Trident
Stern Electronics, 1979Quoted from fireball2:If I hook up my cab speaker to the speaker pins, I get no sound and the lower pop bumper fires the knocker.
That is uncharted territory for me. I only use my Wav Trigger through external speakers (a sound bar on top of the head). I would suspect there's a ground incompatibility, but I would have to study schematics to be sure. When you hook the cab speaker up to the Wav Trigger, did you disconnect the speaker entirely from the SB100?
Quoted from DickHamill:When you hook the cab speaker up to the Wav Trigger, did you disconnect the speaker entirely from the SB100?
No, not yet. That was my suspicion too. I was going to try that next. Otherwise I will just get a little sound bar like you.
Thanks again, Cowboy. This is fun even when I hit the wall sometimes... and I'm so close.
Quoted from fireball2:OK, a couple more things. I don't think I'm getting the polyphonic music and fx. I figure i need the firmware up grade to the wav trigger. Is the only way to do that with the addon mini board that connects to those same six pins for a serial connection?
If you haven't reflashed your Wav Trigger, then use this define
#define USE_WAV_TRIGGER
and not this one
//#define USE_WAV_TRIGGER_1p3
Yes, the Wav Trigger is reflashed through the 6-pin serial connection. I use a "SparkFun FTDI Basic Breakout - 5V" to flash my boards.
If you haven't reflashed, and you're compiling with USE_WAV_TRIGGER defined, then you will get polyphonic sounds. The only difference between the two compiler flags is whether the background sounds are flagged as a priority.
Before version 1.3, if you played a sound 32 times concurrently, it would knock out all the other sounds (including background music). So a really quick spinner might clear out the sound queue. To combat that issue, on spinners I stop the last playback of the spinner sound before I start the new one.
And, of course, I just realized that I had a bad definition in the USE_WAV_TRIGGER version up on GitHub, so it wouldn't compile. If you get the latest (Trident2020.ino is the only file I changed just now), it might work better.
I had so screwed up the original .ino messing with the sounds that I had to download and start over, so I ended up getting the newest version by accident. Disconnecting the original wires to the speaker didn't work. I suspect that the little board doesn't have the output to drive that speaker.
I found a pretty good bluetooth speaker setup in a closet that also has a 1/8" input jack. Set that sucker on the coinbox, and...
THIS THING ROCKS! I LOVE the TRIDENT boot voice. Is that you? Nicely done. All the sounds are killer.
Thanks again for all the help and work you've put into this! Can't wait for shows to start up again. This bad boy is gonna blow people's minds. We'll have Tridents going for 10k by Christmas, as the conventional wisdom is on Pinside. 
Wish I still had my Blackjack. You totally fixed my only beefs with the rule set. Such a fun game.
Thanks once again!
When i used a wav trigger on my williams crossfire i used a pair of computer speakers. They get power from their own wall wart and only use the signal from the wav trigger to make sounds.
Quoted from fireball2:THIS THING ROCKS! I LOVE the TRIDENT boot voice. Is that you? Nicely done. All the sounds are killer.
So glad you got it up and running!
Please take a video if you can. I'm interested in seeing if you find any exploitations of the rule set.
Yes, all the voices on Trident are me. If you manage to stack up some of the modes, you might hear some interesting things.
I will take video very soon.
Two more questions.
1. When I tried to comment out the 1p3
//#define USE_WAV_TRIGGER_1p3
I started getting error messages around these when I tried to compile:
soundEffectNum == SOUND_EFFECT_BUMPER_HIT || soundEffectNum == SOUND_EFFECT_ROLLOVER ||
soundEffectNum == SOUND_EFFECT_10PT_SWITCH || SOUND_EFFECT_SPINNER_HIGH ||
SOUND_EFFECT_SPINNER_LOW ) wTrig.trackStop(soundEffectNum);
That these were not declared in this scope. When I put the define 1p3 back in the errors go away.
What does commenting out that section do to the sounds?
2. In the comments of the .ino it says The defines for sound can be used separately or in combination. Does that mean I can use your sounds AND the original beeps at the same time?
