(Topic ID: 97848)

Triple Action- Cycle keeps repeating before kicking out new ball


By Leosac

5 years ago



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  • 17 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Pin-it
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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A Triple action help.JPG

#1 5 years ago

Sometimes when starting a new game and almost always after a ball drains, the cycle to start the next ball runs and runs. Eventually kicks out the ball into the shooter and next ball starts.

I am a newbie and have next to no technical know how. Any thoughts on how to get this fixed are greatly appreciated. But please, keep it as simple and elementary as possible.

Thanks so much in advance.

#2 5 years ago

hi there ok the first thing we need you to do is report all the things that happened on the playfield while the score motor is running on. There are a few switches that can make the SCR motor run on. See if the bonus unit is getting back to zero position by looking at the pf after the ball drains.

Welcome to pinside, we will get this sorted for you.
I'm away just now using my auto correct phone, fun, not.

#3 5 years ago

Hey Chris.

Hi Leosac,your in luck as the manual /schematic are available on Ipdb.

Here>> http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=triple+action&sortby=name&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick#2648

Ok ,funny i am troubleshooting the same thing plus more on a Williams Expo i just got, , anyway what you need to do is follow the path from outhole switch (the bottom of the playfield via the outhole relay to the ball release coil for the ball to be shot in to play.

Quoted from Chrisbee:

There are a few switches that can make the SCR motor run on. See if the bonus unit is getting back to zero position by looking at the pf after the ball drains.

Thats what i am thinking too Chris ^^that the zero switch may be dirty or just a bit off ,the outhole relay , switch itself or score motor switch.

Ok,Leosac are you familiar with the layout of a Em pinball. Not sure how experienced you are so until we know where you stand we will take it easy on giving too much info at once.
See here for details for what & how they work>> http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1.htm

Starting at section 1 is a basic instruction and understanding of an EM pinball machine and of the components are as a guide to help understand how they operate.

Upon startup the game resets, the ball is in the outhole sitting and waiting for the outhole relay to energize through a series of steps.
One of them is as the bonus steps down(it should light inserts on its countdown) and through a make and break at the Score motor and other zero positions it will allow a path to complete the circuit at the time that the current can flow to finish its outhole relay activation and allowing the ball release solenoid to activate to launch the ball to the shooter lane.
One of these steps is not correctly doing its final current path. From what you are describing is sounds like it could be the bonus zero switch is the one to look for on how its behaving.

Under the playfield itself is where you will look for the Bonus unit (Advance unit disc).
Scrolling to section 2d here >>
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps

You will see a Williams Bonus unit (called the Advance unit disc in the Triple action manual pdf page 16) that should look very much like yours,and on the right side of the rotating gear is a peg that separates the leaf switches that we are looking for,watch carefully how they open and close with game off and pressing the increment coil and the decrement coil, look at the gap of the leafs at the end of travel (decrement coil) and see how the contact is operating,as it may be just a clean or adjustment to get it to work proper.

You can do this live with the game reset and closing the outhole switch (use a plastic knife to press it if you feel uncomfortable around circuits) and press the contacts closed watching it decrement down till its zero switch opens. At that point it should step up once all while activating the outhole relay/ball release solenoid.
Someone had some closeup photos of this switching in operation.
Lets start with that first to see where you stand.

Post edited by Pin-it: Clarification called advance unit disc

#4 5 years ago

These are snips from the manual /schematic to show the path at fault.

A A Triple action help.JPG

B B.JPG

From the manual^^
C 1.JPG

D 2.JPG

E 3.JPG

F 4.JPG

G 5.JPG

#5 5 years ago

First of all, thanks for the replies.

I am a beginner in the true sense of the word. This is my first pin and I have very little understanding of how to read the schematics or the terminologies in play.

Secondly, to answer the question of what is happening on the playfield...ball plays, drains, bonuses for the most part score and then the repeated clicking/resetting sounds take place with the lights on the playfield continually resetting as if a new ball is about to be put in play. Eventually, the new ball does kick out and play begins without further issue.

I will review your advice to date and see if I can make a go of it. Based on my description above does this advice still seem like the way to go?

#6 5 years ago

This advice looks very solid for what you describe. Take some time and patience, examine all the switches listed by pin-it, and ask a lot more questions as you learn and go if you still don't get it.

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from Leosac:

I am a beginner in the true sense of the word. This is my first pin and I have very little understanding of how to read the schematics or the terminologies in play.

