way to go.

    #80 7 years ago

    Also these pigs seem to be unavailable to purchase so not everyone can get them.

    #81 7 years ago
    Quoted from ChadH:

    This is definitely the way to go.

    Sounds like it, but it will eat up two of my four slots on the PIG. I just have to be very selective with what I do on the two remaining outputs.

    The nice thing about the direct wired option is that I'm not adding any additional load to the game's 12v supply that feeds the PIG. The lightcycles just run off the lamps.

    I already have all the necessary resistors to try everything from 4.5 to 3.3, so I might just give it a try anyway.

    #82 7 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    Also these pigs seem to be unavailable to purchase so not everyone can get them.

    Mike shipped out the early pre-orders. I expect he's got to order/make more of them before he can start selling them again.

    1 week later
    #83 7 years ago

    Keep us informed I'm in the middle of a restore. Got my Tron pro on the rotisserie now and adding all the bells and whistles and I have the PIG too. So I'm curious as to where everyone else goes with their power.

    #84 7 years ago

    I'm getting some quotes from a manufacturer so I can stop sweating getting PIGS built and start designing again.

    I'm currently all caught up and I have a few ready to ship if I get orders.

    It's tough to say exactly how far "outside the lines" you can go with the light cycles. The safest bet is to get as close to a 4.5v DC power supply as you can. If the chip they're using to control the on/off timer is designed to run on 5v dc, then peaking at 6.3v is less likely to damage anything than if it's running on chip(s) designed to run at 3.3v dc.

    If you're running a TRON LE, the best solution (cheapest and reasonably safe) is to determine the current draw of the light cycle, and then choose the appropriate resistor to drop the 5v to 4.5v, and solder directly to the LED insert boards.

    If you're running a TRON PRO, the easiest safe solution would be to buy a PIG to drive the light cycles. You still need to choose the appropriate resistor to drop the voltage to 4.5v. The cheapest solution is to create a small circuit with a bridge rectifier, a capacitor to smooth the voltage, and a couple of resistors to act as a voltage divider to convert the 6.3v AC to 4.5v dc. However, you're not going to get as clean a 4.5vdc this way as the light matrix is noisy as hell compared to the 5v coming from the game's power supply.

    If it were my game, the PRO that is, I would use the PIG and just go with the 5v and not worry about getting 4.5v. I'm sure the .5v variance (10%) is within manufacturers spec and would work fine.

    If I had an LE. I would just use the 5v coming off the inserts, again, without worrying about dropping it to 5v.

    One guy's opinion.

    Thanks,

    Mike

    #85 7 years ago

    If you have an LE you can solder directly to the wires on the insert board with no resistors.

    #86 7 years ago

    Thanks for the input Mike. Great info as usual. That was my plan is to go with the 5v straight from the PIG. I'm wondering about an EL mod I'm doing (not the ramps). If the on and off is bad for the inverter. I may go straight to 12v and have it on all the time i tried plugging it in on and off a couple times to see how fast the EL reacted and it was pretty cool.

    Love the PIG BTW

    #87 7 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    If you have an LE you can solder directly to the wires on the insert board with no resistors.

    +1 to that.

    That's what I did months ago and still have no issues

    #88 7 years ago

    You guys are great! Thanks for the info. However...when you glue the buttons down on the light cycles does'nt that kill the batteries and then make them prone to leaking? Would we be better off getting wires to somewhere else in the lightcycles and removing the batteries?

    #89 7 years ago
    Quoted from playernumber4:

    You guys are great! Thanks for the info. However...when you glue the buttons down on the light cycles does'nt that kill the batteries and then make them prone to leaking? Would we be better off getting wires to somewhere else in the lightcycles and removing the batteries?

    Huh?

    #90 7 years ago
    Quoted from playernumber4:

    You guys are great! Thanks for the info. However...when you glue the buttons down on the light cycles does'nt that kill the batteries and then make them prone to leaking? Would we be better off getting wires to somewhere else in the lightcycles and removing the batteries?

    You remove batteries and wire into game power.

    #91 7 years ago
    Quoted from playernumber4:

    You guys are great! Thanks for the info. However...when you glue the buttons down on the light cycles does'nt that kill the batteries and then make them prone to leaking? Would we be better off getting wires to somewhere else in the lightcycles and removing the batteries?

    Scroll up just a little and notice the wires coming out of the light cycles in the pictures

    #92 7 years ago

    I dont know if you guys saw this or not but I thought I'd add to the thread. James has pictures with wiring on his page here:

    http://www.cnypinballpleasure.com/tron.html

    What James did is wire both Hallmark cycles in "series" or daisy-chaining them together. He connected them to the auxillary 5V DC in the cabinet. Wiring the cycles in series allows for the current to be the same to each cycle. Both cycles are lit continuously.

    The other options for running them off the inserts would work if you are a Tron LE owner. The LE's are using LED's for the insert and would keep the power simular ie. 5V DC.

    If youre a PRO owner I wouldnt plug into the insert since its 6.3V AC using an incandesent bulb. The Diode's will work but eventually burn out because the higher voltage.

    Mike
    www.HabosArcade.com

    #93 7 years ago

    I think that's why we've been talking about using resistors for pro owners.
    I've been meaning to try it but got busy. Also, using the PIG might just be so much easier.

    #94 7 years ago

    PIG is the way to go... It's not actually a mod per say but I think it is and probably the coolest aftermarket product for pins I've seen in a while. I love the PIG!

    #95 7 years ago

    "I love the PIG!"

    The PIG loves you too.

    Drano: "Also, using the PIG might just be so much easier. "

    Really that was the reason I made it. You can solve any problem more cheaply yourself. However, the PIG is meant to make integrating mods into your machine neat, safe, and easy.

    1 week later
    #96 6 years ago

    @marksf123 et. al. where do you find the cables and connectors for doing the 5V wiring? I love the clean look of the braided wires, but don't know where to get the parts required. Thanks for any advice!

    #97 6 years ago
    Quoted from bjorg:

    @marksf123 et. al. where do you find the cables and connectors for doing the 5V wiring? I love the clean look of the braided wires, but don't know where to get the parts required. Thanks for any advice!

    bjorg,

    I just bought wire from radio shack - i just wrapped (braided) the wires together and used some shrink tubing (also radio shack) around the wires to hold them together. I bought Kimbals splitter (5 splitter) and connector to wire to the 5V.

    #98 6 years ago

    Yay my PIG arrived today! Now I can hook up my Light Cycles to my Tron Pro.

    Thanks Mike.

    Doh it wasn't my PIG, I forgot I ordered something else. :\

    1 month later
    #99 6 years ago

    Hello. Hoping someone on here has some insight for me. I want the light cycle bikes to be on all the time. Id like to wire them to the 5v in the front of the cabinet. Has anyone here done this, and if so is the 5v safe to run these bikes on constant? I know some people here were wiring them to the tron pro inserts, and i would assume the 6.3v ac would burn them out over time. Will they last on the 5v?

    #100 6 years ago
    Quoted from drummerweene:

    Hello. Hoping someone on here has some insight for me. I want the light cycle bikes to be on all the time. Id like to wire them to the 5v in the front of the cabinet. Has anyone here done this, and if so is the 5v safe to run these bikes on constant? I know some people here were wiring them to the tron pro inserts, and i would assume the 6.3v ac would burn them out over time. Will they last on the 5v?

    Yes that 5Vdc is what feeds the PIG to power the cycles. So that source is the perfect place. They are 4.5VDC anyway so that .5 v isn't going to be a problem. The pro inserts will burn them out.

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