So killer, and I will look for exploits. I'm not that good a player, so I will probly just take the glass off and try to stack modes and suchlike. LOL.
Thanks again.
Quoted from fireball2:I started getting error messages around these when I tried to compile:
Yes, that's the thing that I fixed last night and checked in to GitHub. Those lines should read:
#ifndef USE_WAV_TRIGGER_1p3
if ( soundEffectNum == SOUND_EFFECT_LEFT_SPINNER || soundEffectNum == SOUND_EFFECT_RIGHT_SPINNER ) wTrig.trackStop(soundEffectNum);
#endif
wTrig.trackPlayPoly(soundEffectNum);
#endif
You can just substitute these lines or get latest (if you do, you'll have to uncomment USE_WAV_TRIGGER)
The difference between USE_WAV_TRIGGER and USE_WAVE_TRIGGER_1p3 is what I was trying to explain earlier.
Quoted from DickHamill:The only difference between the two compiler flags is whether the background sounds are flagged as a priority.
Before version 1.3, if you played a sound 32 times concurrently, it would knock out all the other sounds (including background music). So a really quick spinner might clear out the sound queue. To combat that issue, on spinners I stop the last playback of the spinner sound before I start the new one.
Suffice to say, reflash the Wav Trigger when you can, but meanwhile use the USE_WAV_TRIGGER define
In some of my implementations, you can use the built-in sound and the Wav Trigger at the same time, but Trident is too big. If you turn on multiple options, the compiler will tell you that the code is too big to fit on the device.
I look forward to a video!
Ok, I think I found a thing. Don't know if it's intentional or a limitation of the size of code. Regarding stacking the modes:
If you start Sharpshooter or Explore the depths first, you can only stack those two. I can't get Feeding frenzy to start if I have started either/both of the other two. If you start Feeding Frenzy first, then you can stack all three.
Also, you can't actually start the next mode until the previous one pays off. You can enable, but you can't start and have multiple modes at once.
Is that correct?
Quoted from DickHamill:In some of my implementations, you can use the built-in sound and the Wav Trigger at the same time, but Trident is too big. If you turn on multiple options, the compiler will tell you that the code is too big to fit on the device.
I actually found that out when I tried !! lol You cut it as close as possible!
Quoted from fireball2:Also, you can't actually start the next mode until the previous one pays off. You can enable, but you can't start and have multiple modes at once.
Is that correct?
It's possible to have any combination of the three modes running at the same time!
Stacking the modes gives you a different soundtrack and doubles or triples the playfield.
One of my favorite things about pinball is discovering the ins and outs of the ruleset, so I'm going to say:
Spoiler Alert - don't continue reading if you'd rather figure out how to stack the modes yourself.
That said, the way to qualify the modes (by default) is to clear the drops twice (sharp shooter), clear the standups once (explore the depths), or hit alternating spinners four times. When you qualify a mode, the machine announces, "Sharp Shooter Qualified" (or whatever), and the lights try to guide you towards the saucer. At this point, the playfield and rules are still active even though you won't get visual confirmation of shots. If you continue to work towards qualifying the other modes, and you achieve the goals above while it's waiting for you to collect the first mode, you'll hear, "Explore the Depths Qualified" or "Feeding Frenzy Qualified." In addition, you'll see that there's a brief flicker of lights near the area for all qualified modes. Once you collect the saucer, all qualified modes will begin.
As soon as you've gotten at least one hit in all modes, and "finished" a mode (i.e. ball is still in play when timer runs out), you'll start the wizard mode, "Deep Blue Sea." In the wizard mode, the saucer collects a jackpot based on all the progress you've made in the three modes. So, you can "complete" a mode with a single hit and time it out, but you're short-changing your jackpot if you do that.
I will be looking for a Trident soon to install this code onto.
Can the code be added to an alltek mpu or only the original board?
Cliff
Quoted from PinballAir:I will be looking for a Trident soon to install this code onto.
Can the code be added to an alltek mpu or only the original board?