Here is a link that has more info to help you in addition to the pinrepair link i posted earlier.
>> http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair << With good photos.
This one was just posted the other day too >>
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/russel-jensen-pinball-troubleshooting-guide#post-1793988

Quoted from Leosac:

Secondly, to answer the question of what is happening on the playfield...ball plays, drains, bonuses for the most part score and then the repeated clicking/resetting sounds take place with the lights on the playfield continually resetting as if a new ball is about to be put in play. Eventually, the new ball does kick out and play begins without further issue.

When starting a new game does it kick over the ball normal,without multiple attempts?
On your bonus countdown is it smooth or jumpy when the ball drains?
From the manual /schematic thats the circuit of issue,an understanding of the components and location is essential to repair a pinball,dont be discouraged it will take a bit of time to figure some stuff out but we can fix it ,best read the links to help digest the basics.

To be sure we are looking at the right part is it possible to upload a Hq photo of the unit itself?
That would give us a better understanding of whats going on,or better yet maybe upload a video to You tube with the link showing the problem?

#8 5 years ago

When starting a new game it does not ALWAYS start cleanly. More often than not the problem exists when starting as well but not always.

When calculating scoring I've never noticed anything but smooth scoring. I'll have to watch more carefully and see if UI notice anything now that you have mentioned it. I will try and post a video later this evening.

#9 5 years ago

My guess here is the bonus unit is not zeroing every time, but cant help much more till i'm home with a real PC. sso keep playing and observe as much as you can. a pattern may be come obvious.
Thanks Kevin for such a huge post. (Pin-It)
Just got from a few Budweiserzz

#10 5 years ago

The bonus/advance unit contacts should look similar to this.

Decremented at its lowest position(the zero position) is what is shown.

See if yours is the same?

IMG_3773 (500x281).jpg

Quoted from Chrisbee:

the bonus unit is not zeroing every time,

That photo ^^ should help him out Chris. Your on Beer i am on Coffee....

wile e and sheepdog.JPG

#11 5 years ago

Hey Leosac just sold a triple strike today silly me, It had the same problem last week and it was the bonus unit which looks like a blank score reel on the right under the play field, The switch on it is a twitchy one and doesnt move far to open close on the zero. I would just lift the playfield with the machine turned off and activate the unit manually through the zero position with the plunger to make sure the middle leaf of the switch touches the bottom leaf and then reopens,

#12 5 years ago

I have tried as much as I could follow. The problem still remains.

In hopes that it will help, I have attached two videos (YouTube links) of what is going on. One is the play field at game's start up (looks like this in between balls as well) and one is of the switches and relays under the play field as the problem is taking place.

After a ball plays, bonus scores add up without issue and then this run on cycle begins.

Any new thoughts? Any better video positions I should post?

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from Leosac:

After a ball plays, bonus scores add up without issue and then this run on cycle begins.

On the upper video it does seem like its the bonus unit,see the bottom bonus light up, then go out ,come back on, then out and so on...

If you lift the playfield and look for the bonus unit{should be mounted underneath to the playfield looking like the previous post I put up IMG 3773] and video copy the movement when pressing the outhole contacts counting down the bonus and giving the same issue you get in the other videos.

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from Paja:

Hey Leosac just sold a triple strike today silly me, It had the same problem last week and it was the bonus unit which looks like a blank score reel on the right under the play field, The switch on it is a twitchy one and doesnt move far to open close on the zero. I would just lift the playfield with the machine turned off and activate the unit manually through the zero position with the plunger to make sure the middle leaf of the switch touches the bottom leaf and then reopens,

Triple Action doesn't have the blank score reel steppers like Triple Strike does. It has regular stepper units.

1 month later
#15 5 years ago

amazing how much ive learned from this one link thank you to the hobbiest who put forth the effort and time to help us who are just getting started im having problems with the same machine i do have a schematic trying to work out some of the same problems and a few more i look inside and see the scab wires that have been jumped from one relay to another gonna target the rig jobs and try to fix actual problems one at a time will have some questions hope you will help me as you did the last guy first question where is the best place to order parts and if anyone is in the austin area would love to speak with you

#16 5 years ago

need one a-22 550 relay and yes help me with my parts lingo
and the center of a bumper

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from slyfuchs:

need one a-22 550 relay and yes help me with my parts lingo
and the center of a bumper

No problem → WLL-A22-550 Coil A22-550 $7.50ea from here → http://www.pbresource.com/coilwms.html

And here → http://www.pbresource.com/pfbumpb.htm

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