(Topic ID: 77465)

Tri-Zone special coil locked on (right kicker)

By Pin-up

10 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 12 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by Pin-up
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#1 10 years ago

This one is getting frustrating, but maybe I'm not looking at something right.

This one started out with some play field lights coming on at power up and that was it. At this point, only the right kicker is stuck on, and one row of lamps (row 3 in this games case) is locked on. I haven't looked at the lamp issue yet, because I'm more concerned about the locked coil.

All connectors on the boards have been re-flown with new solder and the pins were cleaned off and shined up with a wire brush on the Dremel tool for a nice sharp "new" look free from oxidation. And we came up in diagnostic mode, with all displays on and functional.

No switches are stuck on in diagnostic mode, all displays work properly, and we can start up a game, but what's that smell?

There were 4 coils not working. 2 coils were non functional and 2 were locked on, so I replaced 4 sets of driver/pre-driver transistors on the driver board, turned the game back on, and it's down to 2 coils locked on. I removed the resistor and capacitor from the one locked on pop bumper (needed just to give it a little extra "pop" but not to function correctly) and the pop bumper works now. Replaced the shorted resistor and added a new cap and its good to go. One coil left that is locked on (right kicker). Try the resistor/cap route again, no change. I replaced the 2 7402's at IC8 and IC9, no change. I replaced the 2 7408's at IC6 and IC7, no change. I replaced the PIA at IC5, no change. I replaced the PIA at IC11, no change. I went back and replaced the driver/pre-driver again just in case something had happened in the split second that the machine was on to see if the coil was locked on still, no change.

What else is there? I have thoroughly examined both stand up switches and all connection points of wires and connectors for the circuit and I haven't found any broken/loose/cracked wires anywhere and the switches are clearly not touching to keep it locked on either.

The special coils are also controlled by the mpu board correct? So, could it be something on the mpu? I don't know what else to look for on the driver board.......

This seems to be a real fun game to play, even without background sound. I unplugged the wire for the right kicker so I could actually play the game with out the right kicker locked on. Once I got the drop targets cleaned and functional again it's playing fast and smooth. There were 2 small spots of wear on each drop target board so I added a little pad of solder onto each one and buffed it down smooth so they would make proper connection and drop/reset smoothly. Everything scores correctly and the game steps through all functions properly at this point.

But that damn right kicker is killing me!

Thanks!
Kevin

#2 10 years ago

I would make the next step checking wires for shorts and continuity from play field to back box.

#3 10 years ago

Did you check the RC pair on the sling switch to make sure it was not shorting?

viperrwk

#4 10 years ago

Viper:
Thanks for the suggestion Viper, but I've already removed the resistor/capacitor on the sling with no change.

Wolf:
For shorts to the back box, should I just look into the grounds? Obviously it's getting power since it's energized... it just needs to return back to the mpu to complete the circuit, and not be held high right? The way I understand it, the special coils have 2 triggers, one from the mpu in test mode and one from the driver board during game play, so if the circuit isn't completed at power up, it's just going to hold the signal high and be energized. Is that right?

Kevin

#5 10 years ago

That logic sounds right. I would start with the game play circuit.

#6 10 years ago

Only other thing i can think of is a solder splash on the PCB or the wiring is shorted against something.

Time to get a logic probe and trace from the pia through the logic gates, through both transistors and see where the signal is getting stuck at.

#7 10 years ago

The solder splash is a good posability, same thing happened to me a while back, on the power cpu. Drove me crazy for 3 months. It was loose on one side making the problem hit and miss.

#8 10 years ago

I was going to look in to the possibility of wire shorts, but my meter isn't working right. When I opened it up there is a burnt resistor..... not sure how that one happened!

So, after I replace that I'll look in to shorted wires and solder splashes and report back.

I did just re-flow all the connectors so it's certainly a possibility.

#9 10 years ago

All of the wiring checks out good in the circuit from the driver board to the play field and back again from both the coil and the 2 stand up switches associated with the right kicker. I went ahead and looked in to the row/column of switches diodes again just to make sure, and those all checked out good as well. After a couple hours of all that poking around, I took my Flash driver board out and put it in the Tri-Zone. I normally hate doing that unless I just have an extra working one around, since I don't want to have a game down that I've already got up and running.

The Tri-Zone is working perfect now with the other driver board. There is just something I'm missing on that board that has to do with that special coil. Maybe one of the chips I put in has the same issue as the one that was there.... ugh..

I looked for solder blobs and trace scratches/cuts and didn't see anything on the driver board.

Next thing to do would be to get a logic probe and work through the circuit to find out where the issue is right?

Any advice on a good logic probe, or where to start working through on that one? It's special coil #5, 21 overall, and pin 8 at the driver board connector, the straight to the driver, then pre driver, then 7402, then 7408, then PIA, right?

Could the resistors by the coil driver/predriver have anything to do with the issue?

At least I know it's strictly a driver board issue now....

#10 10 years ago

Well it's good to see you've isolated the problem. Unfortunately, I'm not gonna be much help from here out. When it comes to boards, all I can do is a few simple tests like trans and diodes, then start guessing. You need someone like barakandl, he's right on top of the board thing.

#11 10 years ago

Here we go. Board removed

DMM on diode test. Red lead on ground. Black lead probe....

IC7 Pins 11,12,13. All should have a standard voltage drop of .4v to .6v (compare to others if you are unsure)
IC9 Pins 4, 5, 6. All should have a standard voltage drop of .4v to .6v

q10 with diode test on your DMM.
Black lead on center leg, red lead probe both outside pins. .4v to .6v

q9 with dopde test on your DMM
red lead on center pin, black lead probe the outside pins. .4 to .6v on one leg and i think 1.0 on the other leg. Compare it to other similar 2n4401 transistors. They all should read the same.

Checking all that will find a solenoid driver circuit problem 95% of the time. To fully test the PIA you need the test rom and logic probe.

The resistors on the driver board associated with a solenoid will burn up fast if a coil sticks on. I think it is 560 ohm or some weird value like that. Check the schematic. Use half watt or larger if replacing it.

Let me know what you find.

2 weeks later
#12 10 years ago

I know it's been a minute, but I'll get on to that.

Thanks for all the suggestions and I'll let you know what I come up with on the board.

I've got 4 driver boards that all need work right now, to get figured out.

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