Cliff
I'm using an Alltek on other machines (not on Trident), but I think it will run.
Please let me know if you see any issues.
No video yet... just audio!
Episode 71: Oh My! Those New Trident Sounds! More!
I finally got my wav trigger board, and I sounded up my new Trident Project. Sofa King Killer!
Also: Cling Wrap?
Quoted from fireball2:No video yet... just audio!
Episode 71: Oh My! Those New Trident Sounds! More!
I finally got my wav trigger board, and I sounded up my new Trident Project. Sofa King Killer!
Also: Cling Wrap?
https://unclepinball.buzzsprout.com/
Very cool!
So glad you're enjoying the sounds & rules.
The machine has a soundtrack as well. If you check out setting number 15, there are 3 levels of sounds. If you set it to "3", you'll get music as well.
Also, in the podcast demonstration, those modes were being trigger sequentially, and not "stacked." If you want to stack them, you have to qualify more than one before you start. You'll know you've stacked them, because it will say, "Feeding Frenzy And Sharpshooter Starts." Instead of one or the other.
Features
13 - Freeplay (0 - off, 1 - on)
14 - Ball save num seconds
15 - Music level
16 - Tournament scoring
17 - Number of tilt warnings
18 - Award scores (extra balls / credits)
19 - Number of balls
20 - Scrolling scores (for more than 999,999)
21 - Extra ball award (for tournament scoring)
22 - Special award (for tournament scoring)
23 - Dim level
Just played the game of my life on this thing, and actually got to "Mega Stack." It stacks the timers too. I couldn't last 80 something seconds, but I did cash in pretty good. Rolled it and got to see the scrolling displays for 7+figures. So fun and fast and groovy.
Thanks again Dick!
Quoted from fireball2:Just played the game of my life on this thing, and actually got to "Mega Stack." It stacks the timers too. I couldn't last 80 something seconds, but I did cash in pretty good. Rolled it and got to see the scrolling displays for 7+figures. So fun and fast and groovy.
Thanks again Dick!
That's crazy. I've been trying to line up a mega stack for weeks. Good work!
I got lucky a couple of times!
But... I set #15 on the self test switch to 3 for music, but still nothing.
Might I need the latest firmware? Or do I need to still comment out the 1p3 define, which I haven't done yet?
Also, is there a way to tell without the little serial board, which i haven't gotten yet, what firmware the wav trigger is running?
mark
Quoted from fireball2:I got lucky a couple of times!
But... I set #15 on the self test switch to 3 for music, but still nothing.
Might I need the latest firmware? Or do I need to still comment out the 1p3 define, which I haven't done yet?
Also, is there a way to tell without the little serial board, which i haven't gotten yet, what firmware the wav trigger is running?
mark
I believe the lastest "release" version is 1.28, so that's almost certainly what you have.
You're right, without reflashing, you have to use the
#define USE_WAV_TRIGGER
to get music. The 1p3 version will try to use an unimplemented feature.
I'm hoping you can get back into the mega stack on a video.
Hey Dick,
I recorded some video, but couldn't come close to replicating my mega stack, but i did notice that the longer I played, the more I got the one sound taking over until it finished kinda thing you were talking about. It seems to mostly happen with the whooosh kinda sound. I'll hafta go down the sound file list and find it, but... is there a buffer that is filling up or something? The first 20 -30 games or so it almost never happens, but it seems to happen more often after that. When I took the glass of and triggered mega stack by hand, all sounds stopped until I dropped the ball in the saucer and started it. Mebbe I just need to flash my wav trigger and go 1.3.
I'm video every game until I hit MEGA STACK again.
GREAT job with the voices and music and sounds. Beauty "integration" as the kids say. I'ma get me a set of those blue displays for it to complete the underwater theme stylie! ANd now I gotta find a nice backglass. Mebbe a playfield. You've turned this into one of those games I'ma restore and keep forever like the Space Shuttle I've been putting off, but have all the parts for.
And now "Machine Wanted: Trident" ads are showing up around here! d'oh! Look at what you've done.
There will be a lot more converts once I start bringing his bad boi to shows!
Anyway, I just can't stop playing it, and I haven't been like that with a game in awhile.
Thanks once again.
Quoted from fireball2:Anyway, I just can't stop playing it, and I haven't been like that with a game in awhile.
So glad to hear it!
That sound card behavior sounds consistent with the older version. There might be a workaround I could do, but it seems like wasted effort when Jamie has already taken care of it with his 1.3 rev.
That said, since you can reproduce the issue pretty easily, could you test something for me?
In Trident2020.ino, you can search for a function called InitGamePlay. Can you put in the lines below and make the beginning of your function look like this? It might reset the Wav Trigger enough to prevent sample buildup between games. I'm curious to know if that changes anything.
int InitGamePlay() {
#if defined(USE_WAV_TRIGGER) || defined(USE_WAV_TRIGGER_1p3)
wTrig.stopAllTracks();
wTrig.samplerateOffset(0);
#endif
if (DEBUG_MESSAGES) {
Serial.write("Starting game\n\r");
}
Quoted from DickHamill:That said, since you can reproduce the issue pretty easily, could you test something for me?
In Trident2020.ino, you can search for a function called InitGamePlay. Can you put in the lines below and make the beginning of your function look like this? It might reset the Wav Trigger enough to prevent sample buildup between games. I'm curious to know if that changes anything.
On it. I also ordered the serial adapter thing, so's I can reflash.
One thing though; when it happens at the end of a game, it makes this killer little shrill muffled scream thing that lasts after the match spin. I wnatg to record that and use it for something. I'll post that soon too.
I've been playing with the backglass off for ease of adjustment and reprogramming.
Quoted from DickHamill:could you test something for me?
Seems to work way better so far. LOOOVE having Immigrant Song as the Mega Stack Track! So perfect!
Can I leave these lines in after I update my wav trigger?
Quoted from fireball2:Seems to work way better so far. LOOOVE having Immigrant Song as the Mega Stack Track! So perfect!
Can I leave these lines in after I update my wav trigger?
Yes, I'm glad to hear that they work. It's probably a good idea to have them in there. More than likely, I'll add them to the code permanently.
OK, I’m late to this party, that’s for sure, but I’ve just recently heard about this on the Uncle Pinball’s Podcast and am intrigued. I’m trying to wrap my head around how this all works (I’ve read through the Stars thread), and I’m probably about half way there to understanding all of it.
I’ve also been playing with the 
AmokSolderer Arduino Pinball Controller for Williams games, and have had the idea to put some custom sounds on my Pharaoh. Maybe leave some as stock, but replace others with custom sound. That’s more of a complete MPU board replacement, and I’m pretty clear on how to make that happen at this point (just have to actually DO it).
Anyway, if I didn’t want to change any rules on my Bally KISS, but I did want to update the audio package from bleep/bloop to actual music sounds, would this be a good way to accomplish that? Can I redo the sound without re-writing (or re-creating) the rules?
If this turns into a derail, I can move it somewhere else.
Thanks,
Jeff
Quoted from Grangeomatic:Anyway, if I didn’t want to change any rules on my Bally KISS, but I did want to update the audio package from bleep/bloop to actual music sounds, would this be a good way to accomplish that?
There's a good solution out there, but no, it's not this! If you want to update sounds but not rules for a Squawk & Talk game, I think geeteoh already has a board that does that:
With this project, I'm taking over the whole MPU and Halting the 6800 (when the switch is engaged). This allows me to rewrite the rules (as you've seen) and send audio up to a Wav Trigger (or use the original audio). So, to use this board to activate new sounds, you would need to be running code on the Arduino. @geetoh 's board does what you're looking for though. It replaces the S&T and allows you to send the sound calls off to a Wav Trigger as well. It's hanging off the other side of the MPU, getting signals from the PIA instead of sending signals to the PIA.
I haven't played KISS in ages, but if you ever decide you want a cheap way to upgrade the rules, shoot me a message. The programming is not all that difficult and you can do really interesting things. Take a look at my Meteor video if you want to see my latest effort:
Wow will load it up!!! Looks great.
Quoted from DickHamill:There's a good solution out there, but no, it's not this! If you want to update sounds but not rules for a Squawk & Talk game, I think geeteoh already has a board that does that:
With this project, I'm taking over the whole MPU and Halting the 6800 (when the switch is engaged). This allows me to rewrite the rules (as you've seen) and send audio up to a Wav Trigger (or use the original audio). So, to use this board to activate new sounds, you would need to be running code on the Arduino. @geetoh 's board does what you're looking for though. It replaces the S&T and allows you to send the sound calls off to a Wav Trigger as well. It's hanging off the other side of the MPU, getting signals from the PIA instead of sending signals to the PIA.
I haven't played KISS in ages, but if you ever decide you want a cheap way to upgrade the rules, shoot me a message. The programming is not all that difficult and you can do really interesting things. Take a look at my Meteor video if you want to see my latest effort:
Yeah, unfortunately KISS is not a squak and talk game. It has the -50 sound board, and I'm not sure its the same interface as the S&T.
Guess I'll have to figure it out on my own!
Quoted from Grangeomatic:Yeah, unfortunately KISS is not a squak and talk game. It has the -50 sound board, and I'm not sure its the same interface as the S&T.
Guess I'll have to figure it out on my own!
Gotcha - maybe geeteoh will chime in (ha!) on the -50.
If you do decide to go the Arduino/J5 route, it's pretty simple to recreate old rulesets.
Quoted from Grangeomatic:Yeah, unfortunately KISS is not a squak and talk game. It has the -50 sound board, and I'm not sure its the same interface as the S&T.
Guess I'll have to figure it out on my own!
-50 just has 5 bits for a maximum of 31 bit patterns sent to control the sound board. It's a VERY short pulse on them because they're interrupting a momentary solenoid to trigger the sound. (Unless it waits.... that one I'm not sure about - it might.)
The momentary bits are generated from the same bits from pia u11 that controls the solenoids - and the 5th bit is the 7 digit enable from the display connector. They went with what was available to them. (I like the stern approach better where they memory mapped it instead for the sb100 board)
So you'd have to put a scope or something like a data analyzer on the input bits on the -50 board to grab the activation (or disassemble the code to see what activates what). I've no doubt you could rig a wav trigger to play sound effects this way. I tried it with a homebrew sound board back in 2011 on the CPR Lost Vegas project, with a arduino controlled wav board, which worked until the SD card timed out then the sound board was dead. Never got any farther with that because the project has been shelved. I had some cool sound effects going for the game that's for sure.
You could also do it by trial and error on the activation, there's only 31 combinations to worry about. It's not like the Squawk and Talk where it uses 4 bits to activate it, and usually sends 2 nibbles at a time (so harder to figure out what the activation sequence is) - again this is IIRC it's been a long time since I looked at it. The theory of operation for the S&T is in one of the mid 80s manuals, I don't know if I've seen one for the earlier boards.
The -50 board is terrible sounding IMO for a game like Kiss. It doesn't really "fit". I don't mind it for Paragon though.
I don’t want to hijack this thread, so I’ll try not to linger on this too long.
Seems the AS-2518-50 board is just a tone generator, like a piano keyboard that is “played” by the CPU board via the 5 bits like you said. It doesn’t appear to “store” any sequences of notes, but in that regard, I don’t know what the ROM actually does on this board (maybe it determines the shape of the sound?). For example, when I plop the sound board from my Paragon into my KISS, it still plays KISS sounds.
I inspected with a scope and have successfully mimicked the simple control via an arduino and can make it produce one tone at a time, like playing a scale on a piano, based on the 5-bit input, though I only used 4 bits (0001 is the highest tone, 1111 the lowest tone). If I wanted to, I could sit down and write a program to play a little song...boring.
So since the CPU isn’t asking for a specific “sound effect”, but rather creating the actual sounds it wants, I don’t think a WAV trigger is a good solution for this type of game, at least not based on the sound signals, unless I wanted to deconstruct and rewrite the code (which kind of brings us back to the subject of this thread).
Perhaps I could write an arduino program that could “recognize” the sound being played, and trigger something based on that, but I don’t think I want to go down that road.
Ok, let’s get back to the cool things DickHamill did to Trident!
I haven't looked into the exact method the MPU talks to this sound board. But, I don't think it would work to decode the sound command sequence from the MPU to call up a custom sound on a MP3/WAV player. The problem is that this type of machine plays tones. Each tone is called one at a time from the MPU. Waiting to decode the tones would cause a huge delay in playing the custom sound. For example. hitting a target could cause the MPU to send three tones over a one second sequence. Your MP3/WAV player would wait a full second after the target was hit for it to play it's custom sound. It wouldn't know the target was hit until the 3rd tone command was sent.
OK I finally got some video of Dick's fine mods in action. You can see/hear:
-the tilt warning squeal
-my lame pinball skillz
-me qualifying Explore the Depths (stand ups) and Sharpshooter (drops) and then
-me starting the two stacked modes
-the weird sound issue after a buncha plays because I haven't reflashed my wav trigger yet
-me promptly draining after activating the stacked modes
-me expressing disgust at my pinball skills
-Dick announcing "Player One Up"
Quoted from fireball2:-me qualifying Explore the Depths (stand ups) and Sharpshooter (drops) and then
-me starting the two stacked modes
Nicely done! Great save for a warning too.
Love the video, thanks for posting!
Quoted from fireball2:the weird sound issue
That almost sounded like the card dropped out for the amount of time it would have taken to say, "Explore the Depths Qualified."
I wonder...
Have you reflashed now? Has that problem gone away? I can't remember if we talked about that...
Quoted from ltd73:I stumbled upon this post before I picked up a Trident this week. Ordered the Roy G and Aduino immediately. Thank you in advance for doing the work, look forward to making it happen!
[quoted image][quoted image]
That's a great looking Trident! Is that cabinet black?
Please post a video when you get it running!
Quoted from DickHamill:That's a great looking Trident! Is that cabinet black?
Please post a video when you get it running!
It is blue..
20210320_214916 (resized).jpgQuoted from ltd73:It is blue..
Of course--same as mine. Must have been the light.
Quoted from ltd73:I am also hoping to do something with my Nitro Ground Shaker, if I can figure it out on Trident. I also have a Night Rider project, is that a possibility too?
Nitro Ground Shaker and Night Rider use a -35 and -17, right? They can definitely be rewritten if so. Let me know if you have questions about how the code works.
Quoted from DickHamill:Of course--same as mine. Must have been the light.
Nitro Ground Shaker and Night Rider use a -35 and -17, right? They can definitely be rewritten if so. Let me know if you have questions about how the code works.
Yes, NGS is 35, wasn't sure Night Rider with the 17 would work, I have had some hopes to do some audio for both of them, hopefully I can get some of the projects I've need to get done finished and sold so I can get on this. Will the RoyG Boards work for it? Want to order them if they do...
Quoted from ltd73:Yes, NGS is 35, wasn't sure Night Rider with the 17 would work, I have had some hopes to do some audio for both of them, hopefully I can get some of the projects I've need to get done finished and sold so I can get on this. Will the RoyG Boards work for it? Want to order them if they do...
Yes, they will work, thanks for the mention.
Quoted from crlush:I have been working on a beat up Trident and found its actually a pretty fun game, just stumbled on this thred and will have to figure out how to add this to my game. Man you did a great job on adding new life to an old game!
Thanks!
Quoted from Leftshoe:Will this mod work with an Alltek MPU board (on Trident)?
Yes. With the Alltek’s 34 pin J5, you won’t need a jumper to R134.
Quoted from DickHamill:Yes. With the Alltek’s 34 pin J5, you won’t need a jumper to R134.
Awesome. Looking forward to revamped Trident action, and re-doing sounds on my Mata Hari/Lady Death!
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Topsham, ME
Sherwood Park, AB